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Posted: 3/11/2005 7:21:50 AM EDT
[#1]
NO!!!
you better get a case of ky jelly, the nights will be cold and oh so long |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 7:24:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Owning an AR15 gives you no legal rights in and of itself.
Rule of thumb: If a BATF agent can make it fire more that one shot per single trigger pull, it is a machinegun, and illegal for civilians to own unless it is built on a registered transferable machinegun receiver. Stay away form M16 fire control group parts (trigger,hammer, sear, selector, unregistered pre-81 DIAS), anything else M16 is OK as it can't make an AR15 fire more than one shot per trigger pull. The simple act of drilling a hole in your AR15 receiver that could accept an M16 autosear could get you time in the big house, AFAIK. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 7:24:33 AM EDT
[#3]
It's called 'Intent to build a Machine Gun" and lands you in the Pokey
That is ok IF THAT IS THE ONLY M16 Part in the rifle. It's a common thing to do in High Power as the heavier weight of the Bolt Carrier is reported to be more reliable and have a more consistant lockup.
They why ask about FA Parts? Stay away from FA fire control group parts and you'll be ok. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 7:25:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Step away from the keyboard :) |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 8:20:22 AM EDT
[#5]
I've seen this question asked a few times and it seems to boil down to this:
If your gun fires more than one round with a single trigger pull, you're screwed If an LEO ever asks to inspect your weapon for any reason and finds M16 parts you could be screwed The M16 bolt is usually considered the only real M16 part that you can use safely without the risk of building a FA weapon, or a weapon that would bring undo scrutiny Personally, I'd aviod all M16 parts like the plague and save yourself the headache |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 8:21:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Good Advice. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 9:34:20 AM EDT
[#7]
One way ticket to Poundyouintheass Prison
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Posted: 3/11/2005 10:17:32 AM EDT
[#8]
It doesnt matter anyway, you would not be approved to buy the parts without proof of ownership of a NFA weapon, and a copy of your tax stamp.
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Posted: 3/11/2005 10:27:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Bullshit. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:08:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Wow, i guess you have never been to a gunshow, or read shotgun news, or even paid a little attention. moron. 
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:10:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Wow, I guess you haven't paid attention either. I have purchased M16 bolt carriers from any number of places without them asking for any paperwork, along with a few other parts. Yes some vendors are careful, but there is no law against selling M16 fire control parts. I swear some people just sit around and make stuff up. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:23:56 AM EDT
[#12]
26 U.S.C. Sec. 5845 (b) Machinegun – The term “machine gun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:32:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Nope sorry personal attack removed - Hawkeye, I go to gun shows all the time, and yep, they require it. I dont know what kindof podunk backcountry redneck militia shows you go to, but the ones I go to are strick and legal about that kind of shit. In clarification, I dont doubt for a second, that with due diligence you can find a set, however, its illegal. The only "legal" way to obtain a set of those parts is by providing evidence of a NFA weapon. Kthxbye.... |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:34:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Grab a current Bushmaster firearms catalog, and read it. And no I dont just "make this shit up as I go along" personal attack removed - Hawkeye. I will find it and post a link for the idiots.... |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:36:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Here is one link.........http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/3shotburstkit.asp
Read the fine print... And another......http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/arehab.asp They need a copy of your tax stamp before sale of these items. This is just one manufacturer out of many that require this....... Should I wash my balls for you all who doubted to suck on or do you like the taste of sweat??? anther one......http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/arehab.asp |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:39:24 AM EDT
[#16]
BUSHMASTER DOES NOT SET FEDERAL LAW BUSHMASTER POLICY IS NOT FEDERAL LAW PURCHASING M16 PARTS REQUIRES NO PAPERWORK no NFA stamp, no LEO approval, no letter from mommy... M16 parts are unregulated. What is regulated is taking those parts, of a combnation of parts, that can make a firearm that fires more than 1 shot per operation of teh trigger. Bring a spoon. It'll help you EAT MY ASS.  
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:42:33 AM EDT
[#17]
I never claimed that brainiac. All I claimed is that they are abiding by the law. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:43:15 AM EDT
[#18]
First of all, there is no need for name calling. Settle down guys, were all friends here. Take a few deep breaths count to 10 and untangle your panties.
