I'm putting together my dream AR and I'm looking for some ideas and input on how to finish it out.

It'll be used for home defense, carbine classes, and a LE patrol rifle.  Mostly CQB and won't be needed for anything past 100 yards.

Ok, some must haves;

16" threaded barrel
collapsible stock
flat top upper
free float rails
some type of optic
buis
a dedicated weaponlight
no lasers

Let's say you've got a $2500 gift certificate and it all has to be used right here in the EE.  Don't worry about ammo.  It has to be spent on the rifle, accessories, a few mags and maybe a case.

So how would it end up if you were picking everything?

If you are a LEO, you need to let us know what your department allows before we can make any intelligent guesses.  

What make of weapons are allowed, and what limits on aftermarket accessories?


Here is my duty weapon based off my needs as a citycop.

Did it already:

Differences from what you mention:  I have found no useful purpose for any rails
other than the bottom rail for VFG, so I  did not use any rail system.

BUIS are not installed in this photo, I'm still tinkering with different models to see
what works best.  Will likely move to a QD mount for the optic.

a NIB LE6920, a NIB Beta CMag, and a NIB Acog will set you back $2500,  I need to get an ACOG to complete my $2500 carbine

TexasSIG


Your department allows that weapon?

I'd start talking to MSTN...

Quoted: TexasSIG Your department allows that weapon?

Why wouldn't any?  Not sure I see the problem. Did I miss something?
Don't see the need for an M4 profile barrel to connect a grenade launcher to
so the weight savings of the barrel is nice.
And no, it's not allowed at the moment because there are no iron sights.  I'm
still working out the bugs with BUIS and the CQT.

Other than that, what do you see wrong?

How do you secure it?  With no BUIS, it certainly shouldn't be allowed (you already commented on that).  Interesting choice in optics.

Are you a full time LEO?

let's have some brands/details too, please

Quoted: let's have some brands/details too, please

Did you bother to read what I asked?  

If you are a cop, there are usually restrictions on what you can carry.  Do you know your department regs regarding this area?  

Quoted: How do you secure it?  With no BUIS, it certainly shouldn't be allowed (you already commented on that).  Interesting choice in optics. Are you a full time LEO?

No, reserve with SD in a mostly rural county.  

Yeah, with no iron sights it's worthless at the moment.

CQT, yeah, an interesting choice.  In my case I'm more likely to run into some distance being out
in the country 90% of the time so I wanted some magnification.   The problem as you can
see is finding BUIS.  You can't co-witness with the CQT because even all the way out it's
zoomed to 1.1x so you can't see the front sight.  I'm toying with a QD mount and just yank
the CQT if I need, but I just don't know right now.  It very well may go onto something else
and this guy gets the Eotech again.

Not many restrictions for me as far as brands really.  My father in law is using pretty much the
same setup in Colorado in his job.  We built them at the same time.  He is also in a very
rural area but he dumped the CQT.

It's such a nice optic but very much a compromise and I have not decided if I can live with that yet.

Stock 16" Flattop      ~ $850
Sling                       ~ $30
Twenty USGI mags    ~ $230
Good Training           ~ $1,390

After the amount of proper training $1,390 will get you....you will then know what more you need or don't need.


ETA: This may or may not have been what you wanted to hear.  You could also subtract money from the training for a good weaponlight if it's gonna be a social carbine.

Quoted: Quoted: let's have some brands/details too, please Did you bother to read what I asked?   If you are a cop, there are usually restrictions on what you can carry.  Do you know your department regs regarding this area?

I'm really wanting to know how you guys would build your carbines.

Quoted: I'm putting together my dream AR and I'm looking for some ideas and input on how to finish it out. It'll be used for home defense, carbine classes, and a LE patrol rifle.

Ok, after reading your initial post, I thought you were looking for ideas based off the above given info.  

ETA: This may or may not have been what you wanted to hear.  You could also subtract money from the training for a good weaponlight if it's gonna be a social carbine.

Personally I think a quality weapon light is not on the "optional" list.  I'd make that a hard requirement
before optics or any fancy gadgets.
But, that's just my opinion.

