pinned vs nonpinned muzzle brake

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - pinned vs nonpinned muzzle brake

Posted: 5/23/2005 3:16:14 PM EDT

does this sound like it would fly according to atf rules for nj. a company said that they will thread my barrel with a non standard thread pattern and put thier muzzle brake on. i said i need it pinned in nj. they said that its a non standard thread so no other brakes except thiers will fit so there is no need to pin it. anyone else think this is riskey.

Posted: 5/23/2005 3:19:42 PM EDT

[#1]

Why would the ATF be expected to be knowledgable of let alone enforce NJ state regulations?

Posted: 5/23/2005 3:37:52 PM EDT

[#2]

JP was pitching their nonstandard thread pitches an ban legal during the dark days. You may want to inquire with them on how they handled the legalities of it. They might help.

A quote from JP's website about compensators and threading:

.750 or smaller barrel, 9x16 post ban legal

Better check you state specific requirements, though, as they can supersede or be more stringent than the national laws.

Posted: 5/23/2005 3:39:10 PM EDT

[#3]

PINNED works fine for me..

Posted: 5/23/2005 3:49:41 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
PINNED works fine for me..

Yep and you're in Texas where no state assault weapons ban exists. This guy's in NJ and has state laws he must abide by.

Posted: 5/23/2005 4:29:32 PM EDT

[#5]

yep and its a no threaded barrel state.

Posted: 6/6/2005 12:25:43 PM EDT

[#6]

I live in NY and have a preban Olympic Arms SGW lower, I had my 16" post ban barrel cut and threaded to 14.5" and had a Phantom FH pinned on and than welded over the pin, I believe this is the corect way.

Posted: 6/21/2005 6:58:54 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I live in NY and have a preban Olympic Arms SGW lower, I had my 16" post ban barrel cut and threaded to 14.5" and had a Phantom FH pinned on and than welded over the pin, I believe this is the corect way.

I am also in NY and agree with the above, that pinning with a weld over the pin is the way to stay safe with a post ban gun situation in our continued restrictive state. What I don't understand is why you did that on your pre-ban. You could have simply threaded the Phantom on. It's a pre-ban gun. If the FH is legal, so are the threads. You can configure that Olympic any way you like.

Posted: 6/22/2005 3:45:06 AM EDT

[#8]

The 14.5" barrel falls under NFA rules, so it has to go on an SBR lower, a registered M16, or be fitted with a permanently attached muzzle device that results in an overall length of 16" or more. Hence, the pinned and welded solution...

Posted: 6/22/2005 3:58:18 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
does this sound like it would fly according to atf rules for nj. a company said that they will thread my barrel with a non standard thread pattern and put thier muzzle brake on. i said i need it pinned in nj. they said that its a non standard thread so no other brakes except thiers will fit so there is no need to pin it. anyone else think this is riskey.

Where in the state statutes, or administrative code, does it say the brake needs to be pinned? The pinning requirement was from the ATF and only pertained to federal regulations.

Mike

Posted: 6/22/2005 7:57:10 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
The 14.5" barrel falls under NFA rules, so it has to go on an SBR lower, a registered M16, or be fitted with a permanently attached muzzle device that results in an overall length of 16" or more. Hence, the pinned and welded solution...

YES! Brain freeze! I missed the 14.5" statement. Was thinking 16" Pre-ban.

Posted: 6/22/2005 8:03:31 AM EDT

[#11]

Where in the state statutes, or administrative code, does it say the brake needs to be pinned? The pinning requirement was from the ATF and only pertained to federal regulations.

Mike

If NJ is similar to NY, It needs to be pinned and welded to effectively negate the fact that it had threads. It's gray but it seems to work.

Posted: 6/22/2005 8:24:37 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Where in the state statutes, or administrative code, does it say the brake needs to be pinned? The pinning requirement was from the ATF and only pertained to federal regulations.

Mike

If NJ is similar to NY, It needs to be pinned and welded to effectively negate the fact that it had threads. It's gray but it seems to work.

My issue is that the NJ statutes and Administrative Code are silent on this specific issue. Additionally, the NJSP and Attorney General's office have not taken a position in writing on this. Nowhere does any NJ government agency say that it needs to be pinned and welded. If they want it done that way they should say so.

Mike

Posted: 6/23/2005 4:35:33 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
My issue is that the NJ statutes and Administrative Code are silent on this specific issue. Additionally, the NJSP and Attorney General's office have not taken a position in writing on this. Nowhere does any NJ government agency say that it needs to be pinned and welded. If they want it done that way they should say so.

