I recently sold off a Bushy .308 that wasn't quite up to the top shelf Nikon Tacticle 4-16X50 scope I had mounted up...my intention is to find a nice bolt gun like savages Mcmillan stocked LE-10 in .308 for that scope...meanwhile?...I was looking at FALs but...a gun dealer friend called me a day or two ago as he just got in 3 Bushmaster A2 16in Carbines and has one left over he'll deal me for $835....my questions are....

1. Hows the reliablity of the Bushmaster A2 16in Carbines been?

2. Hows the longevity of the Bushmaster A2 16in Carbines been?

and finally...

3. Assuming I'm a crack shot?...hows the accuracy of Bushmasters A2 16in Carbines been?...in other words...with a proper sighting system can it keep'em all in a paper plate at 200 yards?

T.I.A. Bill.

Okay....c'mon now folks....somebody hasta have some experience and justa give ya a little background....

I served in the USMC using my standard issue Colt M-16 A2 which imho performed very well...then as a civilian I've owned several colts (off and on over the years) the last being a N.M. H-Bar which I used in 3 gun IPSC tacticle tourneys...all of which did very well and rarely if ever choked...what I'm looking for here is...can I expect the same practicle performance and reliability (out too 200 yards or so) from Bushmasters A2 16in Carbine?

T.I.A. again...Bill.

I bought a Bushmaster plain-jane, iron-sights A2 16" HBAR carbine right after the ban susnset-got it in about the end of October of 2004 with LEO markings.  In my job, I travel to lots of remote locations where hippies and other associated scum are known to frequent, not to mention Mountain Lions, etc.  (I work a district where Charles Manson once housed his "family") I always have the Bushmaster with me, along with a standard GI-Issue pouch of 3 additional mags just in case.  I plink sometimes when I am out in the boondocks, and have never had a problem with it.  I have no doubt I could drop a long-hair, or other associated rif-raff with it at 200 yards if I had to.  I just like having it with me. I also carry a Glock 21 on my belt of course.


PS-I personally think the Bushmaster .308 line is a losing proposition.  They can't possibly be making any return on that line at all.  FAL mags?? No chromed barrel?  and the price??  What were they thinking??  And this carbon line also-what a loser.  Whoever is in charge of marketing at Bushmaster should be hung at high noon.  They should have stayed with what they do best-.223 AR's.  

Bill-
People have tons of experience around here...some more than others, but there is a mass of questions like yours reguarding a specific brand/rifles performance. Typically, people shy away from these questions because they turn into flame wars between people who like Bushmaster and people who dont....almost every time it turns out this way. Bushmaster is an excellent weapon. They are the primary weapon for civilian security personell in Iraq. A Bushmaster weapon will be very close in quality, if not identical or superior, to the M16A2 you used in the core. 200 yards is a modest range for a 16 inch carbine. A 16 inch barrel is an awesome compromise. I used to never like anything other than 20 inch tubes, but I have changed my mind. The velocity difference isnt horribly less with the 16 compared to the 20 and mobility is much greater. Accuracy should be excellent with this Bushmaster you are considering. Reliability will also be excellent. I think you will really enjoy it and have no problems. Bushmaster is a great brand and you will have an excellent rifle. Check out the ammo oracle for more information about the range/velocity of a 16 inch barrel. Semper Fi

Thanks folks...sorry about my persistance but he only has the one left and if I get a good report here?...such as it seems I have?....I may hafta jump all over it  in rapid fashion....like tomorrow...or it'll be gone...just don't wanna jump and wind up buying a pig in a poke.

Keep it coming gents...I'm gonna hafta hear some good stuff before I dive in as the rifle itself is small potatoes compared to what I'll hafta buy along with it...ammo, mags and accessories....only then to find out I bought an expensive meal and limo for what turned out to be an ugly blind date...after the fact...cause lord knows I've done that more than I care to mention.

Thanks again, Bill.

To be honest, the weapon will probably out shoot you.  Even if you are a good shot.  


I've got an A3 version which has worked quite well.

1.  great
2.  great
3. all up to you


fair price but i would rather a a3 for flexibility

The gun can keep it on the plate. Easily. Its all up to you.

For a plinker I would much prefer a 5.56mm ar15 over a AR10. Much more forgiving. Low recoil is very nice.

A good match grade AR15 would definetly shoot around 1 MOA I would think.

My plain jane carbine shoots very well. I can manage 3-4'' groups at 100 yards. With irons.

My scope sucks so I don't even use it. But with a good scope it would shoot 1-1.5'' I think.

Quoted: The gun can keep it on the plate. Easily. Its all up to you. For a plinker I would much prefer a 5.56mm ar15 over a AR10. Much more forgiving. Low recoil is very nice. A good match grade AR15 would definetly shoot around 1 MOA I would think. My plain jane carbine shoots very well. I can manage 3-4'' groups at 100 yards. With irons. My scope sucks so I don't even use it. But with a good scope it would shoot 1-1.5'' I think.