Quoted: Ok, after reading your initial post, I thought you were looking for ideas based off the above given info.

There are really the only criteria I'm a stickler about;

16" threaded barrel
collapsible stock
flat top upper
free float rails
some type of optic
buis
a dedicated weaponlight
no lasers

If you need 2500 to build a carbean, you first need your head checked.

LMT MRP upper.
Either Tango Down MagPul or Vltor stock (TD is heavier but nicer and should balance better)
Troy Buis
EOTech 552 with LaRue Mount.
SureFire Scout Light with LED 60 Lumen head.
Tango Down battle grip.
Bushmaster or LMT lower.

Quoted: ETA: This may or may not have been what you wanted to hear.  You could also subtract money from the training for a good weaponlight if it's gonna be a social carbine. Personally I think a quality weapon light is not on the "optional" list.  I'd make that a hard requirement before optics or any fancy gadgets. But, that's just my opinion.

If the gun is gonna be for range use only, then I feel a light is not needed.  

We seem to agree, but I think you just didn't get my point.

Quoted: If you need 2500 to build a carbean, you first need your head checked.

I built the above pictured one for just a tad over 1k.  


$2500 is almost like saying price is no object.

I guess I would get an LMT upper, and one of the FF rails (larue, DD, samson etc).

The lower might as well be LMT, though it really isn't an issue for me.

The optic would be an Eotech 552 as pictured above.

The BUIS would be a ARMS 40L, as pictured above.

The light would be one of the newer pentagonlights.


For me, I would throw on a VFG, and put the rest into mags, ammo, and if I wasn't already a fulltime officer/ firearm instructor who gets a good amount of training and classes, I would go to a carbine class.

I also figure that most people are prior military and start with a solid knowledge of the M16 family.  If not, a carbine class should be mandatory before bad habits start.

Quoted: Quoted: ETA: This may or may not have been what you wanted to hear.  You could also subtract money from the training for a good weaponlight if it's gonna be a social carbine. Personally I think a quality weapon light is not on the "optional" list.  I'd make that a hard requirement before optics or any fancy gadgets. But, that's just my opinion. If the gun is gonna be for range use only, then I feel a light is not needed.   We seem to agree, but I think you just didn't get my point.

Yeah, sorry.  I was taking the original posters talk about using this as a patrol weapon into account.

For range or play use, certainly leave the light off.  

Quoted: I also figure that most people are prior military and start with a solid knowledge of the M16 family.  If not, a carbine class should be mandatory before bad habits start.

That should be the final answer on this.  I am not prior military, and the carbine classes I've taken make more difference than the gadgets hanging onto the weapon.

Including training gets a big +1

I think proper training is the key.

I mean anyone with $2500 to blow can build a really nice carbine, but the question is can they properly employ it and benefit from all the extra features.  

Specifically, does your department provide good training for a patrol carbine??  I know my local PDs are pretty clueless.

Quoted: I think proper training is the key. Specifically, does your department provide good training for a patrol carbine??  I know my local PDs are pretty clueless.

What makes you say that?  Its not that I doubt you, but I'm curious as to what you've seen first hand.  I'm always interested in training issues, feel free to IM or email me if you want to keep the board uncluttered.

Thanks.

Let's just say that I'm from a relatively small town.  With that being said I personally know some of the local PD and Deputies and I went to high school with alot of them.  They are all generally nice guys, but their funding is low and I don't think our crime rates would constitute any funding for carbines and training for the officers in the near future.

It's sad but true, and not necessarily their fault.  I wasn't trying to bad mouth my local PD, but it is unlikely they'll get any patrol rifles and training in the near future.  In fact, I think some of them need more training with their pistols and 870s, having personally observed some of their shooting skills.

