I have been reading and hearing alot about the XCR from Robinson, seems they got a good rifle built. I am considering trading a RRA A4 look-alike for a XCR if I can find one local. What do you guys know? Seems like the maintiance would be simpler, but more expensive.
Im probly gona have to streamline my collection in the near future and If I get one It'll be the go-to-gun for a long time. (not talking about any possible bans)

come on guys, I need some advice

An AR cuz it looks cooler.

Keep your AR. You have more readily available parts for it and it's a proven platform.

And what does RRA A4 look-alike mean?

Its not gona be about looks after I give my brother most of my collection. It has to WORK every time.
I suspect the AR platform has a higher accuracy potential becuase of the barrel to bolt interface and the lack of negative harmonics cuased by a piston slamming into anything. But that lack of a piston means it is dirty to shoot.
Come on, some of you guys know something, tell me
The RRA is a Flat-top with FF quad rail from Tonys Custom. It has a YHM folding gas block/sight and comes with a RRA pinned match trigger.
doesnt have optics, just the free standing RRA rear sight.
Oh and an Ergo

If you want an ACR go for it.  There is NO reason to ditch the AR though.

not sure how you define a "long time", but the XCR is a not so common rifle built by a company that may or may not be here in a few years...

cleaning and maintenance of an AR15 is not complicated, i don't understand where this myth came from, probably the same people who wash/wax their car once a yea ror sweep their floors once every few months and wonder why its such a chore, ...

typically when people streamline a collection, they get rid of the odd balls and stick to more standard models and calibers...

if i were streamlining, i would keep things like an AR15, AK47, Remington 700 (.308), Mossberg 500 or Remington 870, Glock 17, 1911... i know that there would always be spare parts, magazines, and ammunition available for these guns...

Well Long term is at least four years, probly more.

And no cleaning an AR isnt complicated, its just nessisary. that bothers me.

And the only way to be able to get in a position to get an XCR would be to liquidate the RRA.
If I get an XCR the first thing is going to be spare bolts and stuff from Robinson.
Those of you who have shot an XCR, what do you think?

Cleaning an AR is not as necessary as you think.  We have run over 4k rounds through them with out a stoppage.

I bought one of the first XCR rifles available.  I've had several ARs and a Sig 556 come and go since buying it, but I've kept the XCR.  It is my "go to" rifle for several reasons.  It is quite accurate for a rifle with an AK type operating system.  Mine will shoot MOA with Privi Partizan 55 grain.  It stays much cleaner inside than my ARs too.  I've pretty much decided that I'll get rid of my ARs before I let the XCR go.  If you get one I highly reccommend replacing the hammer with a modified single stage part though.

Also, I have a friend who is close to Alex Robinson who assures me that there is virtually no chance of Robinson Arms going under.

I went through the same decision process a few months ago.  I like the AR, but the XCR is sexy in a lot of ways.

I eventually opted for the AR... the main reason being the numerous sources of spare parts and accessories for the AR versus being locked into one source of proprietary parts.  Robinson isn't a large company like Glock or S&W and having to rely on them as the sole source of spare parts doesn't sit well with me.

The AR certainly isn't difficult to maintain, nor - contrary to lore - must it be kept spotlessly clean.  However, if you have your heart set on a XCR and want to use "cleanliness" to rationalize your decision, have at it.  I've certainly used rationalization to justify my wants as well... and I'll do it again.

It's nice that Alex Robinson assures us that Robinson is doing well... but, then again, what else would  he say?

Main thing with an AR is keep some lube around

Haven't shot the XCR but I've heard they still have a few things to work out. The AR is the ole trusty, go with that

An AR will go a long time between cleanings as long as it is  frequently well lubed.  I have had the lube completely contaminated/burned off in as little as a few hundred rounds in hot, dry conditions with an AR.  The XCR looks the same inside after a few hundred rounds as it does right after you lube it.  I'm not knocking the AR.  I have a few and love them, but the XCR does have a few advantages.  

BTW - The ability to operate the bolt catch/release with the trigger finger is another advantage it has.

AR...the market is VERY well established and parts are readily available.  Besides...XCR just doens't have that "Black Rifle" look.

Maintainance of an AR is a 5-10 minute task, unless you try to get it 'Basic Training Clean'

For 'easier maintainance' than the AR, you give up widespread aftermarket support, easy access to spare parts, and assured future platform development...

The XCR is simply another attempt to put a modified AK action into a western-style rifle...

I love the XCR, I dislike it's manufacturer.

AR all the way.

