Accuracy of a 16" HBAR

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Accuracy of a 16" HBAR

Posted: 7/11/2008 8:26:09 PM EDT

I have a post ban 16" HBar. It is abotu 1" in the back, & ca 3/4" forward of the gas block. Chrome bore. Bought it from bushmaster.

Never shot it.

How accurate do you think it should be w/ a FF at a bench rest my shooting aside? Sub MOA?

Posted: 7/11/2008 8:36:24 PM EDT

[#1]

Depends on the quality of the barrel. Chrome-lined barrels are usually a little less accurate than non-chrome. The bores are cut slightly oversize, then then chrome is electroplated over the steel. This process magnifies any imperfections in the rifling.

Also, the design of the chamber has an impact on inherent accuracy. 5.56 NATO chambers are loose and have a long lead to deal with dirty/out of spec rounds. .223 Remington chambers are tighter and have a short lead for greater accuracy at the expense of reliability under adverse conditions.

Posted: 7/11/2008 9:37:21 PM EDT

[#2]

which would a bushmaster barrel be?

Posted: 7/11/2008 9:47:39 PM EDT

[#3]

height=8

Quoted:
which would a bushmaster barrel be?

Should be stamped on the barrel, but I would assume it's the NATO chamber due to the chrome lining. You will need handloads to see a real difference in your groups.

Posted: 7/11/2008 9:54:02 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
which would a bushmaster barrel be?

If it is a Bushy upper it should have a 5.56 chamber.

Posted: 7/15/2008 10:50:01 AM EDT

[#5]

So what kind of MOA does a bushmaster chrome HBar have?

I am trying to figure out whether to bother making a SPR type build out of this.

Posted: 7/15/2008 10:54:48 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
So what kind of MOA does a bushmaster chrome HBar have?

I am trying to figure out whether to bother making a SPR type build out of this.

The biggest variable is the nut behind the stock, with the ammo being #2

There is no way your rifle will shoot MOA if you can't, and if your ammo is cheaply made plinking ammo don't expect miracles no matter how good the barrel.

Posted: 7/15/2008 11:00:54 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
So what kind of MOA does a bushmaster chrome HBar have?

I am trying to figure out whether to bother making a SPR type build out of this.

if it's a 16" you may be thinking "recce" type build.

either way i think you should be good to go. with some good ammo and an ACOG both of my Bushy 16" chrome lined barrels will shoot around an inch. it depends on the ammo and me more than any other factor. the modular barrel will shoot under an inch with Black Hills 60gr v-max.

pic's make any thread better

Posted: 7/15/2008 11:23:58 AM EDT

[#8]

pics do make threads better. Nice rifle.

Around an inch? You mean like 1" to 1 1/2" or like 3/4" to 1 1/4"?

How much accuracy will you loose shooting 223. out of 5.56 chamber?

Posted: 7/15/2008 12:59:24 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
pics do make threads better. Nice rifle.

Around an inch? You mean like 1" to 1 1/2" or like 3/4" to 1 1/4"?

How much accuracy will you loose shooting 223. out of 5.56 chamber?

thanks

1" to 1 1/2" is the norm. the mod is 3/4" to 1 1/4" with the Black Hills.

.223 has a wider selection of quality ammo and shoots quite well. a 5.56 chamber is inherently less accurate than a .223. thus the match or wylde AR chamber, it's a cross between the two. so to answer the question none that i can see.

Posted: 7/15/2008 1:09:24 PM EDT

[#10]

All my Bushmaster barrels would shoot SOMETHING 1-1.5 MOA. Your barrel my or may not like some ammo. Its not a match barrel but they dont suck either.

Posted: 7/15/2008 1:59:01 PM EDT

[#11]

All due respect, but I don't think anyone can do any better than guess how well an unknown rifle is going to shoot.

As previous poster commented, ammo and user have a great deal to do with results.

Posted: 7/15/2008 9:20:43 PM EDT

[#12]

I'm just trying to figure whether to replace it w/ more of a match barrel or just to keep this one. If I shoot it, I won't be able to sell it for as much.

