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Posted: 2/16/2006 2:26:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Welcome to the site!
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Posted: 2/16/2006 2:31:02 PM EDT
[#2]
First off welcome!
How are you guys on man power? I'm originally from Texas and I might be going back if my contract doesn't get renewed... The last thing Mexico needs is an international incident, so I don't think they would fire unless fired upon, or you cross their border, but it would be nice to have a rifle just incase one is trigger happy. I suggest getting a 4x scope of some sort in case you ever run into that .50 cal gunner again and he decides to shoot. If you could take the gunner out with a quick shot or 3 it would probably save an ass load of lives and equipment. Not like any of this will happen, but it's always good to run it through your mind just inc ase... 
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Posted: 2/16/2006 2:59:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Welcome
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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:10:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Let's not forget the big "Thank you" for protecting our borders as best you can.
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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:35:57 PM EDT
[#5]
I didn't know the situation was that bad down there. The Mexicans had guns pointed at Americans? Sweet jebus! If you have any ideas for what equipment you need, post em and I bet the fine fellows here can help out.
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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:51:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Welcome and thanks! |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 4:06:45 PM EDT
[#7]
There is no doubt that those of us in LE are often outgunned, and officers going up against heavy weapons with duty pistols is a joke.
What is your deparment policy regarding long guns? What is your use of force policy when it comes to dealing with the border? I don't know of any use of force policy that says you need to be fired at before you can return fire. I know of military ROE that state that, but we aren't the military. A subject pointing a weapon is considered deadly force, but the problem starts when our government pressures our side to "not create an incident." The cold truth is that if we had a gang banger point a weapon at us, we would drop him. The larger the weapon, the higher the threat. Our officers are digging their own graves with incidents like this. When Mexican troops/ thugs/ dope runners decide that they are tired of running, it will be a blood bath of our LE & BP. Action beats reaction, and crew served weapons have no problem punching through a cruiser before an officer has the time to even think about E&E. I hope your department is providing an enhanced level of training. Your guys need to set up deisgnated marksmen, and in events such as the above, they need to deploy as an overwatch. Good luck, and Stay Safe. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 7:46:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Sheriff Returns from DC, Talks Border Security Funding
Feb 14, 2006, 08:33 AM MST Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version file Sheriff Returns from DC, Talks Border Security Funding EL PASO, TX. - County Sheriff Leo Samaniego is back home in the Sun City, after testifying and educating some in Congress on border security. Monday morning, Sheriff Samaniego talked about the effect of all that national attention is having on the border. The Sheriff said, "There's enough things happening on the border that are bad enough without us making them sound worse...we went to Washington, D.C. to educate and to push for approval of our bill." That bill is asking for a $100 million in funding for states along the border. El Paso would get $3 million of that money to hire more sheriff's deputies. During a Homeland Security hearing last week, Sheriff Samaniego told lawmakers about breeches in border security, including a stand-off between drug smugglers and law enforcement in Hudspeth County. In that incident, the smugglers were dressed to appear like they were part of the Mexican military. Mexico says the men are not soldiers, but drug smugglers. Mr. Samaniego says he presented physical evidence to Congress of several other border incursions all across Texas. The sheriff added while Mexican cooperation is necessary for border security, he said its time for the US to protect itself. Sheriff Samaniego simply told ABC-7, "We need to do something." El Paso County is largely credited for taking the lead statewide with "Operation Linebacker," which Governor Perry expanded into the multi-agency "Operation Rio Grande" last week. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 7:54:10 AM EDT
[#9]
this is the stuff i have to deal with on a regualr basis. what the govt does not want to hear is that there have been several instances where there has been shots fired across the border between us and them, What the guys in wash. dont want to hear is that we are the Main blood line for narcotics that come from mexico to the us we are a border city and the cartels in mex are all comming to west texas to cross the stuff over. the congressman are so blind that our represenative from here in my town told Gov. Rick Perry that we were making too much of the situation, he said that there is no way that the Mex Military would help the smugglers cross the dope. I wish i could take him to where the border is and the only thing seperating us and Mex is a river that is damn near dry. I wish he could have been there and had a group of Military personel pointing high powered rifles in his direction, and us being under armed not being ablt to do anything about it.
here is a link to all the information that is happeing down here. http://www.kfoxtv.com/bordersecurity/index.html i recommed you guys look at the site there is alot of stuff here that the regualr public is blind to! |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:05:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for doing what you do.
