I measured the total length and it is 16 and 1/16 inches.  I just used 2 crush washers and it is long enough being that the f/h is pinned.  Check it out.  

How much of the threads on the barrel are being engaged by the FH?

Quoted: How much of the threads on the barrel are being engaged by the FH?

ARfcom consensus seems to be that this type of setup is not safe because not enough threads are being engaged.

I'd get one of CMMG's 14.7's with perm. A2. Safer.

OK, random option:

You've got two A2's there.
Is it even possible to bandsaw the threaded part for the wrench,
TIG it to the other A2 (basically creating more threads)
Then pin it on?

Just an idea...

Quoted: ARfcom consensus seems to be that this type of setup is not safe because not enough threads are being engaged. I'd get one of CMMG's 14.7's with perm. A2. Safer.

I've heard the same on the threads.

Sabre is making an extended A2 flash hider now, that will make a 14.5 legal length, if you don't want to invest in a new barrel.

Quoted: OK, random option: You've got two A2's there. Is it even possible to bandsaw the threaded part for the wrench, TIG it to the other A2 (basically creating more threads) Then pin it on? Just an idea...

....or you could just sell the 14.5" barrel on the EE and use the money to offset the cost of a new 16" barrel instead of trying to half-ass bubba the whoel deal...

I know, I know!

Just another excuse to bust out the welder, ya'dig?

I know that everybody wants this for the "military look", but the double washer looks just about as unmilitary as anything I've seen.  Additionally, if I were an ATF agent, I could immediately tell that you have a barrel that is less than 16" with a FH that shouldn't make your setup over 16" and I'd be crawling up and down your rig with a magnifying glass.  TIFWIW.

Quoted: Quoted: OK, random option: You've got two A2's there. Is it even possible to bandsaw the threaded part for the wrench, TIG it to the other A2 (basically creating more threads) Then pin it on? Just an idea... ....or you could just sell the 14.5" barrel on the EE and use the money to offset the cost of a new 16" barrel instead of trying to half-ass bubba the whoel deal...

OR, like me and hundreds of others, sees absolutely no reason in having a 16" carbine barrel with an A2 at the end.  I've got a 16" barrel with an A2 on the end, but it's a SS middy.  When I go for the M4 look again, It will be after I SBR my existing lower or a new one.  Up until recently I thought I'd go with a CMMG upper, but am no longer liking the idea of having a permanent flashider even though it will keep me from tinkerin' when I shouldn't...

Quoted: Additionally, if I were an ATF agent, I could immediately tell that you have a barrel that is less than 16" with a FH that shouldn't make your setup over 16" and I'd be crawling up and down your rig with a magnifying glass.

No offense intended Mongo but if you were an agent you'd probably have other things that require your time and unless the possessor of such firearm were presenting other "issues" you'd likely not have the need or opportunity to inspect the firearm anyway. If someone is having their barrel involuntarily rodded then it's either to confirm the obvious or to tack on additional charges to a more serious offense.

Quoted: Quoted: Additionally, if I were an ATF agent, I could immediately tell that you have a barrel that is less than 16" with a FH that shouldn't make your setup over 16" and I'd be crawling up and down your rig with a magnifying glass. No offense intended Mongo but if you were an agent you'd probably have other things that require your time and unless the possessor of such firearm were presenting other "issues" you'd likely not have the need or opportunity to inspect the firearm anyway. If someone is having their barrel involuntarily rodded then it's either to confirm the obvious or to tack on additional charges to a more serious offense.

If I were an agent and ran across this setup, by chance, I'd make the time.  By all normal conventions, this has the look of an illegal setup.

And of course, I'd have to confiscate the rifle, so it can be sent to a lab for "official" measurement.  I'd also need all your personal information and would likely have you come with me for a little talk.

In the mean time, you had better have the rest of your ducks in a row, as you have now got the full and undivided attention of an agent, some of which really like to ruin people's days, likely.


And now back to reality.  What is gained by this setup?  What is lost by going with the normal Vortex/Phantom?  What is gained with a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached anything?  What is lost by going with a 16" barrel and an A2?

just perm attach an izzy or phantom fh.

Smith jam nut, A2 peel washer, A1 lock washer.

Either SBR, go with the CMMG 14.7" one, or go with the perm Phantom.

Just so you know, though: The online pictures of the 16" M4 barrel make it look bad. In real life, it actually looks pretty awesome. I got to hold a 16" Mega M4gery yesterday at the fun show and I couldn't believe what a difference there was between the real thing and pics online. It is really nice. I would rather have a 14.5" of course but still. Whatever floats your boat.

