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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:23:28 PM EDT
[#1]
The ACOG is the way to go, learn to shoot it w/ both eyes open and it is very fast.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:25:58 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:26:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Sounds like youre wanting an ACOG with a reflex dot on top of it
www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=544 |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:43:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Glad I am not the only one that can not make my mind up
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:43:57 PM EDT
[#5]
$
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:44:15 PM EDT
[#6]
ACOG
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:50:09 PM EDT
[#7]
What is the best ACOG for the money? I seems I see them from about $600-$1500.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 11:27:46 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 10/6/2007 11:28:49 PM EDT
[#9]
I Agree FWIW |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 1:02:03 AM EDT
[#10]
A guy I work with told me that the ACOG loses approximately 50% of it's brightness in 10 years. Is that true?
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Posted: 10/7/2007 1:21:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Tritium elements will typically degrade to about 50% in about 12 years, but Trijicon will replace the element for a small fee. The fiber optic illumination does not degrade. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 1:22:38 AM EDT
[#12]
I went with a Compact ACOG (TA47-6) because I don't shoot farther than 216 yards (max distance of our local range) and I wanted to use it for CQB distances. After a 50 yard zero, I am able to hit the iron plate at the max range distance with no problems. The ACOG will lose some brightness in time but I'm sure that Trijicon will be able to remedy that for a fee.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 3:25:59 AM EDT
[#13]
0-200 yards Aimpoint
200 Yards + Acog. It's really comes down to mission specific. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 3:47:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Tritium can be changed by Trijicon for around $80. The Fiber optics will keep things bright in the day light. In the dark your screwed without fresh tritium. Tritium is only available from Switzerland, South Africa, and Israel.
Try a Trijicon before you buy one. The aiming concept takes some practice but is very fast and effective once learned. The optic is super tough, and nice and clear due to the prismatic erector. Aimpoints are less "hassle", but all you get is a dot and no magnification for target i.d. or assistance at long range. (you can buy a magnifier for about the same price as the optic plus another mount) No bullet drop compensation. Easy to learn to use, battery life is almost as long as Tritium half-life, and batteries are available at the store. Both are great for what they were designed for. This may not be much help but it is part of the info you should have if deciding. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 5:29:15 AM EDT
[#15]
While the ACOG can be learned for CQ shooting, it will never be as fast as an Aimpoint.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 5:35:14 AM EDT
[#16]
I would take the ACOG.
If you change your mind and go with an Aimpoint, get the Comp M4. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:02:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Serious question:Has that statement been verified by testing?No dog in this hunt,I'm just interested. FWIW,I owned an Aimpoint and did a fair amount of shooting with it.I liked it a lot,but in dim light(dusk,dawn,heavy woods)the dim view was a hindrance. I guess my question is:Where do the lines cross...IOW,at what range does the magnification and light gathering of the ACOG's become a hindrance to speed versus the dimmer view and 1X of the Aimpoint? |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:35:47 AM EDT
[#18]
You must really decide what your question is. . .
What is the task you want it to perform? Under what conditions must it perform these tasks? To what degree must it perform these tasks? For example: I want to effectively engage targets from 0 to 300 meters with a 10.5 inch Mk18. Most targets will be within 200 meters. The most critical targets will be within 50 meters. Positive target identification is critical. It must perform these duties during periods of daylight and darkness, indoors and outdoors, from a temperature range of -40 F to 140 F. The optic is to enable the shooter to strike a 10 inch target 8 times out of 10 at 300 meters with no time limit, and permit rapid engagement of multiple targets at close range- 1 second from command to first shot on a 10 inch target at 15 meters, no longer than .5 seconds from target 1 to target 2 with a 5 meter separation at 15 meters. This is unless of course, you have decided to only buy either an ACOG or Aimpoint. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:45:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Do like Im going to do....
Get them both, slap on some LaRue QD mounts and go! Change out optics depending on need in just a few seconds. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 4:54:22 PM EDT
[#20]
I greatly appreciate everyone's feedback. Unfortunately I am still no closer to making up my mind of this. I'd like to pose a few more questions though.