Yes, an AR15 probably won't deter the drug dealers or the military but maybe if all they are trying to do is bully you with the larger weapons, calling their bluff might do some good. If they start seeing AR15s that look just like the ones they see on TV in Iraq, they might change their minds. I wouldn't want to incite an incident though but you ought to be able to arm yourself. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:34:36 AM EDT
[#11]
My advice would be: read the tacked threads in the Ammo forum. You've got a good rifle, now get it some good ammo. Hopefully, you'll never need it, but in the event that you do, your life is worth the best.
Thank you for your work defending our border. -Troy |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:40:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Yes! Thank you and God bless. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:43:22 AM EDT
[#13]
In the old days of Cowboys 'n Russians, guns were kept in a neutral position to prevent someone from getting spooked. Look at pictures of our jets intercepting Russian Bear patrol bombers, and you will notice the 23mm cannons in the tail are pointed up, same thing whenever our warships crossed paths, nobody pointed anything at anyone, cept cameras.
My suggestion to you, until you get 50's on your own hummers, and gunship air support, you do the same, stick to bino's, still, and video documentation. Discretion is the better part of valor, and you guys are seriously outgunned, so stick to observe and report. It isnt worth you life. If you can carry an AR, do, but leave it in the car when your facing belt fed! Hell, for that matter, keep yourself in the car and haul ass. Good luck, and thanks. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:45:23 AM EDT
[#14]
It's your semi-auto AR with effective range of 300 meters versus a full auto .50 caliber with ranges of 2000 meters+ sorry but you would have to be one cool customer to take that on. I would just leave these guys alone, it's marijuana, not coke, and not worth the trouble if you ask me.
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:49:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Allow people to commit a felony simply because sometimes its only weed? Allow our country to be invaded by armed subjects and then run away? These same people run weapons, people, all forms of narcotics, as well as anything else they get paid for. I took an oath before God when I pinned on my badge, there is no way I would ever overlook something like this just because it may get me hurt or killed. You don't run away, you plan, adapt, and win. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:58:02 AM EDT
[#16]
I agree with Stickman. Just because it's Mary Jane today, doesn't mean it will be Mary Jane tomorrow. A policemans job is to PREVENT crime, that's why they are able to search suspicious vehicles and persons by simply detaining them. If a cop lets someone off because it's only an ounce of marijuana, he's chancing letting go of someone who just hours later, might have sold 40 pounds of marijuana on the streets, or maybe even worse drugs, if you wanna label them as good and bad... |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:01:57 AM EDT
[#17]
WTF is a "High Powered Assault Rifle"  - true 'assault rifles' by their very definition use an intermediate power cartridge - not a high powered one.
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:02:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Welcome to the site Law Dog. I was just down in El Paso yesterday for some work related training. My God you have some beautiful Senoritas down there.
 I know you dont have any gun stores worth a damn for AR acces. though. You might want to check out New Deal in Deming. Probably about a two hour drive from your location.
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:04:02 AM EDT
[#19]
I dont disagree with the sentiment Stick, but outgunned like that, man I'd rather see you guys get the evidence with photo's than 50 cal holes in your chest. I know it goes against the grain to back off, but we dont need any martyr's or sacraficial lambs.
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:11:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Maybe Texas should buy a few Helo's with missles on them for border cop protection. It can just hover over the police and point back... Who dick is bigger now Mexico... 
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:25:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Agreed. I wouldn't want some rookie to jump in on a suicide mission, my comments are more directed at getting the appropriate weapons and tactics to counter the threat. I don't think pictures would mean much to the liberals who demand we don't create an incident. IIRC, dash cams have captured some of these events previously, and nothing is done. Scoped weapons deployed as an overwatch can be used very effectively to counter Mexican heavy weapon teams. My view is that the Texas Gov needs to use National Guard fireteams working with the officers. The NG falls under the local & state LEOs for legal matters, while providing cover and support against an armed threat attacking our country and her people. This is well within PC, and violates NO laws. NG sniper/ marksman should be more than capable of identifying a threat, and taking the appropriate action. Heavy weapon teams or military members from another country pointing weapons or occupying our soil while making threats toward US citizens and/ or LEO can not be tolerated. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:48:20 AM EDT
[#22]
LAW_DOG, IM inbound your way.