Posted: 7/15/2008 11:54:46 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I'm just trying to figure whether to replace it w/ more of a match barrel or just to keep this one. If I shoot it, I won't be able to sell it for as much.

THe question becomes how well do you shoot. If you're only a 6 moa shooter, then replacing a 1.5 moa barrel with a .75moa barrel really isn't going to help you.

However if you're a true 1 moa shooter, then getting that match barrel would be a help.

By true 1 moa, I mean you can put 10 consecutive shots into a 1" circle at 100y - no calling shots, no 'flyers'. 10 consecutive shots in that 1".

Posted: 7/16/2008 6:22:45 AM EDT

[#14]

My 2 Bushmaster shot just fine

(A1 16inch HBAR & A1 20inch HBAR) had 16 hbar cut to 14.7 back in 2001

If you are Talking 3rd 0r 5rd groups

Yes I can/could keep them all toching / CLOVERS

I now run LMT M4`s

wich are Every bit as accurate as a HBAR

Posted: 7/16/2008 6:57:20 AM EDT

[#15]

I can't speak for the 16" HBAR, but I myself have a varminter, and I have shot a few other Bushies with shorter barrels with under MOA results. Bushmaster makes pretty decent barrels.

My gun likes the 45 gr Winchester whitebox ammo. These also shot well in a couple other guns I tried. About 1/2 - 3/4 moa.

If yoyr looking for the best accuracy your gun can deliver, you will need to handload. I get under 1/2 moa with 52gr SMK over W748. Otherwise, with "cheap" ammo, you should expect 1-2 moa.

Posted: 7/16/2008 7:00:02 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I can't speak for the 16" HBAR, but I myself have a varminter, and I have shot a few other Bushies with shorter barrels with under MOA results. Bushmaster makes pretty decent barrels.

My gun likes the 45 gr Winchester whitebox ammo. These also shot well in a couple other guns I tried.

If yoyr looking for the best accuracy your gun can deliver, you will need to handload. Otherwise, with "cheap" ammo, you should expect 1-2 moa.

I agree hanload is good and Fun

But
Federal Gold 69/77gr SMK & Black Hills Red & Blue77gr can give outstanding Groups

Posted: 7/16/2008 1:11:58 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm just trying to figure whether to replace it w/ more of a match barrel or just to keep this one. If I shoot it, I won't be able to sell it for as much.

THe question becomes how well do you shoot. If you're only a 6 moa shooter, then replacing a 1.5 moa barrel with a .75moa barrel really isn't going to help you.

However if you're a true 1 moa shooter, then getting that match barrel would be a help.

By true 1 moa, I mean you can put 10 consecutive shots into a 1" circle at 100y - no calling shots, no 'flyers'. 10 consecutive shots in that 1".

You are being paternalistic. I understand that barrels are often more accurate than shooters. I am asking about the barrel itself, as if it was shot from a ransom rest w/o any influence from shooter.

This barrel is kind of an oddball, it is a 1X7 they experimented w/ but didn't continue w/ b/c they didn't sell good enough. That is the main reason I bought it cause I wanted to shoot TAP or 77gn OTM

Posted: 7/16/2008 2:01:48 PM EDT

[#18]

I have shot 1/3 MOA at 200 yards with a custom benchrest rifle with handloads so thats about my ability from the bench, not the greatest, but enough to know if a barrel is accurate. I had a Bushmaster 1/7 and with 75 grain Black Hills red box I never got a group less than 1". It was a FF barrel, KAC 2 stage trigger, and TA31. Like you have already heard its not a sub MOA match barrel. If you want that get a stainless match barrel.

Posted: 7/16/2008 2:10:29 PM EDT

[#19]

I have 16"(mine is 1/9) and 20" bushmaster hbar barrels and with handloads (hey it's cheaper) I regularly get .5-.75" groups at 100 yards. I also have a dpms in m4 profile that does very well but when it heats up it starts to send flyers.