Another big fact is that most of them simply don't care.  They took the job because it's a job that's relatively easy to get with minimal education requirements.  Sadly, some guys are in it for the money alone and could care less how proficient they are with a firearm.  If you think about it, that's a scary thought.

emhtx,


         I'm a Detective / SWAT Officer, so I'll chime in and try to help you out.  There is a lot of great information on this thread titled "The Perfect Tactical Carbine Setup"

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=226012

   
          The info in that thread is thought provoking and may save you some money.  I would suggest taking some training classes first, they will quickly show you what you need and want on your carbine.  Mindset, tactics, and shooting skills are FAR MORE IMPORTANT than equipment.  I used a standard 16" M4 carbine with iron sights and a Surefire light on it for a couple years for doing entries and other SWAT related missions.

            On a LEO gun (after having a very reliable gun / mags) the most important things on the gun are the SIGHTS and a LIGHT.  We must be able to identify the target and place the shots where we want them.  Because we are responsible for every round that we send down range.  I have seen a couple cops that have thrown cheap optics on their guns, throw the gun in the trunk, take it out to qualify and they can't even hit the target.  They would have been better off sticking with iron sights, but you know how it is....cops feel the need to be cool  If you go with and optic I would stick with an Aimpoint or EO Tech and a very reliable mount.


           Remeber you mission dictates the gear that you use, not the other way around.  

           I'm currenly running a Colt LE6920 as a primary and a Bushmaster M4 as a back up.  Both are set up exactly the same.  My guns see more use on entries than they do being used as a Patrol Rifle, and are set up accordingly.....but this same set up would work fine on a Patrol Rifle as well:

Colt LE 6920


Bushmaster



            A few things to consider on a Patrol Rifle....The most important thing to remember is that as a cop your carbine will live it's life in the trunk of your patrol car....and if you drive like the rest of us, then your carbine is going to get bounced around quite often.  Ensure that the all the parts, optics (if you decide to go in that direction), accessories, etc. will stand up to the riggors of riding in the trunk of a police car for 8+ hours a day 365 days a year.  Make sure you get a quality hard case for you carbine (ie. Pelican or Starlight) and make sure to put the Silica-Gel Desiccant packs in your hard case.

             Remeber how hot that trunk get's in the summer and how cold it gets in the winter.  Thus a lot of our Patrol Officers use just iron sights.  That being said there is nothing wrong with optics, just some food for thought.

            How will you be depolying the rifle?  As a patrol rifle?  Will you be doing entries / warrants with it?  Do you work in a city or a rural enviorment?  If in a city is it spread out or condenced?  Some more info and hopefully we can point you in the right direction.



Take care and stay safe,




             

100% agree with USMC03


All the gadgets in the world won't make you a better shooter.

All the gadgets in the world won't give you the mindset to pull the trigger when it needs to be pulled.

LMT 16" upper
LaRue 7.0 LMT Lower
Magpul Rail Covers
Magpul M93B
Magpul MIAD
Colt M16 BCG
Troy BUIS
KAC trigger
Aimpount M3
LaRue Cantilever Mount
Phantom
PRI big latch
Your choice of VFG and Surefire or better yet a Gladius when its released

This will run right at $2500 and you can sell the original LMT stock if it runs a few bucks over.  If it does not buy a sling with the extra money. This is very close to my personal rig. For mags I would go D&H Black Teflon with +25% springs Magpul followers and old school Magpuls turned sideways.  

I still think you are putting the cart before the horse.

emhtx,




           I noticed that you only have a few posts, so I wanted to bring something to your attention, before you find out the hard way.

            There has been some really good info passed along on this thread, and some not so good info.  A few guys that are in the same profession as you have chimed in, and there are a couple that are not in the same profession that have passed along good info.

            Sometimes it's hard to tell what is good info and what is not.  There have been guys on this thread that have suggested certain accessories, some of these accessories are not even on the market yet.  How someone can tell you that a piece of gear is good to go when they haven't even had it in their hands, let alone field tested it is beyond me.  Beware of the misinformation and the bad information, because there is plenty of it on this site.  I understand that people want to contribute, but when a person isn't speaking from experience it usually does more harm than good.  

