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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:36:00 AM EDT
[#1]
kns anti-rotational pins and a trip to the hardware store for a slightly bigger roll pin?
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:39:38 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:45:19 AM EDT
[#3]
+1 |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:46:09 AM EDT
[#4]
I got in on the $75 blem'd lower and I noted a few things:
The front pivot pin holes have hardly any material for support. I compared it to my Ameetec Arms lower and the Ameetec is twice as thick (0.140" or so) vs 0.060" with the Superor. The rear trigger guard rollpin hole is also "dangerously" close to the edge. The Ameetec arms, again, has more material around the hole. I do not have a LPK to install yet. The metal definitely sounds forged as far as I can tell so it should be fairly strong, but your observations should be noted as well. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 9:17:42 AM EDT
[#5]
I believe these have manufacturing defects as well as cosmetic defects. I've owned almost every manufacturers lower at one time or another. No comparison. I did get what I paid for.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 9:21:01 AM EDT
[#6]
I'd totally be down for a lower that has cosmetic blems, but not manufacturing defects.
 Hope it works out for you. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 9:32:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Tangochaser: I agree. About 1-2 years ago, stripped lowers weren't that bad about $90 or so shipped. Now I'm hard pressed to find anything good under $100-$110. The cool part is that if this thing ever broke, I can just swap in my other AR lower until I can fix or replace the other lower.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 9:53:58 AM EDT
[#8]
I bit on the "Blem" lowers also.
Got 2 @$75 each last week and they are Fugly. Oval holes, thin sides. terrible reams you name it. I'm almost ashame to build them up they're so bad. I could have put up with poor cosmetics but these look like they were made in the WASR factory! Oh yeah pics on the site show "SAFE-FIRE-AUTO" markings but they only have"SAFE-FIRE" no AUTO  No more of these for me. $15 bucks more could have got me a MEGA...God I'm stupid! 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:01:56 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm thinking, Locktite and spray on finish. Maybe dump them at the next gun show and trade for one good quality lower. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:07:52 AM EDT
[#10]
There is a big difference between a cosmetic blemish, and a lower that has egged out holes, thin walls, or other issues.
At $75 or $80, the $10-15 savings really doesn't sound like it is worth it. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:22:31 AM EDT
[#11]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=313385&page=1 For the record: I've ordered from RB Precision in the past and they are a great vendor (fast shipping and great prices). I've seen slight dings and scratches in non-blem receivers so I was prepared for the worst. The finish wasn't that bad at all. The forging marks were all machined off. There were some parts that had the black finish worn off, and some metal shavings in there (no big deal whatsoever). It's the thin material near the pivot pin holes and the rear trigger guard roll pin hole that concerns me more. I have not checked the roundness or dimension of the other holes. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#12]
If the lowers have out of spec issues I am sure that Robert and Krista would like to hear about it firsthand instead of second hand through a "bitching" post in a thread. Did anybody get in touch with RB Precision? Out of spec and cosmetic blem are two totally different things. Contact the nice folks at RB Precision and get your problems resolved. If Robert and Krista tell you to go fuck yourselves then come back here and post your bitch. But if they resolve your issues then come back here and tell us about it.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:36:59 AM EDT
[#13]
I'm not bitching! I didn't say I got ripped off. It's called information sharing. LIGHTEN THE F*CK UP! |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:42:04 AM EDT
[#14]
+1 |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:50:59 AM EDT
[#15]
I didn't take his post as bitching, I took it as him explaining what he ended up with when he bought blemished lowers. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:55:04 AM EDT
[#16]
I ordered one Monday. I will update when it comes in. Their ad says cosmetic blems. Oversize holes are manu defects and should not be released to the public. This thread is a bit late ! The thin pivot pin bosses just means you need to be careful and not let the upper swing down against the magwell. There is a lot of mechanical leverage built up when the handguard hits the magwell and the upper could bust off the pivot pin bosses. If it was a problem we would have heard about it by now.
It will be interesting to see what is done about the transfer fees if the lowers have to be replaced rj |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:57:42 AM EDT
[#17]
i would rather pay $100 for a almost perfect doublestar lower than pay $80 for a defective one.
actually i would even pay $170 for a bushmaster lower over the defective one. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:18:19 AM EDT
[#18]
+1000 Stick! I'm just informing everyone of my experience with these lowers as well. When I placed my order all that had been posted was how "great these blems were" & "just a few cosmetic flaws". Lesson Learned: (again) If it sounds to good to be true..... |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:24:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Holy fucking misinterpreted posts batman! I didn't try to come across as being all uptight in my post. I was just trying to say that if you aren't happy you need to contact RB Precision and let them have a shot at making you happy instead of complaining about it here. Jeezus Kryst, talk about needing to lighten up.