Mike

Again, I'm not sure about Jersey, but NY's is worded as follows;

18 22. "ASSAULT WEAPON" MEANS (A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABIL-
19 ITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST TWO OF THE FOLLOW-
20 ING CHARACTERISTICS:
21 (I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
22 (II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF
23 THE WEAPON;
24 (III) A BAYONET MOUNT;
25 (IV) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR OR THREADED BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A
26 FLASH SUPPRESSOR;
27 (V) A GRENADE LAUNCHER; OR

Pinning is reversible, and the threads underneath are still "designed" to accomodate a flash suppressor, but if a muzzle break is threaded on then pinned followed by welding, it is no longer reversible nor is it "designed" to accomodate..... The threads become a non-issue.

Posted: 7/1/2005 5:00:35 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
My issue is that the NJ statutes and Administrative Code are silent on this specific issue. Additionally, the NJSP and Attorney General's office have not taken a position in writing on this. Nowhere does any NJ government agency say that it needs to be pinned and welded. If they want it done that way they should say so.

Mike

Again, I'm not sure about Jersey, but NY's is worded as follows;

18 22. "ASSAULT WEAPON" MEANS (A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABIL-
19 ITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST TWO OF THE FOLLOW-
20 ING CHARACTERISTICS:
21 (I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
22 (II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF
23 THE WEAPON;
24 (III) A BAYONET MOUNT;
25 (IV) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR OR THREADED BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A
26 FLASH SUPPRESSOR;
27 (V) A GRENADE LAUNCHER; OR

Pinning is reversible, and the threads underneath are still "designed" to accomodate a flash suppressor, but if a muzzle break is threaded on then pinned followed by welding, it is no longer reversible nor is it "designed" to accomodate..... The threads become a non-issue.

~~I stand corrected~~. It still sucks though.

Thanks,

Mike

See Below

Posted: 7/6/2005 3:55:59 PM EDT

[#15]

Shotgun1,

I looked up the NJ definitions (NJSA 2C:39-1 w) of Assault Firearms and there is nothing stated about threaded barrels, welding, pinning ect. I'll go back to my opinion that, absent some determination from the NJSP or AGs office, a non-flash hider muzzel device is OK with being screwed on.

That my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Mike

Posted: 7/8/2005 1:08:23 PM EDT

[#16]

Mike,

AGREED! I compared NJ's wording to NY's the other day, and found it to be VERY different. With the disclaimer that I'm still not as up on Jersey as I am on NY, I didn't find anything on threads in the stuff I read.

-Glen

Posted: 8/4/2005 11:54:01 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Shotgun1,

I looked up the NJ definitions (NJSA 2C:39-1 w) of Assault Firearms and there is nothing stated about threaded barrels, welding, pinning ect. I'll go back to my opinion that, absent some determination from the NJSP or AGs office, a non-flash hider muzzel device is OK with being screwed on.

That my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Mike

MAP

I hate to burst your bubble but I found this

www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

1. a folding or telescoping stock;
2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
3. a bayonet mount;
4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
5. a grenade launcher;

Although it appears a threaded barrel and flash suppressor would be okay on a M1A do the lack of pistol grip. Go figure more stupid NJ gun laws.

Joe

Posted: 8/5/2005 4:16:52 AM EDT

[#18]

Although it appears a threaded barrel and flash suppressor would be okay on a M1A do the lack of pistol grip. Go figure more stupid NJ gun laws.

Joe

If you go by that (which I don't if its not in the statute

) no muzzle attachments are allowed even if pinned and welded.

Mike

Posted: 8/6/2005 10:50:08 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

If you go by that (which I don't if its not in the statute) no muzzle attachments are allowed even if pinned and welded.

Mike

Now hold on..... a muzzle break is not a flash suppressor, and if it's pressed on or pressed and pinned it would be 100% OK. If it's threaded, pinned and welded it is no longer "designed" to accomadate anything and has been found to be legal under the bans still in effect in some states.

Posted: 8/6/2005 11:34:01 AM EDT

[#20]

I am faced with the same thing in CT. (With nearly IDENTICAL language in the statutes to NY. Do these guys all go to the same country club or something?)

Anyway, I read elsewhere that high-temp (+1100 deg) silver solder is suffecient to permenatly mount a brake.

Any input?

Posted: 8/6/2005 5:26:46 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I am faced with the same thing in CT. (With nearly IDENTICAL language in the statutes to NY. Do these guys all go to the same country club or something?)

Anyway, I read elsewhere that high-temp (+1100 deg) silver solder is suffecient to permenatly mount a brake.

Any input?

When this was a Federal issue as opposed to an individual State ban, it depended on which ATF agent you got on the phone as to what was suffecient. Some would say solder was OK, but just about all would approve pinning followed by welding.

Posted: 8/7/2005 5:37:47 AM EDT

[#22]

(a) any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle

(b) any rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle

(c) any firearm altered from a rifle or a shotgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches

Any shorter than this,

....

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - pinned vs nonpinned muzzle brake

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