Are there any free-float carbine rails with integral tactical lights?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are there any free-float carbine rails with integral tactical lights?

Posted: 3/24/2009 7:03:18 PM EDT

Just curious... Been looking for one with little success.

And not... I don't want that gawdawful "ring of fire" thing that I saw in the SHOT pictures... One light, not six.

Posted: 3/24/2009 7:30:32 PM EDT

[#1]

My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

Posted: 3/24/2009 7:42:21 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Posted: 3/24/2009 7:44:34 PM EDT

[#3]

Yeah, I've never seen one and I've seen most of the accessories out there. Also, as was pointed out above, it's a pretty dumb idea. The whole point of a rail system is having the ability to put whatever accessories you want wherever you want them.

Posted: 3/24/2009 8:12:56 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Yeah, I've never seen one and I've seen most of the accessories out there. Also, as was pointed out above, it's a pretty dumb idea. The whole point of a rail system is having the ability to put whatever accessories you want wherever you want them.

... And yet the Surefire M500 is one of the nicest setups I've seen, at least in my hands.

I just want that... Free-floated... What's the problem?

Posted: 3/24/2009 8:14:03 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

Posted: 3/24/2009 8:37:43 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

THIS!?

Doesn't make any sense. Don't want rails but want light, but free-floated?

Posted: 3/24/2009 8:53:02 PM EDT

[#7]

you could run a JP VTAC forend and jsut get a 2" rail section to mount a light.

Posted: 3/24/2009 9:01:12 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

THIS!?

Doesn't make any sense. Don't want rails but want light, but free-floated?

A: Multipurpose platform.
B: I don't like shit that hangs off my rifle... Shit that hang off the rifle gets tangled (wires from light pressure pads as an example... Or ever had a VFG hit something the wrong way?) or breaks (because face it, it'll get smashed into stuff in SHTF... And it isn't aluminum like the tube/rail would be).

I've been doing this for a little while you know, and I currently run a rail setup... I simply don't need half the shit most people hang off their rifle nor do I want anything hanging off at all. Hence why I've looked for this for a while. Would it be so hard to accept that and let me know if you've seen anything like it, rather than question what I'm asking for?

Posted: 3/24/2009 9:18:23 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

Posted: 3/24/2009 10:57:55 PM EDT

[#10]

You can buy free floats which are concealed by the handguards, but I don't know if they come in carbine length.

"Shit hanging off rails" and "getting caught/tanged" usually sounds more like a training issue than a gear problem.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 3/24/2009 11:01:50 PM EDT

[#11]

I want the light in front of the front sight. And on top.

You have to use a free float to do this.

Posted: 3/24/2009 11:05:03 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
You can buy free floats which are concealed by the handguards, but I don't know if they come in carbine length.

"Shit hanging off rails" and "getting caught/tanged" usually sounds more like a training issue than a gear problem.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

When most of the door kickers out there stop using pressure pads because their wires get caught in shit or break, it's probably not a training issue

.

Currently the line of thinking is use a straight mounted light and just use your thumb to hit the button on it... Less likely to have issues than a pressure pad.

I'm taking it to the next level... Eliminate anything that wasn't designed to get beat to shit (and an aluminum free float rail is about the only thing on the front end of an AR truly designed to get beat to shit). Then you don't have to spend time trying to baby your gear when you should be getting stuff done.

Posted: 3/24/2009 11:10:39 PM EDT

[#13]

There is nothing out there that fits your requirements that I have ever seen. I think what people are having a hard time understanding is why not use a rail to mount your light only. You don't have to mount anything else to it. You act as if just because you have left over rail spacer you have to add extras. What you are talking about doing or the light you are wanting is no different than if you used standard FF rail and then just mounted a light. An integrated FF rail with light is going to protrude just like a standard rail with srew mounted light. You may want to consider a Surefire Scout Light as they are very small and SHOULD be less likely to snag during all your high speed stuff.

Posted: 3/24/2009 11:47:02 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
There is nothing out there that fits your requirements that I have ever seen. I think what people are having a hard time understanding is why not use a rail to mount your light only. You don't have to mount anything else to it. You act as if just because you have left over rail spacer you have to add extras. What you are talking about doing or the light you are wanting is no different than if you used standard FF rail and then just mounted a light. An integrated FF rail with light is going to protrude just like a standard rail with srew mounted light. You may want to consider a Surefire Scout Light as they are very small and SHOULD be less likely to snag during all your high speed stuff.

The integral light on the M500 is much more streamlined with few nooks, crannies and sharp angles to catch shit. The light is also better protected. Take a look at one before you pass judgment that it is "the same as a rail with a light mounted to it"... no it ain't. Very different animal.