And I am the one who needs to lighten up. Lighten up; grow up, they seem to go hand in hand sometimes don't they? |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:34:46 AM EDT
[#20]
well, KNS pins come pre-loktited and you can get them oversized so you're good to go there!
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Posted: 2/7/2006 11:48:03 AM EDT
[#21]
RB does a great job!! Just call them, they fix it with a smile!!
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Posted: 2/7/2006 12:23:17 PM EDT
[#22]
It still is not a bad idea to get the information across so we have an idea of whether this is a serious widespread issue or just isolated problems with a few receivers. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 12:28:13 PM EDT
[#23]
I totally agree with getting information out about this kind of stuff. But if you have a gripe with a product from a respected vendor then your first step should be to contact them. If this is indeed an isolated problem then I am sure that RB Precision will take care of it, but if it is a systemic problem with them then we definitely need to know that too. I am guessing that the out of spec lower is an isolated problem simply because of all the glowing reports about these blems to date. I will be picking up 2 of these blems either tomorrow or Thursday and I will post my review and pics of them here. I bought one of these blems before and my son built his AR on it, and we had zero issues with it. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 1:15:44 PM EDT
[#24]
I say again. I don't have a gripe. I am not complaining, only informing. If the issues were that bad or important, I would have contacted RBP already. I have not contacted them because the issues are not that big of a deal. The receivers went together and appear to work. Just lower quality than I expected. But the quality is on par with the price I paid. I started this post as a public service announcement of the quality of some of the receivers being sold as cosmetic blems. Some who bought these, have posted elsewhere on ARFCOM, have gotten a great deal on a otherwise great lower. I did not. RBP shipped them within 3 days of RBP getting them from the manufacturer/finisher. Outstanding service. I will drop a line to RBP about the quality of the receivers only so they can keep an eye out for others with quality issues that might slip into their production. I don't even want to go through the trouble of replacing them as it would be a burden on my relationship with my FFL who did the transfer for free. He transfered them for free as his way of saying thanks to an Iraqi War vet and I don't want to abuse that service from him. If the receivers were of such poor quality that they were unuseable, I would have gone straight to RBP to get it fixed. There was no anger in my original post and there is none now. I just don't like to be told I'm complaining when I'm not. This is not and never was one of the "I got screwed by (fill in the name of the company) and I am never goingt o buy from them again" posts you see elsewhere. I jumped on you for acusing me of complaining and you jumped on me for jumping on you. What say we both stop and take my post for what it is, information for other buyers. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 1:29:30 PM EDT
[#25]
+1 rj |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 1:45:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Well, I got mine in and put it together and other than out of spec bits in the Model 1 LPK I had left over from my 6.8 rifle kit it went together ok and seems to be in spec just fine.
The front pivot pin bosses should be thicker and the trigger guard pin bosses are a bit close to the edge but everthing else was fine. The finish seems to chip very easily. Hey for $75 shipped plus a $10 transfer fee I'm happy. Now if the Model 1 safety and bolt stop were worth a crap it would be totally finished. I fixed the safety. The detent recess for 'safe' had a little casting bump in it and it just wasn't very positive on the safe position. Fire was good. I also closed up the gap in the trigger guard roll pin before I tried to install it. The thing was just WAY oversize. It probably would have broken the tabs. I left it a good interference fit. [ Motorcycle mech since 73, I understand tolerances ]. The bolt stop hole just ain't big enough about 1/2 way through and the thing is hardened of course and impossible to deal with properly. I think I will give them a call rat now. I bet it is the production run off one CNC machine that has the probs. My serial # is 265x. rj |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 2:05:35 PM EDT
[#27]
rjay, you won't get in touch with anyone from RB Precision until next week. They are in Las Vegas at the SHOT show.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 2:16:54 PM EDT
[#28]
It's a Model 1 bolt catch that is the problem. Model 1 is going to put me another one in the mail tomorrow.
ETA: I did kind of bounce around on my last post. What I meant by that last sentence what that I bet the problem that a few of the people had with their Superior lowers was off of one certain CNC machine's specific production run. RB & Superior will have no problem narrowing down the affected serial # range. That is why I listed mine. rj |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 2:23:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Oh I see. I thought you were going to try and contact Robert or Krista. I am happy to hear that your lower is working out fine. My 2 should be at my FFL tomorrow, and I need to get a couple of lower parts kits and get them ready for their new uppers, (that I don't have yet). 
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Posted: 2/8/2006 2:25:56 PM EDT
[#30]
i bought one of the blemmed lowers a while back. i have to show others what the blem is. no problems building on it.