I have personally put 3400 rounds through one of my ARs with out adding anything but ammo.  1k of those rounds fired in a single day.  

If you are interested in the XCR, you should also look at some of the piston driven AR's from:

POF
LMT
LWRC
Bushmaster

You can also buy piston built/modded uppers with kits from PWS or Adams Arms. They both look like solid systems (I prefer the looks of the Adams myself).

If you want a "spotless" rifle that requires very minimal maint. or cleaning, check out the POF's as they have the entire upper, BCG, and bolt plated with NP3. Very nice. Supposedly, cleaning them simply involves a wipe down.

I'd stick with an AR platform regardless though... piston or not.

-ZA

The XCR design is tough and simple to maintain.  There's not really much of anything to recommend an AR design over the XCR.  Parts are readily available from Robinson, and overall prices are very much on a par with what you would pay for an AR.

The caliber conversion capability alone sets it apart.  Try it, shoot it, decide for yourself.  If it turns out you don't like it you won't have any problem selling it.  But you won't want to sell it.  ;-)

'An XCR is what the AR wants to be when it grows up.'

OK lets take these one by one.

1) It is a great rifle.   I have owned both so I know.
2) Go to Robarms web site and also xcrforum.com.   More info can be found there.  At Robarm get a hold of either Terra or Allison they will help you find a dealer in you area.
3) Maintenance is alot easier and no it is not more expensive.  You can use the same cleaning materials and tools as with any AR. You can use a basic mil kit with CLP.
4) It will run, run, & run for a long, long time. And with the variety of calibers and barrel lengths. It is also cheaper in the long run.
5) You can add all of you favorite toys to it and still have room left over.

Nothing against the AR, but the XCR just simply do MORE.

I own Colt's and an XCR

I'd rather shoot my XCR.

Plus the value has quickly eroded from the AR15 market. They are near XCR prices without anything the XCR offers.

Not only is the XCR a solid perfomer, but it is easily the best value on the market hands down. The feature to dollar ratio is unmatched.

If you buy an XCR first you pretty much have zero need to get an AR15.

XCR owners generally dont get AR15 envy, but I know plenty of AR15 shooters that want an XCR

Ok first thing,we can debate piston vs D.I all day and if you don't want to change your mind your not going to.I don't see how there can be any debate over the fact that a piston gun does run cleaner.That's easily proven.Wether this matters to you,is for you to decide.In my opinion a weapon that stays  cleaner,especially in the chamber and operating system area will run more reliably for longer periods and does not induce the heat from burnt gases into that chamber area.Heat is hard on the bolt,firing pin springs and ejector springs.The XCR bolt stays much cooler than the AR,thus reducing the possible failure of components due to heat.
 Other features of the XCR is the 3 lug bolt,similar to an AK but with much better tolerances.The lugs on the bolt are huge,not likely prone to breakage like the AR bolt has been known to be.The ejector is fixed unlike the AR that uses a plunger type on the bolt head,there are no ejector springs to fail.
  It is very much like an Fal in that it uses a left side charging handle allowing you to stay on target to either charge the weapon or clear a malfunction without going to low ready,and that the gas pressure is adjustable is your using a suppressor or firing unusually weak ammo or dirty ammo.The upper is fully machined with integral m1913 rails 12 inches long at 3,6, and 9 o'clock and full length on top for just about any kind of b.u.i.s or optic you desire.
 The upper hinges open with just a push of a button,push out the captive front pin and the halves separate.The bolt release is ambidextrous.The barrel removes with a few turns of an Allen wrench and the bolt easily comes out of the carrier so you can change calibers within minutes.The pistol grip is standard AR so you can change it to whatever you like.If you don't like the factory folder you can order it without a stock and buy an M4 adapter and put the stock of your choice on it.Which is another point,you can't put a folder on an AR because of the buffer and spring being inside the buffer tube.
  A complete parts kit can be had for $75 which includes just about anything that would require replacement,springs etc.Last but certainly not least is the best customer service I've ever experienced with any manufacturer of any product I own bar none.
 Make no mistake my intention is not to flame the AR just point out features the XCR offers that no other rifle offers for the money.

I own several AR's and i have absolutely no need of another 5.56 gun but every time i look at the xcr it makes me think i'd buy one if i could ever lay my hands on one to see if i really like it.

Can the XCR accept a RDIAS?
Just curious. This rifle is mighty tempting.

If you are referring to the registered drop in auto sear then I would say probably not.The XCR has completely different trigger components than does the AR.

Nope.