             An example of this is a guy asked what the best .45acp defensive ammo was.  A few guys said that the Federal Hydra Shok was good ammo, and then a couple others said it was old technology and wasn't worth a crap....I chimed in and added that the Hydra Shok had a proven track record with numerous agencies, and I had personally seen the results of 15+ Officer involved shootings (most of them from my agency) using the 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp used to good effect, the round perfomed as advertised everytime.  

             Every response that disputed my statement was about how the round performed in ballistic gelitan.  I was the only person that spoke up that had any FIRST HAND experience with the round, but numerous people told me that I didn't know what I was talking about because the round was out dated, yadda, yadda, yadda.....Who would you want to listen to in this situation?  The guy who has first hand experience or the guys that are reading data off the internet from a lab?

              Like the discussion with the .45 Hydra Shok, there are a lot of guys that will tell you something is good or bad because of what they have read on the internet, or because an item seems to be all the "new flavor of the week".....And most of the time these individuals have no first hand experience, or have never used the product in a high stress enviornment.

             Here is another example and may hit a little closer to home....From www.ar15.com member "CJan_NH":

IKold,

Just to add something to think about concerning what has been said here about gear.

Prior to my very first carbine I did the exact same thing you did-I asked the community how I should configure my carbine for the class. I got tons of responses, but at the time I didn't really know how to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. I outfitted my carbine based on the consensus of what I had been told. The last thing I wanted to do was to show up to class with inferior, not enough, or inappropriate gear.

To make a long story short I ended up with a $3000 carbine that was completely overbuilt and totally inappropriate for the course being taught. By the end of that first class most of the stuff had been stripped off my gun, and I finished the course with a flashlight, backup irons, and a stock trigger. At least my base carbine was reliable, and I had taken care to bring good ammo and reliable magazines.

Don't make the same mistakes I did for my first class. Earlier in the thread when I talked about my reality being shattered, this is what happened.


             That being said there are a lot of guys here that are shooters and they shoot often and know their stuff and will point you in the right direction.....It's just hard when you are new trying to figure out who is known for posting good info and who falls into that second catagory (the guys who will recommend gear that they have never used, send you down the wrong path, etc).


Good luck


Take care and stay safe

jeebus Stickman, that's an evil looking rig.

I'd think the bad guys would just faint dead out when they saw that rig coming.

What kind of stock is that?  I love it.

Quoted: Quoted: How do you secure it?  With no BUIS, it certainly shouldn't be allowed (you already commented on that).  Interesting choice in optics. Are you a full time LEO? No, reserve with SD in a mostly rural county.   Yeah, with no iron sights it's worthless at the moment. CQT, yeah, an interesting choice.  In my case I'm more likely to run into some distance being out in the country 90% of the time so I wanted some magnification.   The problem as you can see is finding BUIS.  You can't co-witness with the CQT because even all the way out it's zoomed to 1.1x so you can't see the front sight.  I'm toying with a QD mount and just yank the CQT if I need, but I just don't know right now.  It very well may go onto something else and this guy gets the Eotech again. Not many restrictions for me as far as brands really.  My father in law is using pretty much the same setup in Colorado in his job.  We built them at the same time.  He is also in a very rural area but he dumped the CQT. It's such a nice optic but very much a compromise and I have not decided if I can live with that yet.

TexasSig,

           Even with the CQT as far forward as it will go, you still won't be able to deploy a back up iron sight as the CQT is too long.  An option that you may want to consider if you want to keep the CQT is getting a LaRue quick detach CQT throw lever mount, this way you could get the CQT off the gun if it ever went tit's up and you needed to deploy your BUIS.

            Quick question.....I ran a Surefire M500 for a couple years.  How do you activate the light with the vertical foregrip and how do you work things if you ever need momentary light (turning the light on in short bursts)?

Quoted: TexasSig,            Even with the CQT as far forward as it will go, you still won't be able to deploy a back up iron sight as the CQT is too long.  An option that you may want to consider if you want to keep the CQT is getting a LaRue quick detach CQT throw lever mount, this way you could get the CQT off the gun if it ever went tit's up and you needed to deploy your BUIS.             Quick question.....I ran a Surefire M500 for a couple years.  How do you activate the light with the vertical foregrip and how do you work things if you ever need momentary light (turning the light on in short bursts)?

