To make a long story short, I've looked thruout this sight and asked upon my friends at 1911forum for guidance, but the world of ARs is large and confusing... I like the midsized rifles with the 16" barrels and the collapseable stocks seem cool (however I don't know if I really need one) and with all the different brand names and model configurations I'm confused as hell!

I'm leaning at buying a RockRiver but haven't discounted the other brands, heck I've even considered rolling my own but I doubt that would save me any money (and it would take longer).

What would you guys suggest for an AR Jeff

If you are considering buying a complete rifle, Id suggest looking at the Bushmaster, Rock River Arms or COLT line of rifles... Ive had them all and they are all top self,  some a bit more pricey than others though... Depending on what your intentions are for its use, is what you would consider when deciding what type of AR to buy...

Busmaster will probably be cheaper, Colt will be most expensive and RRA will be in between, but closer to bushmaster prices. Quality wise, you can't tell them apart and your lieing if you say you can. I would find some local gun stores and see what they have to play with. Get which ever model feels best.

I wouldn't build one....yet. I know you're new and black rifle disese hasn't kicked it full yet, but it will. I'd buy your first one or 2 and then when you're used to the design and function, start collecting parts to build a good one. Lots of good info on the Build Your Own section here. I've built 2.5 with nothing more then info from this site.

Quoted: Busmaster will probably be cheaper, Colt will be most expensive and RRA will be in between, but closer to bushmaster prices. Quality wise, you can't tell them apart and your lieing if you say you can.

It takes more than just looking at something to tell the differences in quality.

If you are just blasting or plinking with it, go for the Rock River first, Bushy second.  If you want to pay for the name and a few extra things you wont be able to tell the diff on, buy the colt.  
The best bet would be to find some folks in your area and shoot some diff mfg's and or a shop that will allow you to fondle a few.

Good luck.  Just remember, buy cheap, buy twice.

There are many other good choices out there - to name a few:
Armalite
Colt
Stag
DS Arms
Fulton Armory
CMMG
POF
Leitner-Wise
LMT
Cav Arms
Eagle Arms
Sabre


Not to mention excellent builds with quality parts by great vendors such as GandR tactical, BravocompanyUSA, Quantico Arms, RBPrecision, MSTN and the like.

Quoted: img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/darowden/flock_of_sheep.jpg

Bushmaster 16in Carbine with Bird Cage Flash Suppressor
Shouldn't be hard to find one in stock at a Gun Store for less than $850.

Quoted: To make a long story short, I've looked thruout this sight and asked upon my friends at 1911forum for guidance, but the world of ARs is large and confusing... I like the midsized rifles with the 16" barrels and the collapseable stocks seem cool (however I don't know if I really need one) and with all the different brand names and model configurations I'm confused as hell! I'm leaning at buying a RockRiver but haven't discounted the other brands, heck I've even considered rolling my own but I doubt that would save me any money (and it would take longer). What would you guys suggest for an AR ? TIA, Jeff

Jeff, what are you going to use the weapon for? How do you want it outfitted? How much are you budgeting? The answers to these questions will help. Since you are a "Newbie" (I hate this term), you can be influenced by a lot of hipe you see here. To ask the question, "Which AR should I buy", brings out the same old stuff. When I bought my first AR, which was several months ago, I did the research myself. Since I was already familiar with the weapons (prior military), I pretty new what to look for. After several months of researching on the internet and reading magazine articles, I decided on buying a DPMS Panther Carbine ($789). I could have spent more, but for the money, I got an excellent weapon. IMHO, the quality mirrors that of RRA, Colt, and even Bushmaster. The fit and finish on my Panther Carbine is just as good, if not better, than some of the military Colt  M16A1s and A2s that I have used. IMO, to buy a Colt, RRA, or Bushy is to buy what the majority buys due to the name. They are quality weapons, but they are not the only quality weapons out there. Jump on the manafacturers websites and take look at what they have to offer. www.dpmsinc.com, www.colt.com, www.bushmaster.com, and www.rockriverarms.com. I am getting ready to order my second DPMS AR (a customized AP4 Panther Carbine) soon. Good luck with your decision.