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:54:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Law Dog, it might not hurt to have an officer or two in the bushes with a scoped M1A/M14 EBR loaded with some good .308 hunting ammo just in case the bad guys do decide to become aggressive. Of course, that is usually not practical from a terrain or stealth aspect. 266
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Posted: 2/17/2006 10:59:10 AM EDT
[#24]
just replying to one of the comments. They are not just crossing marijuana, a load vehicle typically has 1-15 kilos of coke on them well concealed. these people are also involved in human smugling extortion. Im sorry if all you have to go by is what is depicted on the BIG SCREEN but these cartels are multi million dollars operations, highly organized in structure. Its true when i was pinned i took the oath not to back down, im not saying im going to go into combat with the mex military, but it is not in me to just sit back and watch all this happen in my backyard, if that was the case and any of my fellow bothers in arms were to take a back seat to this i would not want them on my side when shit hits the fan. This is the foundation that our great country was formed by. we will not be pushed aside and be bullied around in order for some other organization to make a profit illeagally.
also this is not just happening in a concentrated area the Texas Mexico border is so vast that we do not have enough man power to possibly cover it all. The encounters that we do come across are scattered along the border. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 11:17:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Not only are they smuggling people, but they're smuggling people of the persuasion that are a direct threat to national security. Something else to think about.
Law_Dog, forgot to hit "send". IM should be there now though. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 8:54:16 PM EDT
[#26]
My first question is where are Jimmy and the rest of the boys with the airborn assets. I know from personal experience that you folks in El Paso have some pretty decent helecopter support, with at least 2 birds fully kitted out with NVIS lighting and FLIR systems good for night and day ops. That way at a minimum if they gun you down wit the .50 cal we'll at lease have the evidence on tape.
 That being said, a quality low power scope (say up to 4x) would be very reasonably for the AR. Quality magazine that you know work in your rifle. Be safe out there. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:28:30 PM EDT
[#27]
I really need a quality light, and a good price on a scope or even an EOtech shit down here is getting worse by the minute. If any of you guys have anything laying around and are not using it plz let me know. I appreciate all your input and advice i have gotten from you guys, Thanks again
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:39:29 PM EDT
[#28]
I would not bother arming myself with a AR-15 - as it is the job of the U.S. military to handle SHT. like this , Unfortunatly - U- are in a position where you have to play the good guy - and this means you probally will not fire first --- against a 50cal M.G. -- firing first at you -- Id say You would be in deep SHT --- no matter what rifle you had-- just M.O.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:49:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Welcome to the Site, some agencies let you have a rifle of choice as long as you check with the man in charge and qualify with it
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:52:39 PM EDT
[#30]
It is absolutely pathetic that these guys have to buy their own rifles! Where the hell are our hummers with 50's on top? Hell! Where are our tanks to confront a foriegn military threatening our borders?
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:56:01 PM EDT
[#31]
 Make your own teams, guy. Then light the |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:57:15 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 2/18/2006 3:59:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Small video camera. Then send te file to Matt Drudge. Neat story. Mexican military aiding drug trafficers and threatening American citizens on their own side of the border..
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:13:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Didn't the feds just pass some huge bill that is going place a multi billion dollar fence across the border?