Well, that's why this rifle is still in the "play with" stage.  You are probably right about the CQT. It's a fine optic  bbut very large.  I looked at a couple of folding BUIS kits to see if something would fit, no luck yet.  A QD release is absolutely on the list of things to work on.

As for the 500A, the rocker on/off and LED pressure pads are easily reachable with the VFG installed.
I do like the VFG's advantages, but I didn't want one with the light controls in it (900A) because if
I need to remove the VFG I lose the light.  You'll notice that I have the VFG way out in front.  I can still use the handguard in the traditional manner if I need to and tap the momentary white light.  That pressure pad as you know runs pretty much the length of the handguard, so it's reachable.

I believe that with repetetive training it would be workable, but your points are all very valid and I appreciate the input.  When I am working, the CQT and VFG are gone, and the carry handle with good old iron sights are installed.  I'm just in the tinkering stage to see how all this works together.

I've been in a couple of situations where I was REALLY wishing I had some magnification to see what was going on, and I thought the CQT would be a good compromise but I am afraid you may be correct that there is no way to have iron sights, and I'm not even going to consider going without some backup.

I am VERY happy with the MagPul stock, even if it looks like a toy robots leg.  It is rock solid when locked into position, and I can recommend that to anyone.

How did you build that for "just a tad" over $1k? The EOTech 552 costs about $400, the YHM rail is about $100, the TD vert grip is $55, the ARMS #40L is $110, the Tac Star light is like $85 (I think that is what you have), and the sling is probably $30. That means that the accessories alone cost around $780 (maybe minus $100). That's not even including mags, rail covers, Mag-Puls, or anything else you can't see in that pic.

Unless of course your AR only cost $300, you get the greatest deals in the world, or "just a tad" to you means $500+

Quoted: Quoted: If you need 2500 to build a carbean, you first need your head checked. www.airforcesecuritypolice.com/invisionboard/uploads/post-3-1110656141.jpg I built the above pictured one for just a tad over 1k.   $2500 is almost like saying price is no object. I guess I would get an LMT upper, and one of the FF rails (larue, DD, samson etc). The lower might as well be LMT, though it really isn't an issue for me. The optic would be an Eotech 552 as pictured above. The BUIS would be a ARMS 40L, as pictured above. The light would be one of the newer pentagonlights. For me, I would throw on a VFG, and put the rest into mags, ammo, and if I wasn't already a fulltime officer/ firearm instructor who gets a good amount of training and classes, I would go to a carbine class. I also figure that most people are prior military and start with a solid knowledge of the M16 family.  If not, a carbine class should be mandatory before bad habits start.

Mine would be MRP based.

Quoted: LMT 16" upper LaRue 7.0 LMT Lower Magpul Rail Covers Magpul M93B Magpul MIAD Colt M16 BCG Troy BUIS KAC trigger Aimpount M3 LaRue Cantilever Mount Phantom PRI big latch Your choice of VFG and Surefire or better yet a Gladius when its released This will run right at $2500 and you can sell the original LMT stock if it runs a few bucks over.  If it does not buy a sling with the extra money. This is very close to my personal rig. For mags I would go D&H Black Teflon with +25% springs Magpul followers and old school Magpuls turned sideways.

I guess this is the sort of post I was hoping for.  I really meant for this thread to be more of a fun exercise in picking your dream carbine than a life and death type thing.  I appreciate all of the other suggestions, but I'm really more interested in how you would outfit your no-holds-barred carbine.

J_MONEY


A tad to me means a little over, like $30-50.  Your guesses on what I paid for items are way off (thankfully).  I've also built ARs for under $300, but that isn't really what this thread is about, you can do a search for those threads if you are interested.

Look for where the good deals are, and have others looking for you as well.  My new Colt Bolt & BC ran me $40 or 50 and a cup of coffee.