Quoted: Quoted: To make a long story short, I've looked thruout this sight and asked upon my friends at 1911forum for guidance, but the world of ARs is large and confusing... I like the midsized rifles with the 16" barrels and the collapseable stocks seem cool (however I don't know if I really need one) and with all the different brand names and model configurations I'm confused as hell! I'm leaning at buying a RockRiver but haven't discounted the other brands, heck I've even considered rolling my own but I doubt that would save me any money (and it would take longer). What would you guys suggest for an AR ? TIA, Jeff Jeff, what are you going to use the weapon for? How do you want it outfitted? How much are you budgeting? The answers to these questions will help. Since you are a "Newbie" (I hate this term), you can be influenced by a lot of hipe you see here. To ask the question, "Which AR should I buy", brings out the same old stuff. When I bought my first AR, which was several months ago, I did the research myself. Since I was already familiar with the weapons (prior military), I pretty new what to look for. After several months of researching on the internet and reading magazine articles, I decided on buying a DPMS Panther Carbine ($789). I could have spent more, but for the money, I got an excellent weapon. IMHO, the quality mirrors that of RRA, Colt, and even Bushmaster. The fit and finish on my Panther Carbine is just as good, if not better, than some of the military Colt  M16A1s and A2s that I have used. IMO, to buy a Colt, RRA, or Bushy is to buy what the majority buys due to the name. They are quality weapons, but they are not the only quality weapons out there. Jump on the manafacturers websites and take look at what they have to offer. www.dpmsinc.com, www.colt.com, www.bushmaster.com, and www.rockriverarms.com. I am getting ready to order my second DPMS AR (a customized AP4 Panther Carbine) soon. Good luck with your decision.

There you have it Jeff, Those DPMS AR's are suppose to look and feel nicer than a used beat up military COLT M16... You had better run right out and get yourself one... And as we all know, you 'll never find better advice than from someone that had recently purchased their "first" AR...

Quoted: Quoted: Busmaster will probably be cheaper, Colt will be most expensive and RRA will be in between, but closer to bushmaster prices. Quality wise, you can't tell them apart and your lieing if you say you can. It takes more than just looking at something to tell the differences in quality.

+1

both are $759 plus shipping for a Bushy new in the box, you really can't beat that price.

oh, yeah the seller is www.aimsurplus.com

just make sure you find a local FFL that will give you a cheap transfer, like $15 or $20, or sometimes less.

or even better, and more beneficial for future builds, go to del-ton.com and get an M4gery or 20" kit complete minus stripped lower receiver, for around $500.  So in total, plus maybe $100 for a stripped receiver you'll pay about $600.  Plus you get the benefit of putting the lower together yourself (it's so easy, I did it right the first time, assembled it in my living room ).

-mark

I personally like Stag Arms, they have some of the best quality stuff around, probally the best, I would recommend anyhthing they put out there.

Jeff,
      Look around, and do your homework.
Some would say ( and have ), buy your first AR as a compleat Rifle.
If you go that route, that is fine, You can't go wrong with any of the major Brands, like RRA, Bushy, Armalite, Colt, and yes DPMS, and there are a few others.

If you can change the oil in your car, or maby even change the spark plugs, you can build an AR.
Just take your time, ask questions, and buy quality parts.

ETA: +1 on Stag having some of the best stuff out there.

Quoted: ....There you have it Jeff, Those DPMS AR's are suppose to look and feel nicer than a used beat up military COLT M16... You had better run right out and get yourself one... And as we all know, you 'll never find better advice than from someone that had recently purchased their "first" AR...

Just so you will know for future reference, I have never used a "used beat up military COLT M16". The M16A1s, A2s, and CARs I used have been in almost new condition. Also, just becuase I have recently purchased my first AR, does not mean I do not know what I am talking about when it comes to comparing ARs. I have been familiar with the weapon since 1978. Albeit, I am no expert, but I have the experience and I have done my homework. I was advising Jeff to make the decision based on a variety of resources he can utilize. In addition, I was also giving my opinions. An opinion is described as a belief, notion, view, sentiment, conception, idea, surmise, impression, inference, conjecture, and several other synonyms. Opinions are not to be taken as fact.

