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Posted: 8/5/2005 1:35:01 AM EDT
I see in their catalog it says 100% satisfaction guarantee, and was curious if anyone has ever recieved their money back? I have already sent my rifle in twice now, and it is still not up to standard. They attempted to re-align the sights (AKA mess with the FSB) Well now it's acurate and looks good, but in the process, I think they messed up my gas return tube that runs through the FSB. The rifle is short stroking, causing the spent casing to jam with the new round trying to feed into the chamber. There, is nothing wrong with the extractor spring, this is a gas return problem. I am wanting to return this rifle for a full refund so I can go buy another brand. As much as I hate the political stance of this particular company, I think I'm going to have to break down and buy quality.
 Anyone else gone through this process?
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Posted: 8/5/2005 1:39:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Yes, I have. I ordered a replacement barrel and a detachable FS. I changed my mind about the FS and returned it for a hassle-free refund. Probably not exactly what you wanted to read, but they were very agreeable to deal with.
Edit: Your so-called quality company churns out shit too. It is the inevitability of a mass-produced, mass-assembled item, especially at this time from the AWB sunset when orders are thick. Sorry you got a lemon, but for a shooter, my 20" is every bit the rifle as the overpriced horsey, and such is the case with most of Bushmaster's customers. And if you have soured on BM & "their" politics offends you, then consider an Armalite. They are just as high-priced, top quality, AND they have a lifetime warranty. |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 1:49:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Nope, I never needed too. I own two Bushmaster and in over ten years as a salesman at a gunshop, I have never had to send a Bushmaster AR type rifle back for repairs of any kind.
Was this rifle new when you bought it from an FFL or special ordered it? The reason I ask is if you bought it new then the Guarantee will be honored. If you bought it used, Bushmaster will go the extra mile and try to help fix the problem but they are not legally binded by any warranty or guarantee unless the product was new when you bought it. If you bought it used and it was fucked up when you bought it well, that is the risk of buying used guns. |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 2:01:25 AM EDT
[#3]
By no means do I intend to turn this thread into a colt~vs~bushmaster saga, but from my experience with my rifle, and the several other threads I have read here from other BM owners, they are having the same sighting, jamming problems that I have experienced. This rifle was also purchased for duty use, not a safe queen, dink around the range, or SHTF alien invasion. If i'm out in the shit, and my life depends on a rifle, I need to be positive that it's going to function. There is no question with my glock. I should have thought about that I guess when I saved the $211. That was the price difference for Law Enforcement, and I thought I would save a few bucks and go with the Bushie. Now I know why the depatment owns Colt...
ETA-I haven't seen many threads about my colt shoots way right, my colt jams, my colt does this? I know a lot of people here want Colt for the name, but after what I have went through with Bushmaster, I'm done! |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 2:19:09 AM EDT
[#4]
How long have you owned this Bushmaster? I've never seen one malfuction personally.
Did see a Colt go tits up last month though. have you called and asked for your money back? Did you pull the handguards and look at the tube? |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 2:24:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Take a look at RRA entry tactical rifle.I own it and 0 problems.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 2:24:21 AM EDT
[#6]
How often is it short stroking? I've had to send my in twice also. Sights are now good enough for me, but on the last range trip, it short stroked 3 times in 100 rounds for me.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 2:38:44 AM EDT
[#7]
I have only had this gun since I believe late march or early April. Not for sure without pulling out the invoice. Seems like it has been at bushmaster longer than I have had it . heres the rundown... ---Went to sight in fresh out of box, was not on paper at 50 yds. Was shooting high and way right. Sent it in, got it back, they said they re-indexed the sights- I had to pay shipping. ---Got it back, and was still not shooting great, the front taper pin in the FSB was missing, and there was loc-tite all over the FSB, handguard cap, and side sling swivel. Called, bitched and sent it back the second time. They payed shipping. --Now got it back, and it has jammed/short stroked 3-4 times within a matter of 100 rds. After talking with one of the deputies at our department, he told me that sounded exactly like a gas return problem. When they piss with the FSB, the gas tube is fragile I guess, and it probably got kinked when they shifted the FSB, not allowing proper gas return back to the bolt carrier, casuing a short stroke, not allowing the spent casing to eject before the next shell attempts to feed. I just had this conversation with him at work this evening, so I will be calling Bushmaster today. Needless to say, I'm not going to be nice. they have already had 2 opportunities to get the shit right, and they have failed. |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 2:44:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Thje moral is that it is always cheaper to do it right the first time. Not just with firearms. although I think your Bushmaster experience...... is the exception |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:43:02 AM EDT
[#9]
 Seriously though, I can understand your frustration but if you go into this with the attitude that you're "not going to be nice", you're not going to make the process any easier. Be calm but firm in your request for satisifaction. It is possible to let them know you are dissatisified without being a hothead. I know from personal experience that this approach will work better than the one you suggested. Remember, you will be dealing with another human being and if you vent your anger at them, they will probably think you're an a-hole and will be far less likely to go out of their way to resolve the situation. BTW, did you purchase the rifle directly from Bushmaster or through a dealer? |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:45:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Too bad!!!! I have 2 BM's and I'm VERY pleased with them. They are flawless!!!!
