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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:

The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12.

Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL")

Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR)

Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities.

The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle.

Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment.

The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5).

Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle"

The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more.

In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04.

In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands.
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* * * * * * * * * *

The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention!

Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW.

The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution.

- Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets]

- Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis)

LOWER
Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
  • Lower: M16A1 pattern [Nodak Spud NDSA1 or 80% re-profiled/finished/engraved]
  • Trigger: Knight's 2-Stage Full Auto Match Trigger or Geissele SSF [KAC semi-auto Match or Geissele SSA/SSA-E]
  • Grip: A1, A2, ERGO Original
  • Stock: Originally issued with A1 stocks, both solid D and trapdoor E types; as A1 stocks dwindled, A2 were used; ModH rifles rebuilt with Ace SOCOM stocks
  • Small parts: Standard M16A1 parts

UPPER
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other.


Early SPR/Mod0
  • Upper: Colt, Diemaco, or Armalite marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Douglas 416r SS, 18" SPR contour, 1/7 twist, flats milled for PRi FSB (Compass Lake, Centurion Arms, High Caliber Sales, and PRi can all supply barrels that meet the appropriate spec minus FSB flats)
  • BCG: Colt M-16
  • Handguard: Precision Reflex Gen I carbon fiber free-float Handguard, rifle length (identified by button-head screws and one vent hole near barrel nut on lower half; no heat shields)
  • A.R.M.S. #38 SPR MOD Sleeve (either the PEQ version or with uneven spacing on the front  but not the full 1913 railed version)
  • FSB: PRi early folding front sight base and gas manifold, set-screw, with elevation wheel
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle device: OPS Inc 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Rear iron sight: A.R.M.S. #40
  • Scope rings: A.R.M.S. #22 Medium rings, #22 Tactical Ring Cap and #22 Tactical Ring Rail (rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.)
  • Optic: Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm LR, M3 turrets, illuminated Mil-Dot reticle (use .308 turret) [Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x40 LR, M3 turrets, Illuminated Mil-Dot reticle]
  • Bipod: Versa-Pod with A.R.M.S. #42, or a Harris with A.R.M.S. #32 (Versa-Pod far inferior to Harris)
Late Mod0
  • Upper: Colt or Diemaco marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Douglas 416r SS, 18" SPR contour, 1/7 twist, flats milled for PRi FSB (Compass Lake, Centurion Arms, High Caliber Sales, and PRi can all supply barrels that meet the appropriate spec minus FSB flats)
  • BCG: Colt M-16.
  • Handguard: Precision Reflex Gen III carbon fiber free-float handguard, rifle length
  • A.R.M.S. #38 SPR-PEQ-2-3 Sleeve
  • FSB: PRi folding FSB, set-screw, .750 (original production had PRi's full address engraved on sight tower; those engraved with "PRi USA" are later manufacture)
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle device: OPS Inc. 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Rear iron sight: A.R.M.S. #40
  • Scope Rings: A.R.M.S. #22 Medium rings (rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.)
  • Optic: Leupold 3-9x36mm TS-30, Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36mm TS-30A2, M2 turrets with Mk262 BDC, illuminated TMR reticle
  • Bipod: Harris with either A.R.M.S. #32 or KAC RAS bipod adapter
SPR/A, SPR/B, Mod1
  • Upper: Colt or Diemaco marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Douglas 416r SS, 18" SPR contour, 1/7 twist, flats milled for PRi FSB (Compass Lake, Centurion Arms, High Caliber Sales, and PRi can all supply barrels that meet the appropriate spec minus FSB flats)
  • BCG: Colt M-16
  • Handguard: Knight's Armament M4 Match FF RAS, rifle length (now called the SR15/16 Match FF RAS)
  • Gas block: NSWC Crane pattern (Badger Ordnance parkerized/NSN version is correct, has open front of gas tube hole)
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle device: OPS Inc. 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Scope rings: A.R.M.S. #22 High rings (A.R.M.S. rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.)
  • Optic: Leupold Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36mm TS-30A2, M2 turrets with Mk262 BDC, illuminated TMR reticle or NightForce 2.5-10x24 (optionally with NightForce rings)
  • Bipod: Harris with KAC RAS bipod adapter (BRM-S, A.R.M.S. #32 could still optionally be used)