Back to you Jeff, do not let the bickering about which weapon is the best deter you from buying what you want. I feel great about mine and if someone does not like what I bought, oh well. They are entitled to their OPINION.

Well, everyone is waiting for another "newbie" to chime in who's got it all figured out...  So here I am...  

Seriously, I'm just getting hooked on the AR and have four now in various configurations.  I have a Colt, Bushy, and two DPMS units.  I've never had a lick of trouble with the exception of the mistakes I personnally made...  I put in an extra light trigger on a Colt varmint unit and had some issues, but that was my modification.  

I enjoy them more than i ever thought i would.  Some of the other guys may be able to shed light on this, so I'll let them tell the tale - I'm betting if you're a 1911 guy you'll start tinkering with whatever you buy and the trigger may be part of that, or possibly upper/lower swaps, etc.  I learned the hard way that Colt has (or for some time) has/had a larger sized pin for the fire control group and some different ways to attach upper and lower receivers together.  Not that you can't get around it or that parts aren't offered, but in my travels thus far I can't help but wonder if the small pin trigger and quick take down pin configuration (rather than rear pin and front screw) isn't the easiest to find a great selection of parts for...

I think i may have just confused myself - hopefully you understand...  That's all I have to say about that...

Enjoy your shooting!

-Michael

Quoted: Well, everyone is waiting for another "newbie" to chime in who's got it all figured out...  So here I am...   Seriously, I'm just getting hooked on the AR and have four now in various configurations.  I have a Colt, Bushy, and two DPMS units.  I've never had a lick of trouble with the exception of the mistakes I personnally made...  I put in an extra light trigger on a Colt varmint unit and had some issues, but that was my modification.   I enjoy them more than i ever thought i would.  Some of the other guys may be able to shed light on this, so I'll let them tell the tale - I'm betting if you're a 1911 guy you'll start tinkering with whatever you buy and the trigger may be part of that, or possibly upper/lower swaps, etc.  I learned the hard way that Colt has (or for some time) has/had a larger sized pin for the fire control group and some different ways to attach upper and lower receivers together.  Not that you can't get around it or that parts aren't offered, but in my travels thus far I can't help but wonder if the small pin trigger and quick take down pin configuration (rather than rear pin and front screw) isn't the easiest to find a great selection of parts for... I think i may have just confused myself - hopefully you understand...  That's all I have to say about that... Enjoy your shooting! -Michael

Yes the COLTS have .170 trigger/hammer pins compared to the standard .154 pins...  And to those of you that already didn't know, most of the replacement parts cost a good bit more too... But besides those few differences, COLT still manufactures an AR that's hard to beat

Hey critics, please be kind, I said hard to beat, not impossible to beat

Thanks for the many and quick replies! To get 17 hits in one afternoon is awesome... I appreciate the effort guys.

C4 I'm from Manassas and just now moving to Vienna, near the NRA range in Fairfax. I have access to a great gun store (Virginia Arms in Manassas),  and there is quite the selection of Bushys, RRAs, and Armalites. Up the road is another shop (Security Associates) and they are high into the ARs as well... I don't know all the brands they carry but my brother got a killer deal on an Eagle Arms A2... very nice rifle.

I want one to obviously plink, plink, and plink some more, yet also serve as some serious home defense! I don't feel the need for all the rails and gizmos (yet) and thought I liked the standard A2 set up before I started shopping the net, now I'm liking the "M4" type rifles more.

I appreciate the advice to purchase my first rather than build my first. Rock River Arms website alone gives me more options than I know what to do with.

Do I need a chrome lined barrel?
Are A4 rear sights as sturdy as an A2's?
Are the carbine actions anyless reliable than the full size 20"?
Do any makers use inferior internal parts compared to their competition?
Collapsable stocks, are they worth it?

The simple approach works for me, an A2 would suit me fine I think, but I wouldn't want to miss out on something more fun or versatile.