Well that certainly mad up my mind

OK I own both.  I own an M4 Carbine and I own an XCR Carbine.  I have also been in both Gulf wars (multiple tours in Iraq) and If I had a choice while over there I would have chosen the XCR every time.

That being said.  The AR is a good rifle.  If you can keep it, do so.  However, if you want to buy an XCR, you won't regret it.  Accuracy is not a problem with the XCR.  Even after a barrel change.  Accuracy with the XCR averages sub-MOA at 100yds.  Parts are readily available from Robinson Arms and they are very affordable.  Don't let anyone tell you that Robinson may not be around in a few years.  If that is the case then that can be said for any of the AR manufacturers.  

No onto the XCR.  Here is why I purchased one and wished I had it when I was in battle:

1. The same reliability as the AK-47.

2. Same modularity as the M4.  I can fit anything on the XCR I can with the M4.

3. Bigger and better bolt.  

4. Gas Piston.  GP is not just to reduce cleaning.  I can adjust the gas on the fly to reduce ammunition problems.  If I got a batch of ammo that is weaker than the last, I can crank the gas up and not have to think twice about the ammo.  If I have a silencer, I can crank the gas all the way down.

5. Solid ejection system.  Ejector will not break.

6. Stronger Extractor.

7. Charging handle is located in a better and more ergonomic position.  No need to change your position so you can charge the weapon.  You can look through the optic while charging and never taking your eye off the target.

8. I can operate nearly every function of the gin with the trigger finger such as dropping the mag, locking or releasing the bolt.  

9. Better selector switch.

10.  Just better all around.  

That are just some of the reasons I prefered the XCR over the M4 in battle.  I also prefer the XCR in the civilian world because I can change out the barrel and bolt and have a completely different caliber gun.  You show me an AR that can fire all the calibers, buy just simply changing out a bolt and barrel in a matter of 5 minutes: 5.56, 6.5, 6.8, 7.62x39.

You can't.  

I have well over 6000 rounds (closer to 7000) and I have not once cleaned the chamber, receiver, bolt/extractor.  Try that with a non-gas piston M4.

You can't.  If you tried it in battle you would be dead.  I hated having to clean my weapon all the time.  But I knew I had to so I could make it home again someday.

Just try any of that with the AR-15 and see how well it works out. I bet you go buy an XCR.  You can order one straight from Robinson Arms and have it delivered in about 8 weeks.  Get it the way you want it too.  Try that with LWRC, Sabre, LMT, DPMS, BM, Stag, or anyone else.  They are 1+ years backordered.  

Do yourself a favor and buy an XCR.  Most of the people on this forum have never fired an XCR so they are most likely biased.  Ask the guys on the XCR forum who own both and they will tell you why the prefer the XCR to the AR.

AR-15 =

XCR =

DISCLAIMER:  The AR platform has served America and some of it's allies for over 40 years.  It is a great weapon system.  No doubt about it.  However, it has it's drawbacks and thatis why many of America's allies have adopted other systems most of which are Gas Piston operated just like the extremely reliable AK-47.

LMT. And their system is even easier.

The XCR is a sweet rifle though and I'd take it over a standard AR any day.

Why on earth do you need a RDIAS?  You can pull the trigger nearly as fast as full auto an an AR.  AS someone who served multiple tours in Iraq, I never once put my M4 on full auto.  Fisrt, I would not be very accurate, and second, I would have run out of ammo too quickly.

Not at the price of the XCR.  

I have shot the XCR it is a fine weapon and puts most (read not all) AR's to shame.

Unfortunately Robinson himself is right up there with Bill Ruger as far as selling out to anti gun leftests.

The XCR does nothing that my MGI does not already do and in many ways comes up very short.  However my MGI go's far beyond most AR's anyway.

I challenge anyone who wants to go toe to toe with me in a weapons test to meet up with me for a 12 day class with Tactical Response ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE AN AK, XCR, ACR, OR SCAR-L.  Parts will break, weapons will fail.

One condition.  You'll have to wait tell about Jan next year as I'm in Iraq right now.

Not to seem to attack your post....but there is another way of looking at this.

You can pull the trigger 900 times a minute???  FA is just more fun

Are you confusing AF with Burst?

Burst I've never used.  But there were times I'd have ripped a mag of FA into the grill of a truck running at my checkpoint if I'd had FA.

IMHO 3 round burst is useless.  FA is good on vehicles.

O and if you don't thing a FA M4 is controllable...  
We had a SF team drop buy our range for a bit.  M4A4
FA M4
At 25m most of the rounds were on paper.
This is also the first time I have ever fired an M4 full auto.  I'm sure with some training/practice I would have even better control.
With a PWS comp/suppressor it's even more controlable.