ModH, Mod "Holland"

  • Upper: Colt or Diemaco marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Noveske 16" Recon, mid-length gas system, profiled for OPS Inc. 12th Model brake/collar (will require aftermarket contouring of most barrels)
  • BCG: Colt M-16
  • Handguard: Precision Reflex Gen III carbon fiber free-float handguard, FDE, rifle length
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle Device: OPS. Inc. 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Scope Rings: A.R.M.S. #22 Medium rings on PRi recce rail (rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.) or LaRue LT-104 SPR mount
  • Optic: Leupold 3-9x36mm TS-30, Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36mm TS-30A2, M2 turrets with Mk262 BDC, illuminated TMR reticle, Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm LR, M3 turrets, illuminated Mil-Dot reticle (use .308 turret) [Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x40mm LR, M3 turrets, illuminated Mil-Dot reticle]; S&B Short-Dot
  • Bipod: Harris with either A.R.M.S. #32 or KAC RAS bipod adapter
  • Iron sights: (apparently PRI were supplied but never used)

In the Wild
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen:

Early SPR/Mod0:
Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on.

Mod1:
One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s.

ModH:
The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection.

Parts Alternatives for Clone Building
Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone.

Barrel:
Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone.

Optics & Rings:
In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings.

A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve:
The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds.

FSB:
While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves.

Suppressor, Brake/Collar:
Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes.

As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all.

* * * * * * * * * *

Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers
Bravo Company Manufacturing
High Caliber Sales
Precision Reflex Inc.

Specific Mk12 Tech
Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136
KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137
Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357
Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449
tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 5:11:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


that thing needs an LT-104 and paint !

Click To View Spoiler
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 5:12:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Other than "C AF" and Armalite, have any other forge codes been seen on a late Mod 0?
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By TheShlouf:


that thing needs an LT-104 and paint !

Click To View Spoiler
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Thats what I started it off of but I'll never run an lt-104. I'd like to move to an atacr some day.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 6:26:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 7:12:17 PM EDT
[#5]
So, I’m trying to decide here, I have a original deployment case and the Crane sticker is or has seen far better days. I’m wondering should I leave it as is or replace it with the reproduction I have combing?
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 7:13:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mstennes:
So, I'm trying to decide here, I have a original deployment case and the Crane sticker is or has seen far better days. I'm wondering should I leave it as is or replace it with the reproduction I have combing?
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/85971/8A3A71F7-D8EC-465F-A179-BA3143F20FC7-2244066.jpg
View Quote
Leave it as is.  That's history right there.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 7:22:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Leave it as is.  That's history right there.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Originally Posted By mstennes:
So, I'm trying to decide here, I have a original deployment case and the Crane sticker is or has seen far better days. I'm wondering should I leave it as is or replace it with the reproduction I have combing?
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/85971/8A3A71F7-D8EC-465F-A179-BA3143F20FC7-2244066.jpg
Leave it as is.  That's history right there.


100% This!
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 8:08:22 PM EDT
[#8]
A few more, I feel like selling it and focusing all my efforts on the reproduction one I’m dining with Ringers foam,, cleaning rod, bore guide and document's. I have another case I stole the info and then at least I could match the serial numbers and I have the pictures of the original to position and mark correctly.








Link Posted: 1/17/2022 8:11:43 PM EDT
[#9]
@ringer706
Did copies of these stickers get made?
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 8:31:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Other than "C AF" and Armalite, have any other forge codes been seen on a late Mod 0?
View Quote


All I’ve seen on late Mod 0s have been C AF and Diemaco splintered A, although an ArmaLite wouldn’t surprise me given their use with the others.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 8:41:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mstennes] [#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hunterex:


All I’ve seen on late Mod 0s have been C AF and Diemaco splintered A, although an ArmaLite wouldn’t surprise me given their use with the others.
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Originally Posted By Hunterex:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Other than "C AF" and Armalite, have any other forge codes been seen on a late Mod 0?


