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Posted: 9/12/2005 3:56:31 AM EDT
I was wondering how good of groups I can expect out of my AR. Right now I am under .50" at 100yrds. I know the gun is more accurate than I am and am wondering on how good the groups can get if I do my part. I will post pics later today.
Equip: RRA lower with two stage trigger Model 1 sales upper with 24" Stainless bull barrel and 1-9 twist (I am going to get heckled for this) BSA Platinum Target scope 8-32AO (I am going to get heckled for this too) Black Hills blue box 75Grain I am upgrading parts as I come across the spare cash but this is what I have for now. Thanks. |
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If you are consistently shooting 0.5" groups at 100 yds and it is not a fluke, I think any "upgrade" is silly and a total waste of money. Spend it on ammo.
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I bet you would see tighter groups using a good light varmint load.
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Best group I can brag about is .75" at 50yds while I was sighting in my EOTech.
That was 5 shots with Wolf 62gr. Sabre Defense 1/7 mid-length barrel. RRA lower, std. LPK, 6 pos. stock. CMT upper with EOTech 512 and ARMS 40 WIZZO |
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Bushie DCM with Nikon scope got me a .240" five shot group at 100yds. I attribute that to a great handload with Sierra 52gr match HP bullets, a Jewell 2 stage trigger, a solid rest and perfect weather.
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0.45" @ 100yds Mk12 Mod1 SPR clone with an 18" 1/7 WOA SPR barrel and 69gr SMK handloads.
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Are these center to center benchrest sized groups, or outer edge to outer edge?
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Mine is center to center. |
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100 Yards no sandbags no support from bench: Black Hills blue box 68gr Match .50-.75" Q3131 (no a) '94 55gr 1-1.5" WWB Varmint 45gr 1" Not broken in yet and the trigger pull feels like 8 lbs. Colt upper A1 20" barrel 1/7 twist A2 flash hider Stag lower Bushmaster stock Xtra power action spring (buffer spring) Shok |
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toxic's 10 round group shown here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=249166 are fairly indicative of those I and others get using 24" barreled AR15s, w/ custom loaded 77grn. SMKs.
Don't get much better than this for 10 round groups @ 100 yards......, fwiw my rifle is a CR6724 and I'm running 24.0 grains of AA2460, in Remington brass w/ Rem 7.5 BR primer, loaded mag length for my 77grn. SMKs (note: hot-load, DO NOT PUSH) BTW anyone can claim their getting 1/2 MOA, but without listing the number of rounds fired in that group, it ain't worth much to ya, info wise. Mike |
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That is where I would like to be some day! |
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Most quality ARs should be able to shoot under 1MOA. On your setup, your optics suck (for the most part) try a lighter bullet, my varminter shoots Winchester 45g varmints the best.
Also one area overlooked for accuracy is proper scope setup. I would suggest good rings, leave your scope power @ 10x, and test ammo. Have fun with your new weapon. |
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I will be the first to admit my optics suck and so does my upper. Although with the price and quality of the parts I do have I will say that it dosent do to bad. I will upgrade some day though. Why leave the power at 10X whats the advantage? |
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Nothing wrong with your upper. leaving @ 10x is more than you need, and budget scopes really don't work well (from my experience) on using power higher than 10x. Steps to Installing a Scope: Center the Windage Adjustable Ring Mounting Screws to mount parallel to bore. Use Scope Alignment Tool to be sure the rings are aligned. CLICK HERE Lap the inside of the rings using compound and the Alignment Tool. Install Scope loosely in the rings. Set eye relief (distance from strong eye to rear of Scope) and square reticule. Tighten Rings evenly. Sight in at the range. |
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Armalite DCM and Black Hills match= .200 all day long.