Hope you get a refund and find what you're looking for. Good luck!!! 
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:53:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Put one round of ammunition in the magazine, fire the gun, if the bolt carrier locks open on the empty magazine then you have enough gas. Not the problem. If not right them make Bushmaster fix it again. I would ask for an entire new upper at this point.
First thing I would check is the allen head cap screws on carrier gas key, make sure they are tight, if they are loose then gas will leak from the sides of the key rather than go into the gas rings where it needs to be. These allen head cap screws are supposed to be dimpled in place so they can not come loose, I have seen this dimpling step get missed before on Bushmaster bolt carriers. |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:57:43 AM EDT
[#12]
My BM haas dimpling. 
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Posted: 8/5/2005 9:36:42 AM EDT
[#13]
It's not dimpling. It's called staking. Bushy will make you happy whatever they have to do. I have dealt with them and their customer service is unbeatable. As ar as a full refund that is most likely going to depend on where you bought the rifle. If you bought it direct from Bushy I would imagine a refund would be no problem but if you bought it through a dealer you are most likely going to have to go through the dealer for a refund and then the dealer get his money back from Bushy. Something most dealers are not going to be willing to do. I am very surprised you are having so many problems. I have had a couple of Bushies that both ran flawlessly. My buddy has an 11.5" Bushy that had extraction problems but an o-ring cured that. The reason you hear of more Bushy problems than Colt IMO is very simple. Bushy sells far more rifles than Colt or any AR manufacturer for that matter. When selling that many rifles some problems will arise. Out of 1000 they build there is probably one like yours. You do hear of Colt's problems as well. If I were you I would try to get Bushy to replace the whole rifle or at least the upper. I bet they would be happy to do it and that you would get a great running rifle. Everybody builds a lemon once in a while from Bushy to Colt to Mercedes and BMW. That doesn't make them a bad company. Whats seperates the good from the bad companies is their willingness to make it right and I know first hand Bushy will do what it takes to make it right and make you happy.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 9:40:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Let them know you are still unhappy, and that the product is not working in a correct manner for you.
Ask for a new upper, or a refund, and see what they come up with as an answer. |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 11:58:19 AM EDT
[#15]
They replaced a bolt carrier group for me, no hassles at all. I've never had a problem with their customer service.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 12:56:36 PM EDT
[#16]
They gave me a new upper first, and when the new upper had problems, they fixed it quickly.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 1:44:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Incidentally, what variety of ammo are you using? I've seen short stroking with certain brands of ammo (most notably, the Radway Green British stuff).
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:08:52 PM EDT
[#18]
If I were you I would not get rid of the Bushmaster. Granted you have had a couple of problems with it but they are far from major problems that can't be easily fixed. Bushmaster IMHO is a very good company who stands behind their products and will do whatever is neccisary to remidy the problem. For whatever reason you received a somewhat defective AR but Bushmaster will fix it correctly. Colt does make a very good AR but I do not beleive they are that much better than Bushys' if at all. There is a reason why alot of the contractors in Iraq and Afganisthan are choosing to go with Bushmaster ARs. If you decide to keep the BM I am sure it will be repaired/replaced to your satifaction and that you will not be unhappy with it. Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:27:08 PM EDT
[#19]
I didn't get my money back, but before the ban expired I accidently ordered a 20" pre-ban barrel for my build instead of the post ban version, they swapped them no-hassel, just had to pay shipping.
don't worry, I'm getting my barrel threaded tomorrow
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Posted: 8/5/2005 4:51:26 PM EDT
[#20]
This almost seems like bait for ANOTHER Colt Vs Bushy thread....
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Posted: 8/5/2005 5:33:54 PM EDT
[#21]
+1 Of the 30 ARs that I own, 26 are Bushmasters......there is a reason for this. 