All I’ve seen on late Mod 0s have been C AF and Diemaco splintered A, although an ArmaLite wouldn’t surprise me given their use with the others.

I did a Diemaco keyhole on my late MOD0. I screwed up though as after I redid it with the Diemaco I came across a NOS raised C AF that was grey verse the newer black, it was marked M4 and had feed ramps but I wasn’t going to tear it down again so now it’s on a s Block 2 that I am turning into a early Block 2.
Link Posted: 1/17/2022 11:03:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mstennes:

I did a Diemaco keyhole on my late MOD0. I screwed up though as after I redid it with the Diemaco I came across a NOS raised C AF that was grey verse the newer black, it was marked M4 and had feed ramps but I wasn't going to tear it down again so now it's on a s Block 2 that I am turning into a early Block 2.
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Originally Posted By mstennes:
Originally Posted By Hunterex:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Other than "C AF" and Armalite, have any other forge codes been seen on a late Mod 0?


All I've seen on late Mod 0s have been C AF and Diemaco splintered A, although an ArmaLite wouldn't surprise me given their use with the others.

I did a Diemaco keyhole on my late MOD0. I screwed up though as after I redid it with the Diemaco I came across a NOS raised C AF that was grey verse the newer black, it was marked M4 and had feed ramps but I wasn't going to tear it down again so now it's on a s Block 2 that I am turning into a early Block 2.
Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 12:34:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ringer706] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mstennes:
@ringer706
Did copies of these stickers get made?
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/85971/132FADD9-0B67-4D69-8015-B652A6840B62-2244169.jpg
View Quote


Negative, so far the only sticker I've made is the same SPR case label that SamsonDogg originally did a while back. I have plans to do the later Mod 0 and Mod 1 case labels when I can get around to it, but I've been up to my eyeballs gluing up foam and filling the rest of the orders I've gotten. And then there's the batch of 5 surplus Mk12 cases I've been working on, and the Mk13 kits.

By the way, just shy of 50 cases have been shipped from the pre-order. Dropped off a lot of them today at UPS so check your tracking info in the morning and it should give you an ETA. Just 18 left to assemble and pack and then I'm totally caught up. I'm getting tested in the morning for the big 'rona though so this week may be slow. Either way, should be all caught up within a week or so. There's still about 15-20 cases available if anyone's still on the fence.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 12:46:33 AM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By CMCctx:

@Tactical_Bucket that's a Smith Enterprise Vortex Ops Inc thread protector
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Originally Posted By CMCctx:

@Tactical_Bucket that's a Smith Enterprise Vortex Ops Inc thread protector


That's it thank you!

As for the ballisticards Lou from Ballistcard Systems finally got back to me and offered these, here's his email to me:
Here’s pics of the two models I have. One is in meters and the other in yds.
Price is $23.95 each includes duplicate back-up card plus $2.50 H&S. The $2.50 covers postage for 1 set or multiple sets if you want to order more than 1 model.
I also have some cards for 308/175 and 308/168 for Federal, Black Hills and I also have for the Military 308/175 M-118 LR ammo.
Thanks, Lou Schwiebert / Ballisticards


Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File


I asked him if there's any way for him to make a branded dead accurate version and I did not get any response. He sent his phone number which I've removed for obvious reasons, Ill see if I can text him and get a response.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 1:28:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Hey you made it farther than I did. I tried reaching Lou but spoke with US tactical supply who said that the cards were in the works to be remade.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 8:28:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Can I get some help locating an A2 stock sling adapter from specter. I feel like an idiot, either it's there on the site and I am or it's not and I need guidance on how to snag one. Any other options out there worth ashit? I see BFG has a couple.. idk if they look that great though
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 8:50:47 AM EDT
[#17]
It is no longer at the site, it used to be there in the sling accessories, my recon sling came with it, Recon M16 front swivel model.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 9:06:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: UndrGrndPrdcts] [#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ringer706:


Negative, so far the only sticker I've made is the same SPR case label that SamsonDogg originally did a while back. I have plans to do the later Mod 0 and Mod 1 case labels when I can get around to it, but I've been up to my eyeballs gluing up foam and filling the rest of the orders I've gotten. And then there's the batch of 5 surplus Mk12 cases I've been working on, and the Mk13 kits.

