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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:08:35 PM EDT
[#1]
I kinda like the 20" rifles over the carbines.
I have 2 of each, and the 16" are fun to shoot, but I just plain don't have problems with my 20" rifles. I don't know. 20" if I am constantly out and have room to use an ACOG. M4 w/EOTech 552 if I'm clearing houses every day. Warning: Everything above is my OPINION in a theoretical setting. Worth what you payed for it. WIZZO |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:00:32 PM EDT
[#2]
I believe that the M4 is a far superior weapon for general issue. In the civilain world, the M4 type weapon makes even more sense, as civilians who solve interpersonal disagreements with rifles tend to do so at very short range.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:03:16 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:23:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Being a Marine whenever we see a soldier or someone with an M4 we all drool over it, like it's the greatest thing ever.
I don't think they look at our M16A4s and do the same thing. That's just how I see it, they'd be easier to carry, faster to acquire targets, and great for urban areas (the M4s). And personally I don't think I've ever seen a shot taken much over 150m anyway in combat. At what distance does the M4 start to lose it's punch anyway? |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:26:42 PM EDT
[#5]
The M4 is the winner IMO, which is just an LEO opinion, but the M16A4 looks damn cool with optics and a vert grip!
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:33:10 PM EDT
[#6]
I do. Time to get real. In the civilian world engagement ranges will be very short (they generally are in the military context these days also). The urban environment dominates these days. That means vehicles and buildings. I'll take the maneuverability of a 16" or less gun any day. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:36:41 PM EDT
[#7]
M4 MWS, all my Marines who have the A4 want one of the few M4s I have.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:59:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Door kicking: M4 with associated gadgets...
Open areas: A4 + bipod, 4x or higher power scope.... |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 4:09:22 PM EDT
[#9]
I agree with Lumpy. I had a chance this spring to talk at length with several veterans of the Battle of Fallujah. They said the longest shots they got with small arms were 35m or so. Thats pistol range, folks. They didn't need a 4x scope and a 200m fragmentation range. The slight loss of terminal ballistics is completey made up for by the light weight and short length of the carbine. As a civilian, I believe my defensive needs would be best served by a 10.5 or 11.5 inch barrel. Something short and light. I compromise and end up with a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel, because of the NFA. Realistically speaking, in the unlikely event that I ever take a carbine to a self defense shooting, its going to be inside of 25m. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 4:12:19 PM EDT
[#10]
It would appear that a mix of reflex sights and magnified optics really enhances a small units performance. The Marines I talked to said that at the beginning of the war they would sometimes encounter groups of people at 1 or 2 hundred meters. The guy with the ACOG would peer through the scope, and would decide whether to, and who to fire on. ALL he would have to say is "take the two on the left" and the guys with iron or reflex sights would roll them up. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 4:12:25 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't know, theres something about a full size 20 inch AR that just feels super balanced to me. I like the way they look, feel and shoot. But they are long, not heavy to me but long.
M4 looks cool as well, but I'm talking about the 14.5 inch barrel and older style CAR stock. From the first time I saw a M4 with ACOG, M203, and KAC silencer I thought to myself THAT is how a M4 should look period!  |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 5:06:46 PM EDT
[#12]
110% |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:09:28 PM EDT
[#13]
M4, hands down, especially with decent ammo.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:25:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmm I'm in no way an expert and in no way totally knownledgable about the AR-15...M4 what have you....that is not yet. That being said IMHO...
The way I see it you have to look at what the individual is using the rifle for before you say OH this is totally better than this. If we are talking military I would have to agree with everyone that the M4 is the gun for todays army...urban comabt. However if we are talking the average joe who shoots at the range than I'm going to have to go with the AR-15(or M16 if we are trying to stick to M4vsM16)...the reason is the AR with its 20 in. barrel is just better for shooting at the range...more accurate. If your looking at it for home defense realistically what do you think the chances of needing it or it being in the right spot when you need are going to be? If I'm trying to defend my home I think I'll stick with a Glock and a pump shotgun  . |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 9:42:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Are you asking about this to see what we think which one is "best", or because you want to get one for personal use?
If the latter is the case, why stick to a Government spec rifle? There is MUCH better out there, mostly COMERCIAL design parts...and the AR is indeed a parts gun, so pick what YOU think is the "best", build your own, and there, you have it, the "best" rifle... My best? Well, since you asked: Flattop 16" Midlength, Larue 9.0, PRI folding front sight/gas block, VLTOR telestock, Aimpoint/ACOG (undecided!) |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 7:07:23 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/21/2005 7:49:09 AM EDT
[#17]
If I ever want to shoot KD matches - I'll take the A4, but the M4 is a much more effective combat weapon. - Whats good about the extra 70 of frag with M855 if it is so awkward clearing houses... I'll take the gun I can deploy quickly.
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:13:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Get Both!
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:35:15 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 8/21/2005 8:56:30 AM EDT
[#20]
i like the 20 inch. thats why i have the bushmaster 308! might as well knock the piss out of them, and butt stroke the MoFos. i'll leave the room clearing for all you younger folks with the M4 or the AR15 m4 types!
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Posted: 8/21/2005 9:28:23 AM EDT
[#21]
I have all of them but I would hope my son has access to a SOCOM for either scenario.
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Posted: 8/21/2005 9:29:13 AM EDT
[#22]
I would go with the M4. The 14.5" barrel makes the gun fell more balanced. Here is a true M4(RO977)
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Posted: 8/21/2005 9:39:18 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 8/21/2005 10:27:48 AM EDT
[#24]
I like both. I had the A4 in Iraq and it did very well. I was never issued an M4 but seeing 1-24 Infantry's M4's, man the Army hooks it up.
Max |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 1:17:10 PM EDT
[#25]
That's a bold statement. |
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Posted: 8/21/2005 1:46:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Um - no. The 20" barrel doesn't really make the rifle any more inherently accurate than a 16" barrel (except for a longer sight radius, and less bullet drop at extended ranges) Not trying to pick on you - just a factual correction. |
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