User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/24/2005 5:09:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Yeah, there are about 8 manufacturers with alternate gas system offerings.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/24/2005 5:16:14 PM EDT
[#2]
P.O.F. www.pof-usa.com
L-W, www.leitner-wise.com Makes the two best I know of. Another company is KKF and HK. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2005 12:01:37 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a L-W gas piston converted upper, and it's awesome!
JoeLad 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 5:44:17 AM EDT
[#4]
yaaa..., L-W is the best in my opinion, i too have one & getting ready to send in another for the full treatment !!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 5:48:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Have you used a POF upper or an HK upper? Just want to know how you formed your opinion. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 5:59:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Hk doesn't sell to anyone but .mil and federal LE AGENCIES.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 5:59:46 AM EDT
[#7]
If gas is "fouling your chamber", then something is wrong.
In an AR15 gas system, the gas is fed into the bolt carrier and actuates the bolt by pressure in a gas-ring sealed chamber, which vents excess gas out the side of the carrier thru the ejection port. This does not get any gas into the chamber area under normal circumstances. Any carbon fouling in your chamber is a result of powder fouling from the barrel. The AR15 does NOT "crap where it eats". It never has. Perhaps your gas rings are worn, and getting "blow-by". Or perhaps your gas port is eroded, causing excess gas to be sent into the action because of this, and it is circulating around in your upper, causing fouling. These things are characteristic of wear taking place in your gun, and maybe some maintenance is needed. Parts do wear under use. I agree that a piston system can be clean in the feeding area, but in a properly working AR, this is not the problem it is made out to be. IMHO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 6:41:30 AM EDT
[#8]
They above post defies belief. Suggest you look at some side by side comparison pictures of piston versus impingement bolt carriers. There is no need to further explain the benefits of one over the other.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 7:17:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Okay,
ALL rifle piston systems(non-direct impingement) keep the gas out of the feeding area, no matter what brand they are. MANY high-quality piston-operated guns from various companies have been in competition against the AR15 for about 40 years now. None of them vented gas into the action area, and they all were as "clean" as any other piston action. NONE have unseated the direct-impingment gas system AR15 from its position, no matter how "dirty" anyone thinks it runs. It works, and works well. And that includes the new SCAR, which is only "under consideration" for that job, and even then in probably a limited role. The direct-gas-impingement AR15 replaced a piston operated weapon when it was adopted as the primary weapon for the US forces. I didn't bring any brand names into this. Best of luck with your quest. And yes, as I included in my previous post(and repeated in this one), a piston upper can run clean in the action area. I never said otherwise, and in fact I clearly posted that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 7:35:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Agreed! No argument there. But you missed the point.
All of the excellent qualities of the AR have been retained by all of the gas piston systems being offered. What they do is add a further dimension of reliability and usability into the system. If you are close to military procurement at the moment, you will have noticed the shift towards piston systems. All envisioned solicitations thru 2020 will require piston operation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 7:40:24 AM EDT
[#11]
That's fine with me.
If any piston-operated system can be tested and proven to be better in ALL respects, or ENOUGH respects to justify the change, then I'm all for it. So far, it hasn't happened, officially. Maybe it is due. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 7:48:31 AM EDT
[#12]
This certainly has never been discussed here before.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 7:53:24 AM EDT
[#13]
You don't need to try them all to form an opinion (although it's nice to). I've chosen L-W and feel it is the best for the following reasons: It is the gas piston system that uses the most standard parts. It is the lightest weight gas piston system. The Rail system (ARM-R) for the L-W is the lightest, doesn't raise the sights, and is very robust. Least important, I think it looks the coolest. Also it is not contraband. Others will obviously choose other systems for other reasons, you have to decide for yourself. Oh and regarding the dirty "chamber". I agree that the chamber itself wouldn't be soiled by the gas system except maybe after many many rounds, but everthing else in that upper sure gets dirty as a result of the impingment system. Imagine this, your cleaning sesson after a range trip involves, wiping down the bolt, wiping down the gas system (if you want to), swabbing the bore and chamber. I was taking the bolt apart for awhile but it's so clean in there I won't bother for a while. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 7:57:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Hey, this is AR15.com we have to discuss in detail all the same subjects at least three times a day.  The thing that I can't decide is what lower should I put on my LW upper COLT or BUSHMASTER! 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 8:06:03 AM EDT
[#15]
just rember to clean your gas system..........