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Posted: 8/5/2005 5:42:55 PM EDT
[#22]
I had a problem with one of the Bushmasters that I own. I called the company and ended up talking to a man named Leon Douglass. He is apparently a higher-up in the company. He was very good to talk with and sent me a next-day air tag for my gun. I had my gun back better than new in one week. Try speaking to him honestly and politely on Monday morning and I bet you will have a new perspective on Bushmaster products and their customer service.
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Posted: 8/5/2005 6:38:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Having worked in a gun shop for a few years there is a reason I chose to buy Bushmasters instead of the others.
I took out my latest purchase a couple of weeks ago and put 300 rnds thru it, lots of real bad ammo, without a hitch. Let them do the right thing for you and chances are you are going to get a very good gun. www.restoretherepublic.org |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 7:02:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Holy shizznit!! |
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Posted: 8/5/2005 7:43:54 PM EDT
[#25]
I have dealt with Leon as well as Harvey Macomber and a lady I believe named Cheryl. They were all extremely helpful and would do anything I wanted to make my problem right and make me happy. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 3:49:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Well, i'll answer some questions here.
--No, Leon is not a higher up. If you call bushmaster for an RMA, you will get leon. Trust me, I've spoke with him all 3 times now. He transfered me this time to what he said was the head gunsmith/supervisor named Jim. --I wasn't hot headed, but I think they were aware of my frustrations. --No, I'm not by any means trying to start another colt/bushmaster bash thread. I take this issue very seriously, because my life may depend on this rifle some day. This was purchased for personal/duty use, not to sit in a safe to look pretty. --Ammo was Remington UMC & Winchester WB 40rd value pack-(No Walmart is not back in stock) I still had some left over from when I bought the 5 closest wal-marts out. Mags were bushmaster factory mags. Happened with different 30 rd mags, not the same mag. I keep hearing praise for BM's customer service, but tell me this. Why should a rifle be sent back 3 TIMES??? I can understand having a problem, sending it in and giving them the opportunity to make things right. Now when you get it back and it's still not right, and you send it in for a second time and request a new barrell, but you get it back and still have problems and nothing was replaced, would any one of you not be out right pissed? 3 times sending a rifle in isn't top notch customer service to me. This time I have requested a new complete upper assembly, so I will see what happens. The gunsmith Jim guy told me that he didn't agree with the process that they use with realigning the FSB like they do, and said that he is going to get that changed. now I don't know if he was being truthful or just feeding me what I wanted to hear, but it's pretty bad when the people doing repairs don't agree with attempting these type of repairs that they do, because they know the problems with these type of repairs. I'll just have to see what happens this time I guess... |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 6:19:44 AM EDT
[#27]
Chesh97,
I have been reading all of the replies in this thread including your responses, and I believe you havea very viable concern. Additionally, the replies you received are from guys who are trying to offer some positive and realistic insight. Personally, I do not own a BM, I am a DPMS man. However, in the face of your dilema, I would probably be as upset and frustrated as you. BM does make a quality firearm, as others have attested, and I am sure that they are willing to make the situation right. It is unfortunate that you have suffered as much as you have with this predicament. I would try to speak to someone in management about the difficulty you have had trying to get the situation remedied. I have found through the years that going to the management level can usually solve the problem. I would think that as reputable as BM is, they would make things right once and for all without any cost to you. This is what I would expect. If this has left a bad taste in your mouth for BM, I would suggest loooking at RRA, DPMS, and as a last resort, even Colt. Yes, I said Colt. Good luck. I hope that everything turns out for the best.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 8:02:33 AM EDT
[#28]
I've only had one small problem with Bushmaster.
Years ago, I ordered a Bolt/Carrier and they shipped it to my old address. The new occupant accepted the UPS delivery and refused to open the door when I knocked. I called Bushmaster back and they shipped out a new one promptly and apologized for there error. Well Done. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 8:12:07 AM EDT
[#29]
I had a bolt fail on me (all of the lugs stripped off).
I called Bushmaster, sent in the upper and had it all fixed in about 2 weeks. The only thing they asked is what type of ammo I was using, haven't had a problem with it since. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 8:50:51 AM EDT
[#30]
I got my money back from Bushmaster.