I was going to order an XCR from a dealer and was told that Robinsons customer service was lackluster to say the least. This dealer stopped bringing in the XCR for this reason. I bought a Sig 556 instead and absolutely love it. I would like a chance to shoot an XCR before I buy.

Is the XCR even offerered with a chrome lined 1/7 barrel?  Last I saw you could only get 1/9 barrels...

According to Rob 1/9 is better.  Why would you want 1/7?

It is not my intention to bust any one out here. In the name of accuracy of information I have to dis agree with  ..."and don't forget the more complicated break-down procedure for the XCR, I've done it, and you can't deny that it is more intricate than the AR."
I did a critical T&E of one of the first XCR's delivered and found it simple to take down with no small pins to lose. Here's a link to what one looks like taken down
http://www.robarm.com/XCR_Fieldstripped.gif

There is no universally best or stupid proof rifle.

RA customer service is TOP NOTCH.  They will help you out.  Even if it was your fault I'd expect them to give you a fair shake.  SO someone will bring up the M96.  Well, they don't make it any more, true.  But has anyone ever had issues with not being able to get spare parts from them?  Call and ask them, I bet they'll still help you out.  Is it a small company?  Yes.  What does that mean?  It means that they stake their reputation on their product.  Sure a bad sample will make its way out the door but see the CS statement above.  They'll fix it.  If you want a KISS rifle then maybe an AR would best.  If you want a tacticool shooter and plan on taking an AR and fitting gucci stuff to it then maybe the XCR would be best because it comes with everything already attached; rails and what not.  Since it ain't bolted on you know it's solid.  AR's can swap uppers, sure.  I can swap a barrel with a turn of a bolt and essentially have a new rifle.  I'm not down on the 6.8 and 7.62x39 conversions but some other versions coming out soon seem promising, i.e. 6x45mm (6mm-223 Rem).  Imagine shooting 85gr slugs out of your standard AR mag, same velocities too.

I've humped every version of the M16 (M16 through M16A2 through M4) since I was 17.  I own a few AR's myself.  I also own an XCR.  I rarely shoot the AR's anymore.  Difficult field strip?  I think it's harder to open a bottle of aspirin than field stripping the XCR.  It's easy to clean too.  The bolt/op rod assy breaks down into three parts; op rod, carrier, and bolt.  No little cotter pins, extractor pins, etc, etc.  

1/9 barrels are chromed, no worries.  They are doing a run of 1/7 or 1/8 barrels soon, it hasn't been decided which.  Accuracy is comparable to a rack grade AR.

Now just to be fair and show I'm not a fan-boy like so many around these parts my rifle has had teething issues, but taken individually on their own and keeping comparisons to other rifles away, they are unique to themselves.  I didn't tighten the ejector bolts and after a string of 500 rounds the ejector was loose.  I fixed it with a NordLock washers.  That was over 2K rounds ago and have never checked it since.  The barrel bolt loosened up once.  I didn't like the Allen bolt anyways so I took a standard bolt and used NordLocks again.  Zero movement in the same 2K rounds.  A good portion of those rounds were suppressed too.  

So, I'd recommend an XCR to anyone.  

The other day I was at the range shooting my A4. One of the other shooters was asking me all about my rifle (you could tell he was not familiar with ARs, but he was interested). So I was explaining a few things to him, and another guy comes up with an XCR and begins setting up. The guy who was asking me about my rifle then approached XCR guy and said "hey theat's a neat looking rifle, the guy down there (pointing toward me) is shooting one like that" XCR guy then starts going on and on about how the rifles are actually quite different, and how the XCR solves SO many of the AR's "problems." He's talking about DI vs piston, adjustable gas valves, etc.

My A4 flawlessly chewed through over 250 more rounds after this guy showed up, as I watched him clearing malfunction after malfunction from his XCR. I didn't say a word, but he saw me watching. I didn't have to say anything.

The AR is a more proven system. Maybe that guy had lousy ammo or an improperly maintained rifle, but my impression of the XCR was not a good one.

-Dan

LOL

That's about the kind of answer I'd expect from Robinson Arms...

Get both

I have actually found burst to be very useful. Also one thing I noticed when involved with operations with TF guys.  Even guys with unlimited ammo budgets tend to shoot more per burst than they should because of a loss of fine muscular control when the adrenaline is up. What is trained to be a 2-3 round burst tends to be a 7-10 round burst.