I also do not need or desire a VFG, lasers wit da beams, M203 grenade launcher, iPod holder or underbarrel espresso machine. I have some use for a low profile bipod but I already have that need squared away without use of goddamn rails.

So again, it comes down to what I want... Light that is more robust and streamlined, bipod, free floating... Nowhere in those needs do I need a single 1913 slot... It's a waste of weight, ergonomics and effort to me.

To each their own, but that's where I am coming from.

Posted: 3/25/2009 12:14:26 AM EDT

[#15]

I have seen and used the Surefire M500 series lights on several carbines and I stick to my last comment about it. If you don't need the extra rail space get rail panel covers. Good luck with your search.

Posted: 3/25/2009 12:18:03 AM EDT

[#16]

Free float for regular handguards

Not carbine, but maybe there's something similar out there?

Posted: 3/25/2009 12:42:28 AM EDT

[#17]

Just make your own?

Posted: 3/25/2009 10:11:31 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Free float for regular handguards

Not carbine, but maybe there's something similar out there?

There is... but the problem with a M500 is that cooling will be nil with a ff tube under the handguards. I considered such a set up when I was a noob in 1999. A FF rail and seperate light will produce as much like as the M500, have better nav options, weigh less, be more reliable, have longer battery life, be way better for cooling, etc.

The M500 is just an outdated piece of gear now. Its like an ARMS SIR, ARMS 40, well... any ARMS product or any incan based Surefire, or chrome lining of barrels, or M193 for defensive ammo, or any number of items that have been passed by due to changes in technology since we hit the 21st century.... And I must say anyone who says a rail and light are prone to snagging has not used a rail and light and had any snagging and are just imagining things vs relating personal experience. They dont snag. An M500 is not more robust than a rail mounted light... its far less robust. I could go on and on but I doubt it will matter. The OP has seen pics of an M500 and by GOD he knows its better than a rail mounted light.

Posted: 3/25/2009 10:20:55 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

You can buy free floats which are concealed by the handguards, but I don't know if they come in carbine length.

"Shit hanging off rails" and "getting caught/tanged" usually sounds more like a training issue than a gear problem.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

When most of the door kickers out there stop using pressure pads because their wires get caught in shit or break, it's probably not a training issue

.

Currently the line of thinking is use a straight mounted light and just use your thumb to hit the button on it... Less likely to have issues than a pressure pad.

I'm taking it to the next level... Eliminate anything that wasn't designed to get beat to shit (and an aluminum free float rail is about the only thing on the front end of an AR truly designed to get beat to shit). Then you don't have to spend time trying to baby your gear when you should be getting stuff done.

"Eliminate anything that wasn't designed to get beat to shit" Like what? What are you worried about babying? Do you have a glass menagerie with larue mounts that you keep attached out there

? The only things I have seen on rails are lights (I can't remember seeing a pressure pad and switch other than on police issue carbines in years), vertical foregrips and sling mounts.

Thinking about it I think you have this assbackwards. Of the things that can break that are mounted on the forearm the light is the most likely thing to break and you are better off having it rail mounted, where you can just swap it off if it breaks, vs. having it integrally built into the rail. Lights don't break often but I guess something like exposure to salt water or extensive use along seashore, like riding around in a vehicle near the ocean day after day, might corrode wires or something.

I did a bunch of classes, carbine shoots and had generally run around with a LaRue battlelight attached, which is kind of like having wine bottle shaped chunk of aluminum attached to your rifle. I never had any problems with it catching on anything. Stuff out there, at least in my experience gets whacked and smashed more than getting tangled up that much

Posted: 3/25/2009 10:23:22 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There is nothing out there that fits your requirements that I have ever seen. I think what people are having a hard time understanding is why not use a rail to mount your light only. You don't have to mount anything else to it. You act as if just because you have left over rail spacer you have to add extras. What you are talking about doing or the light you are wanting is no different than if you used standard FF rail and then just mounted a light. An integrated FF rail with light is going to protrude just like a standard rail with srew mounted light. You may want to consider a Surefire Scout Light as they are very small and SHOULD be less likely to snag during all your high speed stuff.

The integral light on the M500 is much more streamlined with few nooks, crannies and sharp angles to catch shit. The light is also better protected. Take a look at one before you pass judgment that it is "the same as a rail with a light mounted to it"... no it ain't. Very different animal.

I also do not need or desire a VFG, lasers wit da beams, M203 grenade launcher, iPod holder or underbarrel espresso machine. I have some use for a low profile bipod but I already have that need squared away without use of goddamn rails.