From what I have read the TA01NSN ACOG seems like one of the most recomended. Here are my questions: 1. I wear glasses part of the time when I am lounging, contacts the rest of the time. How is the eye relief on this model if I am wearing my glasses? 2. I don't understand this particular statement in the description of the TAO1NSN "The reticle will appear black during the daytime and will glow amber in the dark, thanks to Trijicon�s patented tritum illumination." So is this particular model equally suited for day and night use? 3. Does anyone have the Doctor add-on optic and if so, in your mind, does this really balance out the ACOG with the positive atributes of the Aimpoint esp. for CQB? http://www.swfa.com/pc-9696-225-trijicon-4x32-acog-rifle-scope.aspx 4. Suppose I get the TAO1NSN with Doctor, should I still add backup Iron sights? I know the TAO1NSN comes with irons on it and I like that but I am assuming the Doctor replaces the back site. The way that I see it, where I live with lots of hills and thick forrest, you are hard pressed to encounter targets beyond about 300 yards, with maybe 100 yards being average. Of course it'd be nice to have something good to go beyond 300 yards and still be very effective at 10 yards. Maybe this is a tall order I am not sure. Also I'd like to say that I am a firm believer in not over complicating things. I prefer to set my equipment up to be the most effective possible but still simple enough to be practical. There is a point at which you can add so much crap that it passes a point of practicality. I am sorry for all of the questions but I really would like help deciding on this. Either way it is a lot of money and I want to get it right. I have used AR15 advice for almost ever firearm related purpose for the past two years and haven't been disappointed yet. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 6:12:35 PM EDT
[#21]
I myself plan on getting a Trijicon 21R AccuPoint. Maybe not as good as the others at what they do best but better than both at what they don't do well.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 6:25:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Were it me, I'd go with an ML3 2MOA, w/a 3X magnifier from LT for a little juice.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 6:26:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Another satisfied customer that knows Aimpoints aren't just for "CQB." |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 6:29:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 10/7/2007 6:34:39 PM EDT
[#25]
fox49y
Is that the TAO1NSN? How do you like that scope? How is the eye relief considering I might be wearing glasses? |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 6:42:49 PM EDT
[#26]
I don't have a problem using my ACOG TA31F with glasses. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 7:23:53 PM EDT
[#27]
I have had neither but from what I hear, the ACOG is the way to go.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 7:43:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Please, feel free to detail why. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 7:44:31 PM EDT
[#29]
That should help him make his mind up just like that. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:04:43 PM EDT
[#30]
been an aimpoint man for years, still use them. however, lessons learned from deployment is that i have yet to see an optic stand up to the abuse like the acogs do.
i'm talking dropped, thrown, blown up, dragged under a truck, issued to a dumb ass and used as a hammer to break down a 249 tough. they still work even after the fiber optic thingy is completely broke off. literally one of my buddies just stuck the red plastic fiber back in the hole and taped it down to hold it in place. all of the acogs over here look like absolute crap and still work. i used to absolutely hate the short eye relief (i'm still working on that), but have since decided i'll get used to it with my TA31ECOS. took forever to get it and cost a metric ton, but damn. a docter on top of an illuminated 4x scope...just damn. as far as tritium half life is concerned i think its a moot point, probably the most useless part of the acog. reason being is that when its dark enough for the tritium to do its thing, it's usually too dark to see the target clearly through the optic. i admit thats not 100% of the time in 100% of the possible situations, but i have looked at many a silhouette with nice red crosshairs unable to identify. in other words, i have a scope thats going to outlast me and i'll let my kids worry about the tritium when its theirs. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:13:43 PM EDT
[#31]
13-F-COLT:
Thanks for your info. Have you personally used a Doctor Optic and if so how is it? Generally speaking what do you think of the ACOG for CQB? Say less than 10 meters but still beyond the 15 feet instinctive shooting distance. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:16:22 PM EDT
[#32]
If you have the money go for the ACOG.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:39:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Ill quote my self to re-ask the question. What is all the differences between the modles? What is the recommended ones for the best price? |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:48:51 PM EDT
[#34]
I swear by the TA31F/TA31RCO (damn near the same thing with cap retainer wires and some left/right reticle tickmarks). I have a RCO and a CompM2, both in Larues.
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:56:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Basically what I'd most like addressed is my concerns regarding the ACOG for CQB.
Maybe I could add a Doctor optic or just use the back up irons that come standard with the TAO1NSN. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 8:59:59 PM EDT
[#36]
all of my cqb to date has been 20 feet or less. the buildings i've been in were mostly small single story hovels. the acog i bought has only been with me for the past 3 months or so. that works out to about 60 odd missions but has so far been very good for up close and fast. i'd say the docter sits somewhere in between the aimpoint and the eotech as far as feel goes. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 9:51:04 PM EDT
[#37]
I've used Aimpoint, EOtechd's and several model of ACOGs.