After calling the head of customer service and waiting 3 weeks. I attempted to order a 14.5" M4 barrel from them and sent them a money order. After 3 months, being lied to 4 times, and numerous "it will ship tomorrow." responses, I still didn't have a barrel. So, I complained, got my cash back, and bought from someone else. Lesson learned. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 2:25:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Chesh- Did you buy it direct form BM, or from a dealer? If dealer, is it safe to assume it was a "New" rifle, factory built, and not a parts kit on a BM lower?
Oh, and have you let anyone else shoot it? Did they have same problems as you? |
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Posted: 8/7/2005 7:42:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Chesh97...Next time you talk to BM ask them what tipe of ammo they are using to test your gun after they fix it. There's got to be more to it than what we are thinking. Do you think the problem might lie elsewhere? Are you sending just the upper, barrel, or the whole rifle??
Please let us know how it goes. Good luck!!!! |
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Posted: 8/7/2005 8:52:28 AM EDT
[#33]
if i were using it as a duty rifle, it would always be in the back of my head, that it malfunctioned 3 times and had to keep being sent back....i couldn't rest assured knowing it would perform flawlessly, even thought it might.
either ask for a new everything, or just get your money and rest easy. i can see what you mean, if you send it in to be fixed once, thats ok...but then the part they put on is bad too? (some guy and his upper)...yeah, thats great customer service, but shouldn't they be positive the NEW part they're sending back, is 110 % ? if i ran a business and someone was unhappy, or got a lemon, i wouldn't want to have to have them send it back once or even twice more. maybe put your own rifle together? or would the dept. not allow that? |
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Posted: 8/7/2005 8:55:51 AM EDT
[#34]
I would lookin more into the ammo you are using. "valu packs" are never really a good value. I would get a good amount of M193 and try it again.
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Posted: 8/7/2005 9:02:57 AM EDT
[#35]
I dont think its the ammo. It shold shoot that stuff and if it did not I would not want it.
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Posted: 8/7/2005 10:32:06 AM EDT
[#36]
OK, I must be dense, because I couldn't find mention about the details of this particular rifle. We are trying to help you work through this issue, but without a baseline, its really hard. Here is a list of questions that need to be answered in order to more fully understand the problem.
1.)When did you purchase the rifle? 2.)Did you purchase the rifle New In Box, as a new complete rifle, from a reputable dealer? (Or is it a "Like New In Box" used or a parts gun?) 3.)Other than the UMC or the Wallyworld white box (neither of which are close to M193 specs), have you tried M193 spec ammo (Federal XM193 or Winchester Q3131a)? How many rounds have been fired through the gun? 4.)Have you cleaned and lubed it, paying attention to lube (with CLP) the guide rails on the bolt carrier, staggering the gas rings on the bolt, and putting a drop of CLP into the two gas discharge holes on the side of the carrier? 5.)When you say "jam", what type of "jam" are you refering to? Failures to Eject? Failure to Extract? Failure to Feed? Doublefeed? Pics would help here. 6.)Did you try David_Hineline's test to ascertain if you have enough gas to cycle the gun? (Put one round of ammunition in the magazine, fire the gun, if the bolt carrier locks open on the empty magazine then you have enough gas) 7.)I understand you tested the gun with several mags, but do you have a "Known-good" mag to test (a mag that is known to be in 100% working condition through testing in other rifles) 8.)Have you spoken with Jarrod McDevitt, who's the Bushmaster rep on this site, either by IM, email or phone? 9.)Is there anyway you can get together with one of your Hometown Forum ARFCOMers to evaluate the problem, try known good mags with M193 spec ammo? As I have said before, knowing these factors will help those responding to the thread figure out the problem. Most people here are just trying to help make your rifle into a 100% functioning one, not defending manufacturer X or manufacturer Y. |
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Posted: 8/8/2005 5:36:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate everyones comments. To answer some more questions and statements, the rifle was purchased new, from a large reputable law enforcement dealer back in April. The comment on ammo I didn't agree with however. These are AR's. They are a military weapon. I should be able to shoot Wolf with no Problem, I should not have to have a rifle that can only shoot one type of ammo. Before sending the gun in the first two times, I had no problems at all other than accuracy. The FSB was out of alignment. Now I don't know the knowledge level of all guys on here so I guess I will try to explain the process that BM uses when "re-aligning" the FSB. When they attempt to shift the FSB, they must break it loose by taking out the taper pins then re-tapping the barrel, shifting the FSB, and then re-drilling the barrell and put new taper pins back in. The FSB does not only function as a sight, but it is also an important part of the gas operation. When they tweak the FSB, the gas flow can be restricted, resulting in not getting the proper amount of gas returned to thge bolt carrier causing a short stroke. That's what has happened here. I never had any problems with any ammo until I got this gun back the second time when the FSB was re-aligned. I have the upper packed up, and will be shipping it out to BM today. I think they are truly concerned an apologetic, because this time, my shipping label is next day air, not ground. That atleast pleases me. I have requested a complete new upper assembly, so I will have to see what happens. I will keep everyone posted on what's going on. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 8:24:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Another good reason to assemble one yourself
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Posted: 8/9/2005 8:38:40 AM EDT
[#39]
I returned some of their BMAS rear sights, because they were crap, and got a full refund.