To expect every single rifle made by a manufacturer to function flawlessly is ridiculous. Are we a smaller company? Yes. But the ratio of rifles to actual problems is really pretty small. I know. I do all the service and repairs. I know what happens, who it happened to, and keep every repair letter/form that comes in. NOT ONE of these problems has ANYTHING to do with the platform itself. Every problem is either a fault of ours or one of our US vendors. NOT the rifle.

Bushmaster, Sig, all of the other manufacturers have dealt with problems as well. They have more rifles out there, so you hear less about them - but for fuck's sake, quit blaming the platform. When built the way it should be, the XCR is one hell of a platform. I wish I could convey to you how awesome it is to work with these rifles day in and out. Unfortunately not everyone gets the up-close.


As for the "customer service being lacking", that's BS. I have never turned someone away for a replacement part. I've never been rude to anyone, and have ALWAYS put the customer first. Even if it meant putting in an extra 2 hours to my 10 hour days to fix something in time.

Was it a case of, "Go out and get the coolest rifle I can find at the shop and then shoot the cheapest ammo I can?"  A buddy and I are heading out this weekend and gonna burn off his ammo before he heads overseas.  Should be at least a thousand rounds and in what is Nebraska in February.  I'll keep tabs on how many malfunctions I have.  

At the end of the day and all things equal, if you're happy with what you have then that is great.  Once upon a time in a former life I was a small arms repairman.  To hear folks preach the AR like it is the gospel always evokes a slight chuckle.  I've seen 'em chokme by the gross.  The XCR has its limits too, of that you can be certain since it is made by the hand of man (and maybe assembled by the hand of Terra!).  But I think everyone here has to admit that this opinion is the same as asking someone who the best (insert sport here) team is or who makes the best truck and why.  

Look at it objectively, take each rifle at its own merits and faults and then decide which would be best for you based on what you NEED the rifle to do and what you would LIKE the rifle to do.  


oh yeah, RA is putting out a faster twist barrel sometime soon.  Right now they're tooled up for 1:9.  I'm not touching what barrel twist is best or why they chose to offer it in that style.  1:7 isn't the panacea of barrel twists though.  How many rounds of ammunition does the average shooter sling that are over 70gr?  My 1:9 actually shoots the TAP T2 75gr tips fairly well thank you.  I think this was RA trying to offer something that would satisfy the bulk of shooters out there.  But, their "crappy customer service" is so terrible they wouldn't have listened to current owners request a faster twist barrel and then prepare to turn them.

Robinson will take care of you should you ever have an issue or need a spare.  I don't know what happened in the past, but my experience with ordering and questions has been excellent.  Sure, they have a large backlog of orders like everyone else and new conversions kits developments and products are trickling out.  But progress is being made.

Try an XCR is 7.62x39 and you will be sold.

I have several ARs.....some are DI, the last 3 have been piston (LWRC in 6.8 and 5.56, POF in .308)....I don't even take the DIs out anymore.  I'm sold on the piston.

I have an XCR on order and from all accounts I've read from those that own both, the XCR is even nicer than the LWRC and IMO, that's saying something as my LWRCs and POF are flawless.

The XCR (again IMO) has better ergos, a stronger bolt, and easy to change bbl/caliber conversions as well as a lot of features for the same or less money than a comparably equipped standard DI AR.

I know this is "AR-15.com" so I expect a bias......I love my ARs, but I'm also not going to miss out on an evolution of the concept.

JMO,
Sean

I'm confident the XCR is a fine rifle.  The people (Allison and Terra) at Robinson Armament are polite and helpful when you can get in contact with someone. The world would be a better place if everyone were as helpful.

However, I do have concerns about how easy it would be to obtain parts.  I have had an XCR on order, paid in full, since before Obama was elected. Can't get a phone call returned so I have to wonder how I'd get parts if I can't even get a rifle or info on my order. I'm sure I'll like it when I get it but I even got my TPD AXR much sooner than my XCR and they crank those out one at a time in a tiny shop in Portland with a handful of people. I've built 8 ARs while waiting for my XCR.  If I need a part or all the components to build a complete rifle I can literally build one overnight right here on the equipment exchange.

Sorry for sounding bitter but it's irritating being shined on and not getting a return phone call after multiple attempts from a place that has $2000+ of mine.  I know times are crazy right now but damn....

For the same reason i want an mini uzi...........because i can

Im not going to war anytime soon and wont have to worry about running out of ammo because a firefight im sure will not last that long on US soil, ive got enough of it to last a while.

Also, that was not disrespect to our armed forces, My father and only brother serve this country, i just wanted to say that because i know how some arfcommers can get when saying anything about out soldiers( which i fully support)