Second, When did Bushmaster start making/enforcing laws? I believe it is perfectly legal to buy/sell/own M16 fire control parts as long as there are no ar-15 lowers on your property. Best to just stay away from those parts and it will never be an issue. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:44:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Fair enough. Please provide the exact text of the US law that requires any M16 parts to be purchased only by the holder of a tax stamp. [insert jeopardy music here] |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:44:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Mr tea, I agree, the name calling is silly, but the way they came out and replied to my post, at the very least demands a beating..... So I responded accordingly. Treat others how you want to be treated....
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:46:00 AM EDT
[#21]
26 U.S.C. Sec. 5845 (b) Machinegun – The term “machine gun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
Read that again slowly, especially the part in bold letters. If you can't read, get your mom to help you. So, personal attack removed - Hawkeye, if you don't own a receiver, what good are the fire control parts, they are not controlled items, there is no law against selling them, Bushmaster is playing it safe, personal attack removed - Hawkeye, let's see..... did I leave anything else out? And, if I have the tax stamp for a registered machinegun, and I need spare parts, I can buy them from any number of sources, without showing the tax stamp. The guys at guns shows require the paperwork to protect themselves from idiots like you. Just because a manufacturer requires something doesn't mean it's a law, it means they have a smart legal staff. (smart means intelligence, ask your mom for help with that one also, and your sweaty balls)
Yep. Make sure you know what you are talking about before you post in a public forum. You give good advice, just don't take it well. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:46:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Hey, all of you, I implore you, if you want these parts, go buy bags of them.. Afterwards, make sure if you dont have a NFA weapon and tax stamp, please go invest in "vaseline" because you and Mr Ben Dover, will be spending 10 years plus together..... Kthxbye..
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:48:01 AM EDT
[#23]
2 wrongs don't make a right Jivana. Love you, Mom |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:50:27 AM EDT
[#24]
All right, since I cant quote the laws like scripture here goes.....
If you dont own a NFA gun and have NFA parts in your possesion, you are screwed. Now maybe there is technically no law out there saying that, but try telling that to the ATF agent hauling your ass off.... If you own a NFA gun, then your fine. Have fun with the parts. So yes, you all are right, there is no law that says you HAVE TO provide anything to buy these parts, but if you dont own a NFA weapon, well then good luck to yah. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:53:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Texas SIG is right.
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:56:09 AM EDT
[#26]
You don't Have to have NFA paperwork because there is no law requiring such. And I can have Barrels of NFA parts without a tax stamp. The only time you will be in violation of the law is if you have A part (DIAS) or combination of parts (Complete M16 FCG, Carrier, and possibly the knowledge and a drill press) that will enable a firearm to fire more than 1 shot per operation of the trigger. Im sorry, but you have failed to prove your point. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 11:57:52 AM EDT
[#27]
You don't need a tax stamp to buy F/A parts.
If you want to get down to the most basic BS idea of that law, you could argue, or the BATF could argue, that owning any lower in combination with any upper could be the makings of a machinegun. I mean really.......... you do need a barrel and a buffer tube to have a machinegun. Right? Ever tried to shoot one without either of those? |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 12:03:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Yea, but I've only had marginal success. Nothing seems to happen when I pull the trigger. Can't figure out what's wrong. Can somone help diagnose this? |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 12:09:22 PM EDT
[#29]
SURE! See you didn't have two very important parts that would have made your rifle possibly fire more than two rounds with one pull of the trigger. Whew! Don't you feel lucky! Could have gone to jail with Bubba over that one. 