Quoted: J_MONEY A tad to me means a little over, like $30-50.  Your guesses on what I paid for items are way off (thankfully).  I've also built ARs for under $300, but that isn't really what this thread is about, you can do a search for those threads if you are interested. Look for where the good deals are, and have others looking for you as well.  My new Colt Bolt & BC ran me $40 or 50 and a cup of coffee.

Well then you are one lucky bastard and you must have found some amazing deals!! Did you get most of the items used off the EE?

Quoted: LMT 16" upper LaRue 7.0 LMT Lower Magpul Rail Covers   TD Rail Covers Magpul M93B   Vltor Stock Magpul MIAD   TD Battle Grip Colt M16 BCG Troy BUIS KAC trigger Aimpoint M3   EOTech 552 or 512 LaRue Cantilever Mount   LaRue EOTech Mount Phantom PRI big latch Your choice of VFG TD Vert Grip and Surefire or maybe a Pentagon or better yet a Gladius when its released

Those would be my changes, mostly personal preference

Quoted: I guess this is the sort of post I was hoping for.  I really meant for this thread to be more of a fun exercise in picking your dream carbine than a life and death type thing.  I appreciate all of the other suggestions, but I'm really more interested in how you would outfit your no-holds-barred carbine.

If you plan on using this gun to defend you life and the lives of others as a LEO it is a life and death thing.

Does your Field Training Officer know you are here

Bushmaster M4A3 + LaRue 7" FF Handgaurd + Surefire Millenium + LaRue Keeper (holds handgaurd so it doesnt ever pinch gas tube) + Ranger Plates and Green Followers on all Mags. + Aimpoint + More LaRue stuff = My baby.  

Oh yah. More LaRue stuff.

-G

Quoted: Quoted: J_MONEY A tad to me means a little over, like $30-50.  Your guesses on what I paid for items are way off (thankfully).  I've also built ARs for under $300, but that isn't really what this thread is about, you can do a search for those threads if you are interested. Look for where the good deals are, and have others looking for you as well.  My new Colt Bolt & BC ran me $40 or 50 and a cup of coffee. Well then you are one lucky bastard and you must have found some amazing deals!! Did you get most of the items used off the EE?

No, a few were through people online, but most were dealing with good people who take good care of me.  I try to do the same for them.

I'm not sure about the lucky part, but I've heard the word bastard thrown my way plenty of times.

if you had 2500 to build a gun i would use a
LW MRS gas piston upper
kac trigger
vltor stock
IOR optic 1-4 zoom
LMT lower
use the rest for ammo

I'd SBR it first then build 4 uppers and buy a Eotech

Stock  Bushy M4A3 flattop

replaced collapasible with full A2 stock (why?  just to piss you gadget gizmo wannaneedahaveitz off)

reworked USGI mags with magpul followers / wolff springs x 12

ARMS 40L,

AP Ml2 with larue point.

TT 3 point sling

remainder to training

Quoted: Quoted: LMT 16" upper LaRue 7.0 LMT Lower Magpul Rail Covers   TD Rail Covers Magpul M93B   Vltor Stock Magpul MIAD   TD Battle Grip Colt M16 BCG Troy BUIS KAC trigger Aimpoint M3   EOTech 552 or 512 LaRue Cantilever Mount   LaRue EOTech Mount Phantom PRI big latch Your choice of VFG TD Vert Grip and Surefire or maybe a Pentagon or better yet a Gladius when its released Those would be my changes, mostly personal preference

As you can see a lot is personal preference.  I dont like the TD products.  The pistol grip is too small for me and I prefer the G27 over the TD product, the front grip is egg shaped with the pressure pad not installed and the cover in place and I dont like its feel plus its a bitch to install.  I dont like the "feel" of the VLTOR nor (as sad as this is to admit) the way it looks.  Dont like the slick feel of the TD panels over the Magpul variety.  I like KAC panels more than TD panels.  All personal preference though.  Pentagon is new and I have not heard any reports on it in use nor tried one myself nor was it available till last week.  I persoanlly run an M900 and never see the need to remove the grip so that fills both roles for me.  If you get a TD vertical grip it aint coming off fast anyway.  I have seen a lot of EOtechs fail nor do I like the circle of fuzzy dots reticle and the Aimpoint battery life will allow you to not need to turn the thing off and on.  Have had lots of battery  life issues with other optics so thats way high priority for me. I know I said M93B which is not out yet but I know it design is fixed and has been for weeks and used all the other M93s so I reccomended it.  Is that foolish?  Perhaps but I doubt it.  I have used a lot of stuff and changed my personal set up many times over the years.  This set up is perfect for me... perhaps its not for you.