+1
I think your rest (or lack of) is the determining factor with an HBAR, I would holdout for an A3...or use that to cut a better deal on the A2 if that is what you want.

I bought an A3 because I had big plans for a scope setup or a reddot. I used to be absolutely terrible with iron sights. Once I got the hang of the peep sights I was pretty damn accurate.

Now I am itching to get an A2 since I never used my scope or any optics.

I think my next purchase is an A2 20''. I haven't decided yet.

I've got an Bushmaster 16" heavy barrel, post ban, A1. It groups very nicely. 6" groups scoped at 300 yards were common with IMI M855 ammo. I definitely can't do that iron-sighted.  I'm considering selling the barrel assy later on, if you're interested.

Stickman: I know you speak the truth cause even though I am/was a good shot?....I've never held a rifle of any sort that couldn't out-shoot me...I'm human...they are mechanical...however there was this one particular 1911 Colt my USMC Pistol Instructor handed me I know I out-shot...heck...the thing was so worn out that it felt like it had a loose roll of quarters for a slide!!! LOL!!!

billclo: I'm pretty sure you meant to type "6" groups at 300" and NOT...."30 yards"...at least I'm hoping I'm correct in that assumption.

Anyways...thanks for all the help folks as this thread helped me finalize my decision and I just called my FFL Bud 30 minutes ago to tell'im...."Put My Name On It"....$830 + Tax

Evidently he got a killer deal on ordering a lot of (6) BM A2 M4's...and I just secured the last one that wasn't yet spoken for...they'll be here either tomorrow or tuesday.

Thanks again folks and...L8R, Bill.

Quoted: Anyways...thanks for all the help folks as this thread helped me finalize my decision and I just called my FFL Bud 30 minutes ago to tell'im...."Put My Name On It"....$830 + Tax

$830 for an A2 Fixed Cary handle is a not a great deal.  

I'm able to pick them up all day long for $787.95 (A2), and the A3 Removable Carry Handle for $845.95.

Double check, you should be getting a removable carry handle for that price, especially if he got a good deal on them......

Quoted: Quoted: Anyways...thanks for all the help folks as this thread helped me finalize my decision and I just called my FFL Bud 30 minutes ago to tell'im...."Put My Name On It"....$830 + Tax $830 for an A2 Fixed Cary handle is a not a great deal.   I'm able to pick them up all day long for $787.95 (A2), and the A3 Removable Carry Handle for $845.95. Double check, you should be getting a removable carry handle for that price, especially if he got a good deal on them......

Stickman...thanks for looking out for me on the price but...I have no quams about this FFL Bud making $50-$100 off of me...heck...he makes the phone calls, does the paperwork handles the shipping and any bickering with suppliers....to wit....9 months back....the 1st Bushmaster .308 he recieved in for me stayed in the box till I got there and we opened and reviewed it together...the dust cover and mag release were both sticky...but I was excited and took it home figuring it was just new and tight and maybe needed some polishing, smoothing out and breaking in...the following day I got more and more disappointed as both issues were worse than what they first seemed..the dust cover retention pins were waaaay off the mark...even when the retaining pin was full compressed it took two hands and alot of pressure (like almost deforming the dustcover itself) to snap it closed...the mag release was so sticky and gritty it was a biotch to get the mag to snap in and then it took three men and a boy to get it back out...I called my FFL Bud...he told me to bring it right back...he handled the return shipping, paperwork transfer and had a new, properly functioning BM .308 back to me 4 days later...no questions asked...no extra cash involved.

But I understand what your saying...and maybe $830 + Tax isn't a "Killer Price" but...for the faith I have in this guys service I don't think it's a rip-off either....seems pretty fair to me....and if it's of any consequence?...all things in my area (southeast florida) seem priced a tad high...I see AR-180's with $800+ pricetags hanging in local gun shops.

btw...maybe I'm wrong for thinking this way but....where it comes to the rough field handling an M4 Carbine might be expected to endure?....where it may get knocked around a bit?...I actually have more faith in the solidly fordged carry handle/rear sight assy of an A2 than I do the removable carry handle/rear sight assy of the A3 model....am I wrong or alone on this train of thought?

Thanks again, Bill.

Quoted: 1. Hows the reliablity of the Bushmaster A2 16in Carbines been?

Great reliability, second only to Colt.

2. Hows the longevity of the Bushmaster A2 16in Carbines been?

?? Excellent but I think that is an usual question.

3. Assuming I'm a crack shot?...hows the accuracy of Bushmasters A2 16in Carbines been?...in other words...with a proper sighting system can it keep'em all in a paper plate at 200 yards?

Paper plate at 200y?  Not a problem if you know what you're doing, and you're using quality ammo (not crappy stuff like Wolf).  Most of them should be minute of pop can at that range if you can benchrest it.

billclo: I'm pretty sure you meant to type "6" groups at 300" and NOT...."30 yards"...at least I'm hoping I'm correct in that assumption.

oops. yes, it's 300 yards.