So again, it comes down to what I want... Light that is more robust and streamlined, bipod, free floating... Nowhere in those needs do I need a single 1913 slot... It's a waste of weight, ergonomics and effort to me.

To each their own, but that's where I am coming from.

Then just shoot your rifle as is and just hold the flashlight in your mouth. That way you get your freefloat tube and your flashlight and you never have to look at a rail. Or better yet, don't use a flashlight at all and just have your buddy run behind you and light shit up with a spot light. You can also save even more weight by not using bullets at all. Just butt stroke everyone you meet.

Posted: 3/25/2009 10:51:53 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

THIS!?

Doesn't make any sense. Don't want rails but want light, but free-floated?

A: Multipurpose platform.
B: I don't like shit that hangs off my rifle... Shit that hang off the rifle gets tangled (wires from light pressure pads as an example... Or ever had a VFG hit something the wrong way?) or breaks (because face it, it'll get smashed into stuff in SHTF... And it isn't aluminum like the tube/rail would be).

I've been doing this for a little while you know, and I currently run a rail setup... I simply don't need half the shit most people hang off their rifle nor do I want anything hanging off at all. Hence why I've looked for this for a while. Would it be so hard to accept that and let me know if you've seen anything like it, rather than question what I'm asking for?

You might try the YHM customizable fore end. I've got one and like it pretty well. It doesn't have rails on it to start with, but is drilled and tapped where you can attach rails most anywhere you need them. You can attach a rail for a light and not have rails all over the place. It seems relatively sturdy, and it free floats.

Posted: 3/25/2009 10:53:38 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk4.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk1.JPG

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

When my barrel wasn't free floated, I was finding that my POI would shift noticeably when shooting from a bipod versus free standing. I wanted to be able transition between either without moving my POI.

Posted: 3/25/2009 11:07:33 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk4.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk1.JPG

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

When my barrel wasn't free floated, I was finding that my POI would shift noticeably when shooting from a bipod versus free standing. I wanted to be able transition between either without moving my POI.

This doesn't even make sense. Your POI was shifting when using a bipod, but it wasn't when you were standing?

Posted: 3/25/2009 11:26:55 AM EDT

[#24]

Interesting concept...that FF rail with integral light.

Posted: 3/25/2009 11:31:42 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk4.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk1.JPG

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

When my barrel wasn't free floated, I was finding that my POI would shift noticeably when shooting from a bipod versus free standing. I wanted to be able transition between either without moving my POI.

Okay, I can certainly respect that

I own two distinct classes, for lack of a better term, of rifle: tack drivers and defensive weapons. Because of this my standards for accuracy are probably a lot different than a lot of people here. For me, minute-of-chest accuracy to 200m offhand for a defensive weapon is fine. Although each of my carbines is far more accurate than that standard, I never see it-aside from benching them to sight in an optic or a BUIS.

This is why I've always felt that, for me anyway, freefloating a defensive carbine is kind of silly. The vast majority of us who use a 200m carbine in a defensive situation will not be doing so from a stationary position, nor will be providing "stationary overwatch" or sniper cover from such a position. Instead, we will shoot and scoot-so absolute bench rest accuracy will not be a factor.

When I'm shooting for beers or bragging rights, I'm not going to reach for an M500 equipped LE6920-because it's the wrong tool for that particular job. If other people would reach for a defensive carbine to do that job, then I understand their desire to freefloat

Posted: 3/25/2009 11:35:35 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk4.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk1.JPG

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

When my barrel wasn't free floated, I was finding that my POI would shift noticeably when shooting from a bipod versus free standing. I wanted to be able transition between either without moving my POI.

This doesn't even make sense. Your POI was shifting when using a bipod, but it wasn't when you were standing?

No, I think you misunderstand. Shooting from a bipod = one POI. Shooting free standing = a different POI. POI was consistent in both cases, but different based on position. With a FF forearm to mount my bipod to, this is no longer the case.

Posted: 3/25/2009 11:40:59 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk4.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk1.JPG

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

When my barrel wasn't free floated, I was finding that my POI would shift noticeably when shooting from a bipod versus free standing. I wanted to be able transition between either without moving my POI.

Okay, I can certainly respect that

I own two distinct classes, for lack of a better term, of rifle: tack drivers and defensive weapons. Because of this my standards for accuracy are probably a lot different than a lot of people here. For me, minute-of-chest accuracy to 200m offhand for a defensive weapon is fine. Although each of my carbines is far more accurate than that standard, I never see it-aside from benching them to sight in an optic or a BUIS.