my buddy has a m1a scout...... put about 800 rounds through it then let it sit for a few months........... net time we went shooting it would not cycle.... gas system was frozen solid......... same will happen with ak/sks though not as easily |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 8:18:49 AM EDT
[#16]
How could somebody go a few months without shooting?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 8:36:59 AM EDT
[#17]
It's called "matrimony".
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 9:52:15 AM EDT
[#18]
I think it has gone much past the "luck" and "quest" stage and it has nothing to do with any one company or their products. It is about extending service or improving on an already good system. Discussion is fine. Passive remarks, derrogatory IM's about individuals to potential customers is sorta creepy. Take it or leave it. I would never think to run down your product as I know nothing about them other than what you say and I am just not that kind of person to cast off your hard work with a sideline opinion. That opinion would be worthless. As stated this doesn't require any further discussion as it is has been bashed ad nauseum
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 10:37:38 AM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for the segway.....yeah, gas piston upper thread is about to be hijacked Colt - pay extra for the name, nothing more Bushmaster's Great There's only one true AR - COLT Bushmaster - master of bushes, not ARs Bushmaster, like Piston ARs, aren't authentic, so use them together and create a real bastard gun Don't dirty my Colt with no stinkin 'piston system Colt's the best and pistons are the best - marry them together for sure and you'll have the bestestest |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 11:15:23 AM EDT
[#20]
I was just being facetious.  But thanks for the tips!
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 11:24:25 AM EDT
[#21]
I know you were and you're welcome to my facetious response. I just tried to sum up some 35000 pages of Colt vs Other ARFCOM comments in a few sentences.
|
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 11:42:16 AM EDT
[#22]
You're a bad bad man.  Are you sure you weren't trying to combine a piston/ impingment, bushmaster/colt flame fest into one huge thread. That could get ugly. Oh ya, do you think I should use my LW upper with colt lower for home defense, and I was also thinking about hunting deer with it! 
|
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 11:48:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Honestly - sometimes I wish the powers that be would just give the non-paying members the same search and archive search capabilities as paying members. just so we would not see the same stuff pop up again and again as if it had never been already covered in excruciating detail and epic length as this topic has. I have never seen so many people at each others throats as I have with the subject of gas piston AR15 uppers.
I cannot even imagine that someone could post something that has not already been covered at least dozen times on this topic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 12:18:57 PM EDT
[#24]
No way...hunting deer with a Colt lower. Colt lowers were made for anti-personnel shooting and won't work for hunting. Bushmaster lowers are WAY better for hunting 'cause they're more versatile. Now, 5.56 for hunting deer is completely unethical UNLESS you use the Piston upper. Why you ask? 'Cause the extra velocity from a piston system will make the 5.56 round way, WAY more fragmentatious and/or WAY more "impactful" So, for Huntin' - Bushy and Piston For home defense - Colt and Piston Either way, it's the Piston. Hope this helps. |
||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 12:26:18 PM EDT
[#25]
IBTL
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 12:32:38 PM EDT
[#26]
What would be REALLY nice? A drop-in piston conversion. I'd be more apt to try one then.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 12:43:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Ares Defense 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 12:44:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Oh? All I saw on their website was that cool Shrike deal!
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2005 12:47:30 PM EDT
[#29]
At SHOT 2005 they were showing a drop in system.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 5:14:05 AM EDT
[#30]
that's cool !! drop in...., drop out !!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 5:38:30 AM EDT
[#31]
I also thought Leitner-wise had the uppers available in different barrel lengths, but their site doesn't show everything that I thought I saw there awhile back.