ETA: Ekie, that looks pretty nice...

Quoted: What is gained by this setup?  What is lost by going with the normal Vortex/Phantom?  What is gained with a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached anything?  What is lost by going with a 16" barrel and an A2?

You’re a highly regarded member here and I’m not trying to be disrespectful but I think it is important to make a distinction between preference and legality. There are plenty of justifiable reasons to prefer a 16 inch barrel and the 14.5” v. 16” thing has been done and is really not the topic of this thread.

Quoted: If I were an agent and ran across this setup, by chance, I'd make the time.  By all normal conventions, this has the look of an illegal setup.

It may catch your eye but then after a second look you’d recognize that there is something different – and additional spacer/washer extending the length.

Quoted: And of course, I'd have to confiscate the rifle, so it can be sent to a lab for "official" measurement.  I'd also need all your personal information and would likely have you come with me for a little talk. In the mean time, you had better have the rest of your ducks in a row, as you have now got the full and undivided attention of an agent, some of which really like to ruin people's days, likely.

All of this could equally be applied to any 14.5” barrel. The barrel is clearly not 16” in and of itself.

Hmm, It looks like a Vortex but how do I know it really is a Vortex?

How do I know it isn’t a shortened version of a Vortex designed to trick me?

How do I know it is permanently attached?

The list of “what if’s” goes on and on.


If you feel more secure in your choice of a 16” barrel, that’s fine. However, the rifles posted by ar_mcadams and Ekie are perfectly legal provided the muzzle device is permanently attached and the length is not less than 16”. There is no law specifying what brand/style of muzzle device must be used. If it is a legally configured firearm, the possessor is not a prohibited person, and it is being used in accordance with state and federal laws there’s no reason to try to persuade readers that they may loose their firearm or jeopardize their freedom simply because their firearm isn’t configured to your personal preference.

Quoted: Quoted: What is gained by this setup?  What is lost by going with the normal Vortex/Phantom?  What is gained with a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached anything?  What is lost by going with a 16" barrel and an A2? You’re a highly regarded member here and I’m not trying to be disrespectful but I think it is important to make a distinction between preference and legality. There are plenty of justifiable reasons to prefer a 16 inch barrel and the 14.5” v. 16” thing has been done and is really not the topic of this thread. Quoted: If I were an agent and ran across this setup, by chance, I'd make the time.  By all normal conventions, this has the look of an illegal setup. It may catch your eye but then after a second look you’d recognize that there is something different – and additional spacer/washer extending the length. Quoted: And of course, I'd have to confiscate the rifle, so it can be sent to a lab for "official" measurement.  I'd also need all your personal information and would likely have you come with me for a little talk. In the mean time, you had better have the rest of your ducks in a row, as you have now got the full and undivided attention of an agent, some of which really like to ruin people's days, likely. All of this could equally be applied to any 14.5” barrel. The barrel is clearly not 16” in and of itself. Hmm, It looks like a Vortex but how do I know it really is a Vortex? How do I know it isn’t a shortened version of a Vortex designed to trick me? How do I know it is permanently attached? The list of “what if’s” goes on and on. If you feel more secure in your choice of a 16” barrel, that’s fine. However, the rifles posted by ar_mcadams and Ekie are perfectly legal provided the muzzle device is permanently attached and the length is not less than 16”. There is no law specifying what brand/style of muzzle device must be used. If it is a legally configured firearm, the possessor is not a prohibited person, and it is being used in accordance with state and federal laws there’s no reason to try to persuade readers that they may loose their firearm or jeopardize their freedom simply because their firearm isn’t configured to your personal preference.

It's alot of work for what?  I still question the legality of it, personally.  It's your yard stick vs. theirs.  FWIW, I also question the mechanical integrity of it.

Do what you want.  I've been down this road a couple of times and for what it gets me, the risk of harassment of any type isn't worth the product.  I've got a Colt M4 barrel that measures out at 14.625" to closed bolt.  I could probably get 16.0001" with an A2 FH and one thick crush washer.  It's not worth it to me.  YMDV.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Additionally, if I were an ATF agent, I could immediately tell that you have a barrel that is less than 16" with a FH that shouldn't make your setup over 16" and I'd be crawling up and down your rig with a magnifying glass. No offense intended Mongo but if you were an agent you'd probably have other things that require your time and unless the possessor of such firearm were presenting other "issues" you'd likely not have the need or opportunity to inspect the firearm anyway. If someone is having their barrel involuntarily rodded then it's either to confirm the obvious or to tack on additional charges to a more serious offense. If I were an agent and ran across this setup, by chance, I'd make the time.  By all normal conventions, this has the look of an illegal setup. And of course, I'd have to confiscate the rifle, so it can be sent to a lab for "official" measurement.  I'd also need all your personal information and would likely have you come with me for a little talk. In the mean time, you had better have the rest of your ducks in a row, as you have now got the full and undivided attention of an agent, some of which really like to ruin people's days, likely. And now back to reality.  What is gained by this setup?  What is lost by going with the normal Vortex/Phantom?  What is gained with a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached anything?  What is lost by going with a 16" barrel and an A2?