By the way, just shy of 50 cases have been shipped from the pre-order. Dropped off a lot of them today at UPS so check your tracking info in the morning and it should give you an ETA. Just 18 left to assemble and pack and then I'm totally caught up. I'm getting tested in the morning for the big 'rona though so this week may be slow. Either way, should be all caught up within a week or so. There's still about 15-20 cases available if anyone's still on the fence.
View Quote


Are you saying you have deployment cases for sale? I'll admit I haven't regularly followed this thread until now.

@ringer706
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 10:32:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Thats what I started it off of but I'll never run an lt-104. I'd like to move to an atacr some day.
View Quote
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 10:33:28 AM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Thats what I started it off of but I'll never run an lt-104. I'd like to move to an atacr some day.
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster

No doubt plus I hate vertically split rings.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket:
Can I get some help locating an A2 stock sling adapter from specter. I feel like an idiot, either it's there on the site and I am or it's not and I need guidance on how to snag one. Any other options out there worth ashit? I see BFG has a couple.. idk if they look that great though
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What color you after?  I have a spare ODG one.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 11:52:14 AM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster
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Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Thats what I started it off of but I'll never run an lt-104. I'd like to move to an atacr some day.
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster


I must have missed this…any info on why they are so bad?
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 11:53:46 AM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By Gatorvet:


I must have missed this…any info on why they are so bad?
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Originally Posted By Gatorvet:
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Thats what I started it off of but I'll never run an lt-104. I'd like to move to an atacr some day.
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster


I must have missed this…any info on why they are so bad?

Generally a thin flimsy design and also vertically split rings can cause problems with optic internals.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 1:59:42 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:


Are you saying you have deployment cases for sale? I'll admit I haven't regularly followed this thread until now.

@ringer706
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I have a actual deployment case I am thinking about throwing on the EE, but I’m not sure of the value of one? Any ideas? I would also give a heads up here first if I decide to sell. I think I’m going to run the new repro I’m working on thanks to Ringer and all his hard work. This way I can serialize to my my MOD0
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 2:00:41 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Generally a thin flimsy design and also vertically split rings can cause problems with optic internals.
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:
Originally Posted By Gatorvet:
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Thats what I started it off of but I'll never run an lt-104. I'd like to move to an atacr some day.
GOOD. lt-104 was THE WORST unimount ive ever used. id take a burris peper over that pos flexi disaster


I must have missed this…any info on why they are so bad?

Generally a thin flimsy design and also vertically split rings can cause problems with optic internals.

Hmmm interesting and good to know. Looks like I have a few more items for the EE
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 2:11:16 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket:


That's it thank you!

As for the ballisticards Lou from Ballistcard Systems finally got back to me and offered these, here's his email to me:


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525856/image1__1__jpeg-2244528.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525856/image2_jpeg-2244527.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525856/image0__2__jpeg-2244529.JPG

I asked him if there's any way for him to make a branded dead accurate version and I did not get any response. He sent his phone number which I've removed for obvious reasons, Ill see if I can text him and get a response.
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Does anyone find that the dope on these cards is accurate for their gun?  It's way off for me with an 18" Douglas and IMI 77gr Razorcore, can't imagine BH Mk 262 is significantly slower.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 2:25:38 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By BlueDevilBrew:


Does anyone find that the dope on these cards is accurate for their gun?  It's way off for me with an 18" Douglas and IMI 77gr Razorcore, can't imagine BH Mk 262 is significantly slower.
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Idk for sure about the 3-600 numbers but it’s about spot on for my 77TMK load. 100-250 and 600-1000 yards confirmed

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 2:26:28 PM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By mstennes:

I have a actual deployment case I am thinking about throwing on the EE, but I’m not sure of the value of one? Any ideas? I would also give a heads up here first if I decide to sell. I think I’m going to run the new repro I’m working on thanks to Ringer and all his hard work. This way I can serialize to my my MOD0
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I would definitely hang on to it if I was you
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 5:11:51 PM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:


Are you saying you have deployment cases for sale? I'll admit I haven't regularly followed this thread until now.

@ringer706
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Correct, I was able to find a batch of new/unissued surplus cases made in 2004. I've filled them with a repro 22CF-30 cleaning rod, repro bore guide, NOS TAS-1 sling with the original buttstock adapter, a new (unfortunately couldn't find old style) Uncle Mike's sling swivel, 3x 20rd Surefeed magazines, a surplus/issued Harris BRM-S, surplus/issued KAC grip, a surplus/issued tan Otis cleaning kit (NSN 1005-01-448-8513), mildot master and a hang tag/manual/log book. Only thing missing is the ballistic card (which I haven't been able to source) and of course a rifle.

They're not available yet but will be released next Sunday at 5p CST.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 5:49:43 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts:

Generally a thin flimsy design and also vertically split rings can cause problems with optic internals.
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I'm just a lurker on this thread...but yeah...this is the first time I'm hearing anything negative about the LT-104 other than it can scratch your finish off the upper. Interesting.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 7:54:11 PM EDT
[#31]
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Originally Posted By minion42:


I'm just a lurker on this thread...but yeah...this is the first time I'm hearing anything negative about the LT-104 other than it can scratch your finish off the upper. Interesting.
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Same boat. I don’t have one but can you explain the flimsy part vs other mounts? Better recommendations? Is the picture w/ the Larue mount a military guy or Larper?
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 9:44:19 PM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket:


That's it thank you!

As for the ballisticards Lou from Ballistcard Systems finally got back to me and offered these, here's his email to me:


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525856/image1__1__jpeg-2244528.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525856/image2_jpeg-2244527.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525856/image0__2__jpeg-2244529.JPG

I asked him if there's any way for him to make a branded dead accurate version and I did not get any response. He sent his phone number which I've removed for obvious reasons, Ill see if I can text him and get a response.
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Can we just call them up or email or how would I go about jumping onto this?
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 10:03:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Exciting times

Link Posted: 1/18/2022 10:32:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox] [#34]
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Originally Posted By JLAudio:
Exciting times

https://i.imgur.com/WdcWUYB.png
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Cool.  Is that laser etched instead of rollmarked?

Got new contacts today and can't see shit

I'm in either way if the price is right.  Def gonna take a closer look when I can actually see.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 10:56:58 PM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By teamjawbox:


Cool.  Is that laser etched instead of rollmarked?

Got new contacts today and can't see shit

I'm in either way if the price is right.  Def gonna take a closer look when I can actually see.
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Originally Posted By teamjawbox:
Originally Posted By JLAudio:
Exciting times

https://i.imgur.com/WdcWUYB.png


Cool.  Is that laser etched instead of rollmarked?

Got new contacts today and can't see shit

I'm in either way if the price is right.  Def gonna take a closer look when I can actually see.

Looks too even and crisp to be roll-marked. Though I suppose it would be a very fresh stamp that's still nice and sharp.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 11:29:52 PM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:

Looks too even and crisp to be roll-marked. Though I suppose it would be a very fresh stamp that's still nice and sharp.
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I asked that question in the thread about the Nodak acquisition in the Retro forum and was told that they weren't going to rollmark because it was so expensive, at least at this point.
Link Posted: 1/18/2022 11:36:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:

Looks too even and crisp to be roll-marked. Though I suppose it would be a very fresh stamp that's still nice and sharp.
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Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:
Originally Posted By teamjawbox:
Originally Posted By JLAudio:
Exciting times

https://i.imgur.com/WdcWUYB.png


Cool.  Is that laser etched instead of rollmarked?