.280 from a prone tight sling with Iron sights. My eyes are getting weaker. Old age sucks |
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As a 5.56/223 round is .224 in diameter, perhaps you could explain how your rounds shrunk before getting to the 100 yard mark???????? Mike ps - take it these are one-shot groups too, which ain't what he's asking about...... |
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Measured center to center, chief. A .0001 group would be posssible, but not probable. The hole is usually around .400. subract one bullet width (.224) and you get a Center to Center measurement. I am sure some people measure the whole damn group bur center to center is the prefered method. Other wise a .224 bullet would automatically have more potential to be accurate than a .308 or whatever. The practice originated to equalize BR competition. Please dont speak to me in a condescending manner when you are ignorant of the subject matter. |
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center to center would mean the shots overlap, so it could be less than the diameter of the round.
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+1, Thanks |
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Read the latest Guns and Ammo. Boddington has a .300 H&H that shoots .050 groups. How do ya think he did that? |
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1.25", 10 shot group (one flyer) with standard Bushmaster 20" and TA31 ACOG (DoD) using Q3131A, in prone, bottom of magazine as support.
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So all in all I am about where I should be on average? I know I could get better if I were to practice more.
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.6" 5 shot 100 yard group, second group was .8"
77 grain moly Black Hills bluebox 20" Bushy/chrome lined with 1/9 twist Bushell 3-9X40 scope |
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Yes, your groups are very respectable. Practice will make a difference, but sounds like you have laid a solid foundation. |
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I measure outside to outside, then subtract .220. That gives you the correct center to center measurement. That being said, if you shoot 5 shots touching each other is a nice tight group, measure outside to outside (as I was taught) and subtract .220", you CAN get a group smaller than .220". For example: If you shoot 5 rounds into one hole = .220". Then subtract the .220", you get 0.00". At least that's the way the super long range guys do it. Not for score, but for group. Smallest group wins. |
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For those that care: Proper way to measure group size - outside to outside then subtract bullet size Good luck |
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Since I shoot almost exclusively XM193, my ammo is undoubtedly the limiting factor - and I am VERY happy if I get 1.5" - 2" groups at 100 yards. |
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You have probably been drinking Port again... |
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I'm with you. I guess those handloads are much more accurate. I mainly shoot Q3131 as it is veeery cheap for me (read free from agency). At 100 with EoTech I'm pleased with 2" groups. |
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My best groupings are with my 6mm PPC: Olympic SUM 24" bull barrel, Bushnell Banner 6-18x scope... el cheapo $35 free float tube... lots of other no-name parts. I use a "well broken in" hammer & trigger with lighter springs (ala 15 min. trigger job). With careful handloads (70 gr Nosler ballistic tips), it shoots sub-1/2 MOA 5 shot groups (from sandbags) pretty easily. Once in a while I get a freaky super small group but those are LUCK. You shoot enough you're bound to get lucky once in awhile!
Shal1 |
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Can I say that this thread sucks without pics?(uglygun excepted)
With good ammo if I shoot .5" groups at 100yds with optics, then I feel pretty damn good. Seydou |
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I'd be pleased with sub-MOA groups as well... |
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From another thread in the PR section:
Shot from a bench with a rest. CHRIS |
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Sorry I got busy with replacing my mail box post last night. I will try top post pictured tonight.
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Nah. Nothing special like that. Just a plain ole 4 groove. I think that anything that JN or Pacnor puts out will be a shooter. CHRIS |
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How 'bout with a carbine? What's the best you've shot with a 16" or 14.5" AR? What kind of groupings should I be getting with a standard 14.5" Bushy carbine, non free float, wwb ammo, phantom fh?
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Not if you are the bad guy on the receiving end of that "three shot group". |
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With worn-out military M4 barrels, I'm generally happy to keep all three under a dime on the 25 meter zero range. We never shoot for group further out than that. Was easier with an A2.
I shot a ragged one-holer at 25 with a M261 .22LR sub-caliber adapter through a M16A1 once, that particular combination was just great. I was almost up to what my Winchester 52C would do. |
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Ya so my dad can beat up your dad! Ya I know! but I will get better in time. ETA: How heavy are your target AR's? Mine is weighing in at around 17lbs. I sure as hell wouldnt want to carry it very far! |
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20 inch v-match bushmaster.
3.5-10 power nikon scope. from the bench. 5/8" five shot group. Using south african surplus. |
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