Quoted: Thanks for the many and quick replies! To get 17 hits in one afternoon is awesome... I appreciate the effort guys. You dont realize to ask this question and not have your post turned into a colt vs everyone else was a major feat.  Congrats! Do I need a chrome lined barrel? YES Are A4 rear sights as sturdy as an A2's?  DUNNO Are the carbine actions anyless reliable than the full size 20"? BUY BOTH? Do any makers use inferior internal parts compared to their competition? DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK Collapsable stocks, are they worth it?  YUP! LOP adjustment for clothing is a great thing! The simple approach works for me

Your last comment hit the mark.  My suggestion would be get either a M4 profile, or 16" carbine in a A3 config and shoot your irons untill you are comfortable with them and can easily hit targets at the range you like to shoot.  After that, when you want to add an optic, you can remove the carry handle and go to town

Thanks petagunner h.gif

That makes sense to me... an A3 type upper (easy to upgrade), and the adjustable LOP for different clothing...makes my deciding on the collapsable stock easier too.

Get a Bushy Patrolmans carbine w/ A3 upper. Aimsurplus has them in stock for like $819. YOu cant beat that price.

Heres a pic of my Patrolman. It is a great rifle. It has run flawlessly so far with about 1500rds through it. Yeah I know I need a BUIS.

Quoted: img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/darowden/flock_of_sheep.jpg There are many other good choices out there - to name a few: Armalite Colt Stag DS Arms Fulton Armory CMMG POF Leitner-Wise LMT Cav Arms Eagle Arms Sabre Not to mention excellent builds with quality parts by great vendors such as GandR tactical, BravocompanyUSA, Quantico Arms, RBPrecision, MSTN and the like.

so true

Hi Jeff,

Welcome aboard!

My $0.02 here is, basically, don't sweat it.

Pick one of the major manufacturers that has a configuration you like and that your pocketbook is happy about. Put a few thousand rounds down the pipe the ask yourself if the rifle is living up to your expectations.

If the answer is YES, then you picked yourself a winner. If the answer is NO, then you'll know what mods you want in your NEXT rifle.

It's too easy to get sucked into the "brand wars." Just pick a rifle from one of the above-mentioned manufacturers and then shoot the hell out of it. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Best of luck to you.

Quoted: Do I need a chrome lined barrel? Are A4 rear sights as sturdy as an A2's? Are the carbine actions anyless reliable than the full size 20"? Do any makers use inferior internal parts compared to their competition? Collapsable stocks, are they worth it? The simple approach works for me, an A2 would suit me fine I think, but I wouldn't want to miss out on something more fun or versatile.

chrome lined means much, much less cleaning, and easier cleaning. Stainless and chome-moly are more accurate though, but most rifles can outshoot the shooter, regardless of lined or not.

an a4 has a flattop upper rail allowing you to add the sights you want, whereas the a2 has permanently attached sights on the carry handle. so in a way they are more sturdy, but a4 added-on iron sights wil take more of a beating than I suggest you try.

carbine length is great, but the recoil is a little bit more, the action gets dirtier, the chamber gets dirtier, but I think that most people have a one or the other, making them both fine for our uses.

most parts from the name brands are the same, except for colts oddly sized parts, and they all work great. just make sure you are buying a REAL  rra, bushy, colt, whatever...

I love collapsible stocks, they add to a rifle, making it much more versatile and reducing weight. There are advantages to the fixed stock, but it depends on your use.

ps. it is easier to mount optics on an A4 and have them cowitness with your iron sights than on a carry handle. remember- flattop=more options.

Okay guys, I looked today and fondled several ARs...

I found that I do in fact have to have a collapseable stock. I notice I have length of pull issues( I like the stock pulled out about halfway) and I don't like the way the A2 stock sling loop digs right at my chest...

Also noticed I do have to have a hogue grip (ala RRA) since my fingers don't quite fit the standard grip that well.

Now there's a new issue... I help a 14.5" Bushmaster  (Very cool h...
Also, the RRA 16" Carbine I looked at had a much wider handguard... I don't like it. Is it replaceable with a standard Bushmaster style handguard?

Barrels and handguards...

Almost got it figgered out but need to know:

What's the difference between RRAs with the R4 handguard and a regular CAR handguard, are they interchangeable?

Some 16" rifles come with a mid-length handguard while others have the short CAR hanguard. Can I swap between these on the same barrel? It doesn't look possible...

What's the difference with a standard 16" barrel and the "M4" barrel (the M4 looks thicker but is tapered down in the middle)?