Got new contacts today and can't see shit

I'm in either way if the price is right.  Def gonna take a closer look when I can actually see.

Looks too even and crisp to be roll-marked. Though I suppose it would be a very fresh stamp that's still nice and sharp.


That was exactly what spurred my question, but wasn't sure if it was just my vision still adjusting to new prescription or what.  I recall a thread where I believe Mike from Nodak (now CEO of H&R I think) said something about how the tooling would be too expensive to justify it, so that combined with what I'm seeing makes me think laser etched.

As long as they aren't charging a premium price like Intl Mill (Russian Paint), who goes to great lengths to ensure every tiny detail is recreated and you're paying a premium for a crazy high-end reproduction, then I'm sure I'll be a customer.  IE., if price for a stripped lower is similar to or in the ballpark price of a Brownells A1 then I'll def be a customer.  

Pretty cool stuff and will be watching to see what all they come out with.  Maybe a H&R single shot . 410?  LOL. Was given one of those for my 12th birthday, still have it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 1:55:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Been lurking this thread for long enough that I thought I should contribute something. Started this project about a year and a half ago but most of it got done in the last two months. Getting close, just need to swap out the short collar...and start looking for all of the more obscure earlier versions of parts to get it as close as possible.



Link Posted: 1/19/2022 3:57:47 AM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By EMSintraining:



Can we just call them up or email or how would I go about jumping onto this?
View Quote


He's very difficult to get in touch with, I think I'll make sure he knows what we want and then put him in touch with ringer so that he can stock them on his website. So far I got him to respond to one text message where he confirmed he can sell the single column black hills branded ballisticards but when I asked him about also getting the deltamax and appendix d cards he went silent again. I've already got an email drafted to ringer so I'll talk to him in the bg and see what he wants to do.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 5:46:28 AM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket:


He's very difficult to get in touch with, I think I'll make sure he knows what we want and then put him in touch with ringer so that he can stock them on his website. So far I got him to respond to one text message where he confirmed he can sell the single column black hills branded ballisticards but when I asked him about also getting the deltamax and appendix d cards he went silent again. I've already got an email drafted to ringer so I'll talk to him in the bg and see what he wants to do.
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I love this niche community.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 8:53:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tactical_Bucket:


He's very difficult to get in touch with, I think I'll make sure he knows what we want and then put him in touch with ringer so that he can stock them on his website. So far I got him to respond to one text message where he confirmed he can sell the single column black hills branded ballisticards but when I asked him about also getting the deltamax and appendix d cards he went silent again. I've already got an email drafted to ringer so I'll talk to him in the bg and see what he wants to do.
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Sounds perfect. I’ll be standing by
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 10:56:38 AM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By Theodoric:
I asked that question in the thread about the Nodak acquisition in the Retro forum and was told that they weren't going to rollmark because it was so expensive, at least at this point.
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Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:

Looks too even and crisp to be roll-marked. Though I suppose it would be a very fresh stamp that's still nice and sharp.
I asked that question in the thread about the Nodak acquisition in the Retro forum and was told that they weren't going to rollmark because it was so expensive, at least at this point.


Your question must have been the one I saw in that thread.  I remember seeing that.  Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 10:58:35 AM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By Svensson:
Been lurking this thread for long enough that I thought I should contribute something. Started this project about a year and a half ago but most of it got done in the last two months. Getting close, just need to swap out the short collar...and start looking for all of the more obscure earlier versions of parts to get it as close as possible.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51829674539_9ed3c03a32_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51829333956_68f82a30dd_b.jpg
View Quote


Hell yea.  Looks great.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 8:34:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for putting these together Ringer. I was happy to find that the big NF fit in there. I have an x24 in the safe but haven't been able to give up the x50.