Brett |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 2:42:06 PM EDT
[#31]
I have one of the blems also and three that are not blems and you can't tell them apart. I am sure RB would be happy to fix your problems. I also know that Superior Arms them self would take care of them also if you are unhappy with your lower's. I am sure they don't want to get a bad name out there for selling crap. I bet they would bend over backwards for you to make it right.
I was at Superior yesterday and talked to Jim and Leo ( 2 of the three owners) And from what i under stood is that all their lower blems are in spec's So if you feel yours is not i would give them a call or drop them an email. Superior Arms contact info E3 |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 5:18:17 PM EDT
[#32]
I downloaded the AR15 CAD files from the AR15.com main page. It appears the Superior Arms lower just meets the spec. The Ameetec Arms lower exceeded the spec by reinforcing certain areas like the front pivot bosses. The spec shows an ID of 0.251" +/- 0.001", with an overall height of 0.376" for the outside diameter of the boss. That leaves approximately 0.06" thickness. I measured about 0.051"-0.060". My Ameetec Arms measured 0.140" at that same spot. That's a significant difference.
There does not appear to be any dimensions given for the rear trigger guard hole other than diameter and distance between the trigger guard holes.  Here you can see the extra material around the front pivot boss. That's not what it shows on the circa-1993 Colt redrawn CAD file. I suspect Colt re-designed it slightly to exceed MIL-SPEC requirements. I guess some vendors like Ameetec Arms picked up on this. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 3:44:41 AM EDT
[#33]
If you measure the thickness, you will find the material to be about twice as thick as what was specified in the 1993 Colt drawing...
  Sorry to hijack the thread, this apparently isn't a blemish, just a design thing. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 2:50:08 PM EDT
[#34]
I had ordered three NEW Superior Arms lowers from RBPrecision. All three seemed to have issues of one sort or another. Running from actual cracks to stress fractures to cosmetic issues. I called Superior Arms and talked with Jim. I told him the problem, he asked a couple questions and he told me to send all three back and he would replace them all.
No FFL issues becuase it is classified as a warranty problem. The manufacturer has the choice to repare or replace at their discretion. I'm giving Superior Arms a big A+ on this. They were helpful and appologetic and were all about getting the problem fixed. Just wanted to share my experience. Hope everybody else's work out as good as mine has. Regards, PatG. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:54:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Do you have close up pics of your new receivers? Is the rear trigger guard boss still drilled awfully close to the edge?
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Posted: 2/9/2006 5:45:57 PM EDT
[#36]
I also ordered a cpl of the blem lowers at the begining of the week, however no money has been taken out of my account yet so i think i'll be taken care of after the shot show....I'll cheak out the lowers and post pix if anything is out of spec and such......thanks for the heads up all on what to look out for, hunter121
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:32:51 PM EDT
[#37]
I'll chime in. I am really anal retentive when it comes to stuff like this. I got my Superior lower last week and have it built up already. I too am a little concerned about the thin bosses and the trigger guard pin hole is really close to the bottom limit. The drilling of the holes is a little "other than round" also. Everything went together ok but I have to admit I am less than 100% confident in the lower and that means it will eventually be repalced. $75 is $75 I guess. I do recall seeing some Colt 16s we had in Iraq with thin bosses, but didn't pay much attention because I had an FN. I would be interested in what happens with these down the road. I will post pics later.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:33:38 PM EDT
[#38]
tag
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Posted: 2/9/2006 8:38:44 PM EDT
[#39]
I just sent an email to RB about my lower's issues. I asked to be able to return my lower and proposed to pay the difference for a stripped Stag lower. After reading this thread and actually looking over my lower I decided that it needed to go back. The rear takedown pin hole is oval, as is the selector lever. I know I bought it as a blem but I didn't expect the other defects. I am getting the pics up now...
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Posted: 2/10/2006 3:47:11 AM EDT
[#40]
It appears the thin bosses and poorly drilled rear trigger guard hole are part of their design. If you go to their webpage and check out the S-15, that is what it is "supposed" to look like.
Had any of the original blem buyers noticed these things, I would not have bought the Superior lower. I too thought it was just minor cosmetic blems. Instead the holes are less tahn round, and the mag well has sharp burrs to boot. These are more like QC rejects than slight blemishes. |
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Posted: 2/10/2006 6:55:59 AM EDT
[#41]
DUDES ! I have just discovered a potentially dangerous problem with my 'blem' receiver and everyone needs to check their's before firing the rifle. If you look at the buffer it should be protruding from it's well a small amount so that when the upper is closed the bolt carrier contacts the buffer and forces the buffer back a small amount . This compresses the buffer spring, puts the bolt carrier under pressure forward against the bbl extension and also removes the pressure from the buffer retainer in the receiver.