For the majority of people an Aimpoint is probably the better optic. I can get mine to hit consistently at pie plates out to 300 yards. Hold over is easy if you learn to adjust the dot so it doesn't bloom all over. Shooting beyond that with an Aimpoint takes some serious skills and luck. That said I've gone back to a TA-11 with the infamous Donut of DEATH. It's much faster than a TA31 IMO due to the long eye relief and more forgiving to use. The only drawback is that it's heavy as a sledge hammer. For "CQB" work my little OTAL works just fine on man sized target as I zeroed it to 25 yards. I still have the Aimpoint but that will most likely be replaced by a Docter mounted on a Matt Burket mount. If you wear glassess I recommend you save up and get EYE SURGERY, it's the best "optic" you will ever pay for. I still kick myself to this day that I spent literally thousands on optics before I got my eye surgery. It will destroy any optic known to man and makes your eyes the ONLY sight that count. I don't know how many pair of broken glasses I've had going through FTX's and on deployment; no more problem with that now. So take my advice, save your pennies and get your eyes zapped, it will be worth 1 BILLION times more than any optic will do you. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 10:01:46 PM EDT
[#38]
A-COG
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Posted: 10/7/2007 10:01:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Specter,
+1 for an ACOG in the TA31 series - the BAC fiber optic and red reticle were designed to allow for CQB adaptability (with practice, of course). The TA01s are nice, but were designed for longer distances. Check the Trijicon website for previews of the reticles and you'll see what I mean. If you get an Aimpoint, +1 for a look at the new CompM4. |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 4:32:23 AM EDT
[#40]
I have an Aimpoint. I want an ACOG. I never did until last summer when I met NPD233 and took a look through his.
When I get done with my 700..I am getting one. |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 5:12:37 AM EDT
[#41]
I own both and like both.
TA31f-RCO-M4  The TA31f-RCO-M4 has a BDC that is specifically built for a 16" barreled AR's that fire M855 ammo. This set-up works very well for me. Aimpoint CompML3-2moa with Heinsoldt magnifier, both in Larue mounts.  This set-up gives me CQB capabilites and out to 200m, the magnifier lets me extend that range out to 400m for minute of man hits. My $,02 |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 5:29:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Sounds to me for your uses an Aimpoint will do everything an ACOG will.
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Posted: 10/10/2007 3:15:49 PM EDT
[#43]
I am sorry for keeping this thread going but I have a follow up question.
I am one of these people who is right handed but naturally left eye dominate. The odd thing is that when shooting a rifle I seem to be able to shoot with my right eye. I guess this is from my dad training me to shoot with my right eye since I was 5 years old. When shooting a handgun though my left eye dominance takes over. Do you guys think that this would effect my ability to use the BAC on the TA31 series ACOG's? |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 3:20:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Uhhh ACOG, no wait... Aimpoint. ACOG! Kidding, Aimpoint. On second thought ACOG.
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Posted: 10/10/2007 3:29:25 PM EDT
[#45]
I have both. Both are great. But if I had choose just one it would be easily be an ACOG. Glass on the ACOG is awesome and with magnification, you can see the camoflaughed rabbit in the brush (or an iraqi's helmet) that you would not see with no magnification.
The ACOG is good for anything past 25 yards, under 25 yards then the Aimpoint all the way. But even at 25 yards or less, the Irons on an NSN is not that bad. To me nothing gets better than an ACOG NSN for an M4. 
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Posted: 10/10/2007 3:58:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Specter1975, don't base your decision on what other guys are using their ACOG's or Aimpoints for. What do you plan on using your optic for? Is it for Police Work, Military, 3-gun type competitions, range work? Generally, the Aimpoints are best used for 0-100 yards and the Acogs are best used from 25-400 yards.
Also, if you like the reticle on the ACOG, have you checked out the IOR 1.1x4 variable scope? I think that may work real good for you and at 4x, it has the BDC reticle like the ACOG and you can power it down to 1.1x for close range work. If you are set on getting an ACOG with a small red dot sight on top, I would get an ACOG with the Aimpoint Micro on top instead of the Doctor or JPoint. |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 4:01:42 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 10/10/2007 4:01:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Last I heard it was over $225 for a replacement of the radioactive stuff. Anyone know?? |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 4:10:20 PM EDT
[#49]
I'd like to do a little research and look at a IOR 1.1x4 variable scope. Where exactly can I find one of these? Is IOR the company of manufacture?
I am not real concerned with the cost. I am willing to pay for a quality optic. No I am not military or LEO yet. I mostly want a good SHTF set up and rifle for training at Blackwater. I am applying to the FBI next year after I have finished the madatory 2 year professional work experience needed, but if hired it is unlikely I'd use this rifle for LEO use. |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 4:56:52 PM EDT
[#50]
www.swfa.com/pc-10131-292-ior-11-4x26-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx If money is not an issue, then I would look into the S&B short Dot, or the Swarovski 1x6 scopes. |
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