All of the other stuff I have got from them has been perfect. I really like their barrels. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:29:34 PM EDT
[#40]
I've had to return Bushmasters back to the factory on more than one occasion. I frankly have no faith or interest in their product anymore. I'm not a "kool aid drinker" but all my guns now are Colt, athough I wouldn't be afraid to give Rock River a try. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 11:41:42 PM EDT
[#41]
+1 |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 6:35:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Here's the update for everyone that actually gave a crap. After sending the rifle back to Bushmaster for the fourth time, they have finally given credit back to the dealer from where I bought the weapon. The dealer has now refunded my purchase price back to my credit card. Man what a hassle. I know everyone if filled up with the Colt/BM bullcrap, but I tell you this. Bushmaster has everyone fooled!! There customer service is shit. They will be nice on the phone, and tell you what you want to hear, but trust me, they will not fix your weapon correctly, and they will give you a runaround. I could honestly care less about what was stamped on the side of my AR. I just wanted one that worked. After having the bushmaster that did not, and then the runaround time and time again with Bushmaster, I won't ever be dealing with them again. If you have had good luck with them, congratulations, but I still have a very sour taste in my mouth.
Looks like I will be joining the cult shortly, I hope 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 6:42:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Have fun with the Cult oversized receiver pins, plastic hinge on the buttstock and the un-chromed chamber and barrels. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:07:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Jeez, I looked at mine and whatcha know, chrome bores and chambers, std size receiver pins, carbine stock so no hinge. OOOOOOH ALL of mine are that way, whatdaya know, who'd a thunk it? Even have the evil m-16 carriers in them.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:31:59 PM EDT
[#45]
This argument will never be resolved..Lets try and give it a rest.. ARs are ARs as long as they are forged and spec...
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:56:33 PM EDT
[#46]
never mind
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Posted: 9/29/2005 4:53:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Hi all,
I just had this loose carrier key thing happen to me today, and I am upset about it. I am in law enforcement, and I frequently use my Bushy HB 14.5" as my duty entry gun. This gun is still farily new, and only has about 250 +/- practice and qualification rounds fired through it. Yesterday, I almost elected to use it in a high risk narcotics search warrant. At the last moment, I ended up using the department's Benelli M-1 14", for several tactical reasons. Well, good for me, I didn't have to shoot anyone, however, one of my partners did shoot a dog that tried to attack him in the rear yard. Anyway, on to today, to our regular range qualification day. I shoot my Bushy and after about 20 rounds, it starts jamming every round. A failure to fully eject. So I drop out of the line, pull it apart, and there it is, the carrier key is loose as can be. The hex nuts were both just finger tight. So I examine the stakings and see that they are very lightly staked, compared to my past Colts, and my Armalite. Well, I tightend them up and was able to finish the qualification. But it really made me think about it. What if I had needed that gun yesterday, and got into an extended shooting. I still like the Bushmaster brand, and this rifle in particular, but like has been frequently said here, you really need to know your equipment, and check your gear out carefully. I plan on fixing this myself, since it is a pretty simple repair. But I do recommend you all check those stakings.... Take care, JJ |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Idk about their customer service, but return it and get a Colt, so you won't have to hassle with crappy quality control and sights that don't line up.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 5:26:19 PM EDT
[#49]
These guns do require a bit of mechanical knowledge to keep running tip top...things like carrier keys coming loose are normal break in items that need to be checked often till the rifle is broke in...
In regard to the short stroking, the first thing to check is the carrier key, and then check the rings, to make sure they arent all lined up...chances are this is the problem.... |
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Posted: 9/30/2005 10:56:05 PM EDT
[#50]
I'm also on my 2nd return to busy with a carbon gun - I am hoping for the best - who is this rep Jarrod McDevitt that we're talking about - any way to find him - I don't want to have a 3rd or 4th return here. . .
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