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:23:09 PM EDT
[#35]
There is a "fence" there now - it is a -4 strand barbed wire one - with lots of holes in it & in washes you can do the limbo right under it ! , fences wont work - in places like AZ., N.M. -- terrain is to rugged for a fence - of any type ! |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:36:34 PM EDT
[#36]
A fence can be built ANYPLACE, just depends on how much we are willing to pay for it. I say we organize the first ever "AR-15 GROUP SHOOT-OUT and we hold it in EL PASO. I hear they have lots of moving targets down there. Don't we have like 85,000 members here? Just imagine 85,000 guys with rifles spaced a 100yds apart accross our border... Gene |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:45:51 PM EDT
[#37]
I know i'd be going against the grain but........In a situation like that, i'd take a m14/m1a over a ar15 just for penetration against vehicles if need be. Otherwise a few buddies with DMR type rifles would be a fair security measure against vehicles with 50cals. Of course, you're there NOT to get shot , not get in a firefight against ma-duce.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 4:57:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Sounds like the Fifty Caliber Shooters Assoc. needs to have a national gathering down on the border.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:05:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Granted that I am not in your situation, I think it is safe to say, "Stay as far away from that .50 machine gun as possible". On that note it might be wise to get a magnified optic for your bushy like an ACOG so that you can engage from a distance if needed. My .02.
-Jls7 |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:07:44 PM EDT
[#40]
I think a 1-4 power CQB scope as suggested before would be a nice choice. I use one made by IOR and like it.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:13:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Apparently Congress just approved sending $340 million to the mexican military while it is fully known that the mexican military is corrupt and and on the cartel payroll. Why in the hell would we not send that money to those protecting OUR side of the border, at least that way we know where the money is going. You, good sir could use just a drop in the bucket from the $340 million so you wouldnt have to buy your own damn eqipment. WTF is our government thinking on this one?
-jls7 |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 5:29:17 PM EDT
[#42]
If you can get funding for ammo... This is what I would carry.
    But that's just me...  (...and I would call this a "high-power" assult weapon.) |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:03:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Can you request support from JTF-6? (now known as JTF North)
www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/dod/jtf-6.htm Here's the official website, but it's down, I think. JTF-6 |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:34:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Welcome to the site! What your Department needs is about 20 M1 Abrahms tans, 50 attack helocopters, 250 up armored Humvees with 30 and 50 caliber machine guns, 5000- 7000 more Officers all armed with M4's, M16's and grenade launchers.
The U.S. Government needs to build a fence on the Southern border and you guys need about 200 tracking/ attack dogs to patrol the border. About a half million Claymore mines would also be of great help. I am sure you could also use some help from the Border Patrol and other local and State Law Enforcement Agencies. It would also be nice if our great leader, President Bush would tell Vicente Fox to kiss all of our collective asses! |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:50:49 PM EDT
[#45]
FCUK YEAH! That shit is nice. 
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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:51:03 PM EDT
[#46]
I agree that a better fence can be built -- but it will not solve the problem , as if i were them and wanted to get over / under it bad enough , i would , these are very remote locations in AZ. N.M - a huge area , it would not be possible to have enough people watching it day & night |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:57:46 PM EDT
[#47]
"FIRE MISSION! GRID SQUARE xxxx, FIRE FOR EFFECT!"
If only it were that easy... |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 7:11:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Mexican Gov't troops shooting at and threatening American Law enforcement on our side of the border.....
It's time to start doing something about it. |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 7:17:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Maybe your dept. could "barrow" an M1A1 from Ft. Bliss.
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Posted: 2/18/2006 7:21:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Ok, so my old mans a squid. Hey we cant all be perfect, but he does like to shoot. Not too many ships in Phoenix, AZ. so every so often, they would hold a drill weekend in San Diego or Long Beach. Sometimes they flew, but on occasion they drove. So my dad and a few other guys decided that after the work day ended on Saturday, they would go find someplace to shoot. Everybody who shoots brought something. Dad takes his Hk-91, M1 Carbine, and 1911 Series 70.
One of the guys knows a spot in San Diego right on the border. They end up shooting across a small wash, and the impact area is in Mexico. They have been shooting about 15 minutes, when the Border Patrol shows up. Conversation goes something like this: Howdy Hi, we are Navy Reservists from Phoenix. Is it ok to shoot here. Yep. How long you guys gonna be here Couple hours maybe, till the ammo runs out. Well, dont think anyone is going to cross here with you guys shooting. Have a nice day. You too officer. My dads group, which included at least one Phoenix Cop if I remember correctly had a good laugh at suddenly becoming "border security" and continued shooting. And guess what, noone crossed in their "AO". An ARF.com shoot sounds like it would work pretty good too. |
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