Link Posted: 1/19/2022 8:55:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Looks great, I picked up mines and I love it, have the same set up but with the 3.5-10x40 m3 and Kac mount and fit is perfect, Thanks Ringer finally someone got it right.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 9:08:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mstennes] [#46]
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Originally Posted By DBrock07:
Thanks for putting these together Ringer. I was happy to find that the big NF fit in there. I have an x24 in the safe but haven't been able to give up the x50.

https://i.imgur.com/NfwyBmq.jpg
View Quote

Looks awesome!! I received my foam today, and I will tell you, I have a original deployment case and Ringers exceptional quality and attention to detail has made my decision to sell it very easy! His foam compared to the original is spot on and is impossible to see the difference, the feel test is your only way. I am beyond impressed and pleased how exceptional these are! The manual, the case sticker and round count booklet look exactly like the originals. I feel like it’s 2004 again. Now for the complaint and it’s not at Ringer, my case is locked in a storage unit here next to my shop and when I went to open it I don’t have the key, now I have to wait until tomorrow to cut the off to gain access. That’s on me though. Did I mention how excellent everything Ringer did? The bore guide, the cleaning rod, the foam, the booklets, the sticker? It’s all amazing and the quality is beyond superb! I am glad I have the original right now so I can duplicate the hand written markings and placement of the case sticker.
Thanks again!
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 9:58:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DBrock07:
Thanks for putting these together Ringer. I was happy to find that the big NF fit in there. I have an x24 in the safe but haven't been able to give up the x50.
View Quote


Thanks for the kind words, glad it seems to be working out for everyone! This was a big project, definitely harder to finish than I thought it would've been at first. I'm happy with the end result though, so I'm glad y'all are too.

To anyone else who's pre-ordered a set of foam and hasn't received tracking info... I expect to have the last batch of cases ship out early next week, and then for anyone who's missed the boat so far, there's a dozen or so sets left if you want to get one.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 10:04:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Also, I'll try to post pics/instructions of this soon, but I did some experimenting with the new production Uncle Mike's sling swivels, the MIM ones that are silvery looking, not the darker gray like the earlier ones. If anyone wants to darken the color up any, they seemed to take pretty well to cold bluing so if you have a set and you want to give it the old school look, it might be worth a try.  The results can be a little splotchy and you have to make sure to follow the directions on the birchwood casey bottle to the T, but depending on preference, it's something to consider. I was thinking about doing it to the sling swivels I'm putting in the surplus cases but I figure for that I'd let the end user decide.
Link Posted: 1/19/2022 11:12:42 PM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By Gatorvet:


Same boat. I don’t have one but can you explain the flimsy part vs other mounts? Better recommendations? Is the picture w/ the Larue mount a military guy or Larper?
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Originally Posted By Gatorvet:
Originally Posted By minion42:


I'm just a lurker on this thread...but yeah...this is the first time I'm hearing anything negative about the LT-104 other than it can scratch your finish off the upper. Interesting.


Same boat. I don’t have one but can you explain the flimsy part vs other mounts? Better recommendations? Is the picture w/ the Larue mount a military guy or Larper?



... That's one of the co-founders of KRG, definitely not a "larper". His deployment photos have been posted in here plenty of times before.

I have seen hi-speed video of an LT-104 before, and there's a lot of flexing going on in there. But at the time, it was one of the best options available for getting good eye relief on a flat-top AR upper. I haven't noticed some of the issues I've seen claimed in here with the mounts, nor the Recce rail, but everyone's going to do what they are convinced is right based on their own observations. Meanwhile others are still shooting issued glass in beat up old ARMS rings, on the early SPR guns where the whole setup is basically held in place by the SPR sleeve, and haven't experienced these issues out at 800+.

At the end of the day it's supposed to be a clone thread.
Link Posted: 1/20/2022 8:05:10 AM EDT
[#50]
My foam gets delivered today, but won't be able to get it till Saturday. The anticipation is getting to me with people starting to post their cases.
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