so you would take time to try and get a charge on a gun owner becuase you didnt like his setup?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Additionally, if I were an ATF agent, I could immediately tell that you have a barrel that is less than 16" with a FH that shouldn't make your setup over 16" and I'd be crawling up and down your rig with a magnifying glass. No offense intended Mongo but if you were an agent you'd probably have other things that require your time and unless the possessor of such firearm were presenting other "issues" you'd likely not have the need or opportunity to inspect the firearm anyway. If someone is having their barrel involuntarily rodded then it's either to confirm the obvious or to tack on additional charges to a more serious offense. If I were an agent and ran across this setup, by chance, I'd make the time.  By all normal conventions, this has the look of an illegal setup. And of course, I'd have to confiscate the rifle, so it can be sent to a lab for "official" measurement.  I'd also need all your personal information and would likely have you come with me for a little talk. In the mean time, you had better have the rest of your ducks in a row, as you have now got the full and undivided attention of an agent, some of which really like to ruin people's days, likely. And now back to reality.  What is gained by this setup?  What is lost by going with the normal Vortex/Phantom?  What is gained with a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached anything?  What is lost by going with a 16" barrel and an A2? so you would take time to try and get a charge on a gun owner becuase you didnt like his setup?

If my yardstick showed that he wasn't legal, my suspicions would have been correct.  If it measured legal, my mistake.  It has nothing to do with whether or not I like it, but it does have everything to do with me being able to identify an iffy setup when I see one.  That should, after all, be part of my job to be able to identify iffy setups, like this, or maybe like being able to spot a sear pin in a lower, etc., etc.  I'm playing the Devil's Advocate here, being the evil ATF agent, who probably doesn't give two hoots about anybody's gun rights if he/she feels something illegal is going on.

Lets all be thankful that you are NOT in law enforcement.

I think it would look better with along flash hider or a perm attached 14.7" barrel.  Longer flash hider would have better function as a flash hider too.  Have you onsiderd a closed bottom Phantom with non scalloped ends?  Looks a lot like an A2.

Phantom is a more effective F/H than the A2 anyway!!

Quoted: Phantom is a more effective F/H than the A2 anyway!!

+1

especially if you are going with a 14in barrel.

I used the sabre unit on my 14.5" colt. It looks great, and i prefer it to a standard a2. Hey Mongo, do you have a job?

Quoted: I used the sabre unit on my 14.5" colt. It looks great, and i prefer it to a standard a2. Hey Mongo, do you have a job?

Yep.  I'm at work right now.  I was at work yesterday and Saturday, also.  Today is my eighth work day in a row.  I've had one day off in the last fourteen.  I can cruise ARFCOM on down time.

I'd bet alot of you think I'm some fat, old, retired guy.  You'd be surprised a little.

You know....if you have Gemtech mount up a Bi-Lock perm. on a 14.5" barrel it will meet 16" minimum length, and if you wat a M4-96D later on than you would be ready!

i had a mini y on my 14.5 to make it 16 but it pissed me off so i cut it off and stuck one of those a2  fh. how long is it? i dont know nor do i care, but i didnt stick no two damn crush washers on there ether.

Quoted: i had a mini y on my 14.5 to make it 16 but it pissed me off so i cut it off and stuck one of those a2  fh. how long is it? i dont know nor do i care, but i didnt stick no two damn crush washers on there ether.

I don't think that's something you would want to publisize

why? is someone here gonna run to my house with there tape and report me to the ATF? i went shooting this past weekend with 4 local sherrifs and they had no clue. I think ill be fine, granted ive had some things i own mesured but it wasnt on the black gun.

Quoted: why? is someone here gonna run to my house with there tape and report me to the ATF? i went shooting this past weekend with 4 local sherrifs and they had no clue. I think ill be fine, granted ive had some things i own mesured but it wasnt on the black gun.