A better suggestion is to TRY everything you can.  Meet local members and try their set ups.  Go to gun shows and look at the products first hand.  Figure out what you want the rifle to do and fill only those requirements.

Quoted: Did it already: Differences from what you mention:  I have found no useful purpose for any rails other than the bottom rail for VFG, so I  did not use any rail system. BUIS are not installed in this photo, I'm still tinkering with different models to see what works best.  Will likely move to a QD mount for the optic.

Hey TexasSIG.

I see that you use the Hornaday TAP ammo.

Can you tell me anymore about it? I'm interested in trying it out, but I can't find it anywhere local to buy a few boxes, and I don't want to drop $150 for an online purchase.

Thanks!

Quoted: Hey TexasSIG. I see that you use the Hornaday TAP ammo. Can you tell me anymore about it? I'm interested in trying it out, but I can't find it anywhere local to buy a few boxes, and I don't want to drop $150 for an online purchase. Thanks!

I get it from Northwest Loading Supply (a site sponsor).  They sell it box at a time if you want to try it.

Everyone goes on about the Black Hills Mk262, but I can't find that in a steady supply.  It's very similar.  75gr OTM bullet, cannelured, gets great reviews everywhere.  I have yet to read anything bad about it.
It groups very nice for me, and I also have an 11.5" bbl rifle so I don't worry about fragmentation issues with that short barrel.  I can recommend it.

That said, the Black Hills comes as highly recommended, I just can't find a steady supply. What I do find is sold as "blems" or "seconds" and I just don't like buying ammo I would stake my life on with the words "factory second" on the box.  Probably nothing to it, but that's why I went with the TAP.

Watch it though, TAP comes in several flavors, the 75gr OTM bullet is the only one you want for defensive use.

Quoted: LMT MRP upper. Either Tango Down MagPul or Vltor stock (TD is heavier but nicer and should balance better) Troy Buis EOTech 552 with LaRue Mount. SureFire Scout Light with LED 60 Lumen head. Tango Down battle grip. Bushmaster or LMT lower.

That sounds a heck of a lot like my MRP!

Anyhow, for $2500...

LMT 16" Upper
PRI Big Latch CH
LaRue BUIS
SF M73/used KAC RIS or RAS
Surefire Scoutlight
TD Vert Grip/Panels
Aimpoint ML3 in LaRue Cant Mount
Bushy Lower
TD Battlegrip
VLTOR standard carbine Modstock

The rest goes to mags, ammo, and a set of ComTacIIs.

Quoted: If you need 2500 to build a carbean, you first need your head checked.

the correct term is "carbine". That has nothing to do with beans or Mr. Bean.

Quoted: I get it from Northwest Loading Supply (a site sponsor).  They sell it box at a time if you want to try it. Everyone goes on about the Black Hills Mk262, but I can't find that in a steady supply.  It's very similar.  75gr OTM bullet, cannelured, gets great reviews everywhere.  I have yet to read anything bad about it. It groups very nice for me, and I also have an 11.5" bbl rifle so I don't worry about fragmentation issues with that short barrel.  I can recommend it. That said, the Black Hills comes as highly recommended, I just can't find a steady supply. What I do find is sold as "blems" or "seconds" and I just don't like buying ammo I would stake my life on with the words "factory second" on the box.  Probably nothing to it, but that's why I went with the TAP. Watch it though, TAP comes in several flavors, the 75gr OTM bullet is the only one you want for defensive use.

Great! Thanks! I'll give it a whirl!