Now ... back to the point ..... these 16" barrel rifles were made primarily for combat and the expectation isn't that they get submoa performance ..... in a battle you're shooting in 3"-5" groups is more than accurate enough to be the difference between life or death shooting center mass even at a head.

I know that's not good enough for any of us but it is reality.

Posted: 7/16/2008 3:36:55 PM EDT

[#20]

Adco sells Whit Oak heavy stainless match barrels for like $250. If I sold the BM chrome bore I could get that one for not much more.

Does anyone have any range reorts for those WOA barrels?

Posted: 7/16/2008 7:11:05 PM EDT

[#21]

Dude, just do some homework yourself, go to the range and test that bad boy out. Get some glass on there. Get all bagged up and prone or on a bench. And bring several different types of ammo. I'm betting that barrel can shoot pretty well. But it sounds like you haven't even tried.

My Colt A2 CL 1/7 NATO chambered 20" govt style picky barrel will consistently shoot 2 MOA (5 shots) with the right kind of ammo. Mainly 52 grain and 77 grain Black hills. From what I can tell. The trigger is also a heavy Son of a Gun. That's with a scope mounted on the handle. I'd post pics, but snapfish isn't really working. I'll try though.

But regardless of if you believe me or not, you should really find out what your current set up will do now. Why mess with getting something new if you don't need to. I highly recommend ADCO and WOA but you might find out that your barrel is a tack driver already. All you've got to lose is time, some fun, and some ammo. Or you may want to see if a better trigger is a better first mod. But without trying first, you're no better off than with a brand spanking new match barrel. Well, maybe a little better off, but like I said, what have you got to lose.

FWIW, I have a WOA barreled recce that was built by ADCO that shoots much better than what I posted above

Posted: 7/18/2008 6:35:02 PM EDT

[#22]

Can you guys see the pictures I posted. If so, I don't get it. That site won't post my new ones but it will my old ones. Rrrrrrrrrrr.

Posted: 7/18/2008 6:44:17 PM EDT

[#23]

My heavily modified Dissy hbar does this with my handloads, Nosler 50gr's.

and the gun of course

Posted: 7/18/2008 10:44:44 PM EDT

[#24]

seem like groups are better w/ lighter ammo???

That's a respectable 5 shot group.

3 shot groups are meaningless

Well,

chances are good that the HBar will do 1 to 1.5". 1.5 @ 300 yds is ca 4.5" groups....kind of so so for my wants.

Probably I'll keep it virginal & sell it & buy the WOA stainless 16" middy.

Posted: 7/19/2008 7:51:09 AM EDT

[#25]

Have you shot Sub MOA with any other rifles? I can see your point about wanting to keep it unfired though. Might have more value.

I'm not a big sub MOA shooter. I think I need to start handloading. But I did get these with my recce when I first got it.

Those were all 100 yards obviously. That's a pretty heavy trigger too.

I get MOA with the 77's too. And looks like the 68's. It really didn't like the 69's though.

WOA upper, barrel 1/7 SS, WOA bolt and carrier group. I use a lower with a rra 2 stage trigger and that makes a bid difference.

Posted: 7/20/2008 6:46:21 AM EDT

[#26]

I have a Bushy 16" HBAR. It will shoot 1-1.5 all day long with middle of the road ammo. It's GTG in my opinion. It really comes down to your technique as far as accuracy goes. A bad shooter can make a good rifle bad.

Posted: 7/20/2008 8:27:28 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I can't speak for the 16" HBAR, but I myself have a varminter, and I have shot a few other Bushies with shorter barrels with under MOA results. Bushmaster makes pretty decent barrels.

My gun likes the 45 gr Winchester whitebox ammo. These also shot well in a couple other guns I tried. About 1/2 - 3/4 moa.

If yoyr looking for the best accuracy your gun can deliver, you will need to handload. I get under 1/2 moa with 52gr SMK over W748. Otherwise, with "cheap" ammo, you should expect 1-2 moa.

I have a 16" HBAR Bushy. I tried the 45 gr WWB JHPs in it just last week and I couldn't notice any significant difference between those loads and 55 gr XM193. Both were good for about 1-2 MOA.