On my Superior rec the buffer is actually recessed up in the buffer tube a small amount. This means that when the upper is closed and the take down pin slid over that there is a small amount of clearance between the bolt carrier and the buffer. I can actually move the bolt carrier back and forth a small amount just using a finger in the ejection port. The buffer is always resting against the buffer retainer . I have a Colt SP1 CAR and the buffer on it sticks out from the lower nearly an 1/8". I also have a factory assembled RRA NM lower and the buffer on it sticks out nearly as far as it does on the Colt. I discovered this while comparing the looseness of the various holes in the different make rec. The only one really out of whack on my Superior is the safety holes. You can actually see the detent when looking from the rh side. If not for the buffer issue I would be satisfied. It's a military weapon, not a benchrest rifle. I am about to call Superior . rj |
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Posted: 2/10/2006 7:24:03 AM EDT
[#42]
The guy at Superior said 'Call RB'.
rj |
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Posted: 2/10/2006 9:38:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Rjay: I just spent the better part of 2 hours assembling my lower and noticed the same issues. The clearances on all the parts is absolutely atrocious. My mag catch button moves about. I can see the detent for the safety selector, and I noticed the same issue with the buffer detent. My buffer has a few "dents" from hitting the buffer retainer.
RB Precision will return next week. I am not sure what they can do other than replace it (maybe) with another Superior Arms lower. I seriously doubt they can replace it with a Stag or RRA even if we pay up a little more. At this point, I wouldn't mind paying more to step up to a better lower receiver. |
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Posted: 2/10/2006 9:41:53 AM EDT
[#44]
To All expressing concerns:
Most here are expressing concerns about Blem Lowers. If you are dissatisfied with the product I will buy them back no questions asked. If you would like to exchange it for the difference in cost to a "non blem" ( Advertised price $96.00, so $21.00 difference) I will exhange it for a lower not classified as a blem. There were a few where a scratch between the trigger holes caused a wierd look after buffing. That issue has been addressed. The trigger guard roll pin hole sometimes does get down on the forging radius for various reasons and is very hard to inspect for ovality without a gage pin. This is the first I have heard on the Carrier/ buffer contact issue, but will be investigating it this afternoon. RB is at SHOT, and is one of my distributors. I will make it right with you , as I want no question that we stand behind our product. The "spec/nonspec" around the front pivot pin is interesting. There is so much talk about be " out of spec" that If we had decided to make the boss thicker I feel we would have been criticized for that as well. If you are dissatisfied with your product IM me your phone number and arrangements will be made to satisfy you. Leo Williams Superior Arms email your phone number/ best time to contact |
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Posted: 2/11/2006 10:23:25 AM EDT
[#45]
I have a blemished lower (SN 23xx) with the Auto markings. Im not picky about cosmetic flaws at all, but mechanical flaws do worry me. Havent shot it yet but just checked out the buffer problem. I notice that my buffer does not stick out much and compared it to my other lower which sticks out more. Also noticed some marks on my buffer.
Can anyone put up a comparison pic up? Edit: My other lower has the pin 1/16" further to the front (towards magwell). Edit: Spoke with Mr. Williams on the phone (quick call back). He seems like a stand up guy and one willing to stand behind his product. If you have concerns I would call him and speak to him in person. |
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Posted: 2/11/2006 1:36:02 PM EDT
[#46]
There are several pics of assembled lowers on the Build it Yourself forum on the Assemble Your Upper, Lower....... page. Scroll down till you see a pic with a buffer. Then keep scrolling. There are more pics down where they are installing triggers or other accessory bits.
ETA: My 1980 Colt CAR buffer sticks out app .084" at the top. They do end up a bit angled. The main thing is that the buffer must be compressed enough that it is not touching the retaining pin when the upper is closed. You can possibly check this with a flashlight while slowly closing the upper and watching the bolt carrier engage the buffer. rj |
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Posted: 2/11/2006 3:12:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Now that's what I call customer service. 
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Posted: 2/11/2006 4:55:27 PM EDT
[#48]
Everything is going to be fine
rj |
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Posted: 2/11/2006 5:06:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Way to go Leo. That is the kind of customer service I like to see from a company that I just got 2 lowers from yesterday. Just for the record, I haven't installed any lpks in my lowers because RB Precision was out of the pivot pins, but from what I can see it looks like my only issues are going to be the blemishes, and they are not a big deal at all.
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Posted: 2/11/2006 6:03:25 PM EDT
[#50]
I got a blemshed lower from RB in the end of December, first one i ever put together, while i am not into the super pretty wall hnging piece (i buy guns to use them) i saw no difference from a perfectly good one. I would run out and get another from them in a second if there was a need... or an economic feesability in my world, bottom line!!!
If there is a problem with what you got, fix it try not to beat down the people who sold you the part or item. CHEERS |
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