What industry dealer is selling L-W uppers??? Do L-W uppers work well with cans??? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 5:42:55 AM EDT
[#32]
1. The website is NOT the place to go for detailed info. Try the INDUSTRY section, Leitner-Wise. 2. I believe the offering for NOW is 10/11 inch, 14.5 and 16 inch barrels 3. Industry Dealers - None that I know of. Deal direct with LW 4. Cans - Yes. Go to Industry section as I believe this topic has been discussed. If not, post a question. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 5:53:25 AM EDT
[#33]
me 2....... this is easily the most locked topic in tech forums |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 12:47:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Ares Defense - The Vaporware company! How many years now have they been promising to deliver the "Shrike"? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 1:05:19 PM EDT
[#35]
+1 Definitely cutting edge... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 5:13:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't POF and DSA the same product?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 5:29:03 PM EDT
[#37]
I think the only benefit the piston system has, is the fact I can unload 3 betas in full auto and it won't melt like the gas tubes do. I can find no other use for it, and being military, i rather have the M249SAW than a converted m16 with a beta c-mag.
Any other benefits are small and of no concern to me. I'll let the civilians worry about how clean the inside of their AR's are... Mine stays clean from... get this... cleaning it. Amazing... and it only costs me a little CLP, which doesn't cost as much as a new piston system, even in the long run, bacause I'm going to have to clean other parts of the weapon anyway. buying cleaning supplies is a must, regardless of what super duper system you have.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 6:04:28 PM EDT
[#38]
You are correct. The DSA is a POF upper on a DSA lower. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 6:04:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Yes it is. For some reason, DSA seems stuck on 1/9 barrels on most of theirt products. DSA seems to be the most expensive way to get a POF, although they do build quality AR's. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 6:31:26 PM EDT
[#40]
You do not see the lack of gas in the face with a suppressor as a benefit? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 6:49:14 PM EDT
[#41]
See, THAT'S why I'd be interested in a true "drop in" conversion. No modifications, just straight DROP in. Somehow, I'm not putting my bets on Ares Defense though... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2005 7:28:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Ill wait and see what the Marines do.I have heard L&W made some piston M4s for the Marines yet I have not heard any official reports on its performance from the sand box.To L&W any word back from the Marines on how the conversion is serving them?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2005 12:14:47 AM EDT
[#43]
It aint serving them....yet. Marcorsyscom found out about it and required to review the weapon prior to any deployment and put a stop to it. Lots of politics. They have since said everything was O-KEE DO Kee.
If I told you what I know about the USMC and 2 LW products, I would be in big doo doo. It is very exciting. A unit of the 5th SFG have some on the way (got permission to post that in those vague terms) pictures of which can be found on the LW forum. They will be posting an eval and pics in the box on the LW forum. Now another SFG has ordered them in a similar config. No permission from them yet to post the group. Doc Gary Roberts has one in 6.8 he is presenting to the AF at their request. AF EOD has had one and are evaluating it and are extremely happy. Malaysian Government is evaluating it for rifle replacement programs, and SF weapons. Multiple LE agencies eval as well. LW is building a tits to nutz production facility 2005 with big time capability. I excuse those who say it is a gimmick. You don't need the facts to pull the trigger and instantly become a convert. It is uncanny to say the least. If you don't want one or don't need one, don't buy one. Don't run it down until you do shoot one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2005 4:16:10 AM EDT
[#44]
"I excuse those..." i WON'T !! i just put another 400 rounds thru my L-W converted upper two days ago, that makes about 2,000 rnds & no cleaning yet !! the only dirt/fouling i find is under the handguard near the piston vent, with a chorme lined barrel and G/P i see no need for cleaning...! just a wipe dowm with an oily rag and back to the safe !! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2005 5:10:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Yup...it's a wonder to look at the bolt and carrier after a few thousand rounds. I'm a bit more fastidious as I do run a patch down the barrel. Thus, I spend about 2 more minutes than you cleaning the gun before it goes in the safe. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2005 5:15:33 AM EDT
[#46]
The SAW and the M16 are two different animals. That said, if you actually wanted to hit anything, you'd use the M16; it's more accurate, weighs less and is more reliable! That's why the SAW is being replaced. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2005 8:00:15 AM EDT
[#47]
|
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