This is why I've always felt that, for me anyway, freefloating a defensive carbine is kind of silly. The vast majority of us who use a 200m carbine in a defensive situation will not be doing so from a stationary position, nor will be providing "stationary overwatch" or sniper cover from such a position. Instead, we will shoot and scoot-so absolute bench rest accuracy will not be a factor.

When I'm shooting for beers or bragging rights, I'm not going to reach for an M500 equipped LE6920-because it's the wrong tool for that particular job. If other people would reach for a defensive carbine to do that job, then I understand their desire to freefloat

My AR does double duty. Besides a plinker and target gun, it's also a coyote gun. Under ideal conditions, I can shoot a coyote from a rest or bipod. But, as we know, conditions aren't always ideal and sometimes a free standing shot has to be made. I need my POI to be consistent from either position.

For purely defensive purposes where accuracy isn't a factor, I've got a Mini-14. Why? Because it goes bang with ammo an AR might choke on, it's got fewer parts to break, and it will operate whether it's lubed or not. And despite accuracy criticisms, shooting a torso sized target at 200 yds with it is not difficult.

Hmm. Well, I've gone and done it now. Better get my asbestos....

Posted: 3/25/2009 12:40:46 PM EDT

[#28]

A question about the M500. Is it M4 "Oval" profile, or is it carbine profile? Thanks.

And I don't mind if it isn't free floated.

Posted: 3/25/2009 12:43:32 PM EDT

[#29]

My AR does double duty. Besides a plinker and target gun, it's also a coyote gun. Under ideal conditions, I can shoot a coyote from a rest or bipod. But, as we know, conditions aren't always ideal and sometimes a free standing shot has to be made. I need my POI to be consistent from either position.

For purely defensive purposes where accuracy isn't a factor, I've got a Mini-14. Why? Because it goes bang with ammo an AR might choke on, it's got fewer parts to break, and it will operate whether it's lubed or not. And despite accuracy criticisms, shooting a torso sized target at 200 yds with it is not difficult.

Hmm. Well, I've gone and done it now. Better get my asbestos....

Well shit, I've done that from time to time too

Heck, I can remember arguing with DevL back in 2003-04 about the pros and cons of the M500. He disliked them then too

ETA:

Quoted:
A question about the M500. Is it M4 "Oval" profile, or is it carbine profile? Thanks.

And I don't mind if it isn't free floated.

Oval profile-although it does have a few small flat segments on the top and bottom. I typically throw a bipod stud on mine temporarily for sight-in purposes. In fact, in the pic I posted on page 1 one of those rifles still wears the stud. It has since been removed.

ETAA: Here are some closeups of the flat spots, switches etc:

Posted: 3/25/2009 1:27:18 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My guess is - you won't likely find anything since the very nature of a rail system is to place components where YOU want them, not the manufacturer.

I don't really want a rail even... I just want a free float system with an integral light.

I'm a fan of not-hanging-shit-off-my-rifle... I just need a light. The Surefire M500 would be damned perfect for me... Except it isn't free float.

Why do you want a free-float so bad?

That's exactly what I was wondering. I have M500s on three of my carbines, and the longer version on a 20" rifle. Most of my carbines are 200m defensive weapons.

To each their own of course, but unless you have a match grade barrel for your carbine you aren't going to see much of a difference in accuracy between a FF and non-FF setup-assuming a service grade carbine barrel is what you're looking to freefloat.

Case in point: These two defensive carbines with M500s are not freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG

They are no less accurate than my skunk carbine that is freefloated:
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk4.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Colt_Skunk1.JPG

The barrels in all three carbines pictured are service grade type barrels (Colt and LMT) with 5.56 chambers.

I suppose you could make the argument that a non FF barrel could be torqued when hot to hurt accuracy-but if you're shooting it that hard chances are you aren't going for groups.

When my barrel wasn't free floated, I was finding that my POI would shift noticeably when shooting from a bipod versus free standing. I wanted to be able transition between either without moving my POI.

This doesn't even make sense. Your POI was shifting when using a bipod, but it wasn't when you were standing?

No, I think you misunderstand. Shooting from a bipod = one POI. Shooting free standing = a different POI. POI was consistent in both cases, but different based on position. With a FF forearm to mount my bipod to, this is no longer the case.

AGGHH!! Gotcha, thank you for clearing that up.

Posted: 3/28/2009 9:27:10 PM EDT

[#31]

No. You could try getting a YHM modular free float tube and a Streamlight TLR1. Seems about as close as you can get.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are there any free-float carbine rails with integral tactical lights?

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