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Posted: 3/11/2005 12:14:50 PM EDT
[#30]
OK point taken. Still, BATF would probably have a field day if they found your stripped lower and the barrel full of M16 fire control parts in your garage. Considering some of the silly things I've heard they put people through the ringer for. Of course I’ve spoken to some of these road scholars and they probably wouldn't know the difference between a barrel of M16 fire control parts and one of those barrel of monkeys games. "These plastic monkeys field test positive as a machine gun!" |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 12:22:15 PM EDT
[#31]
I am a lawyer, and I have never researched the law, but here is my interpretation:
26 U.S.C. Sec. 5845 (b) Machinegun – The term “machine gun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The whole machine gun - lock, stock and barrel. Also, includes an M16, with the auto sear taken out, or other such trickery. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, Parts which are exclusively machine gun parts - auto sears, triggers, etc - no other purpose but machine-gunnery. I think it could be strongly argued that the FA bolt carrier, which is dual purpose, is not a "machine gun." If it is, then isn't the barrel? It can also be used in both FA and auto versions. and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. This is more vague, but seems like this is meant to get at people who have the machine gun, but have it all taken to pieces. This is NOT authoritative, and there may be case law and administrative interpretations out there that interprets the statute differently. Given the anti gun bias in some courts, there could be interpretations that read this statute pretty loosely. And please, stop with the name calling and swearing. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 1:00:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Instead of name calling try and buy some M16 parts and see what happens:
Genuine M16 Carrier See if they require any "proof". Then when your parts arrive, call BATF and report them and see what happens. Nothing. If you do not know what you are talking about, perhaps you should shut up and learn something instead. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 1:10:38 PM EDT
[#33]
September 2004.......  Approval? From what entity? Is the vendor going to call and check? Do vendors have the means to verify my Form 4? Do they have the authority to view my Form 4? |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 1:11:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Please stop posting. This is not a factual statement. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 1:12:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Not all things you read in Bushmaster's catalog are true. In fact, their statement that it is required by Federal Law is erroneous. Please stop posting. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 1:15:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quit while you are far, far behind....... |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 1:34:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Hmm, I just recieved the complete bolt/carrier and FCG parts for an M16 this week. Even came with one of those nasty FA barrels and the evil FA stock set as well! Oh my God, I'm going to meet Bubba in jail any minute now!
Get real, you don't need anything more than a credit card or green paper pictures of George Washington as proof that you can buy FA parts. Geez, I work around this "evil men in black helicopters in the night coming to rape my family and shoot my dog" stuff every day and can categorically state that if the BATF is coming after you to check on your AR15 with the FA trigger piece, then you have much bigger problems than that little piece of metal! |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 2:27:42 PM EDT
[#38]
The BATF doesn't like it.
US v Thompson Center tells us that if you don't have a use for the parts in a legal configuration you're asking for trouble.
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Posted: 3/11/2005 2:50:18 PM EDT
[#39]
I dont know if the biggest show east of the Missisip counts but I have seen m16 fire control parts for sale for years. They used to actually sell the little baggy full of all you need for the lower. Now whos the dipshit. You live in the land of mormon and YOUR gonna talk smack about back country ?? 
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Posted: 3/11/2005 3:00:29 PM EDT
[#40]
One more thing, my NIB Colt AR15A3 6721 OH MY GOD
 CAME FROM COLT WITH A M16 CARRIER!!! One thing I do question is if I have a Ar15 lower that is not capable of accepting full auto trigger parts I dont see where that would put me in jepardy. If I had a lower that was milled and drilled OK, but not a current mfg lower. I would like clarafication on that if anyone can tell for sure that does NOT live in Utah. |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 5:53:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Why would you want the parts? They almost look the same anyway.. If you have no desire for select fire, why do you ask? |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 6:21:50 PM EDT
[#42]
My brother has Registered FA and if his parts are in my house when he isnt there I dont want to get in trouble for having FA parts with my AR. I guess it doent matter any way because even if his FA FCG is in my house my BM receiver cant fit FA parts and I dont have a FA bolt carrier. Therefore, it will not shoot FA even if I did have all the parts. Nevertheless, im going to stay away from anything FA except for maybe the bolt carrier. Does a FA bolt carrier really improve the function? |
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Posted: 3/11/2005 9:15:57 PM EDT
[#43]
No.. Just run an unbastardized ( shrouded carrier), not the cutaway type and you will be fine.
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Posted: 3/11/2005 10:22:55 PM EDT
[#44]
IBTL :D
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Posted: 3/12/2005 3:03:07 AM EDT
[#45]
FWIW, i've had better luck with an M16 carrier over an AR15 carrier in my AR pistol. Some people think there's no difference. But for me, the added weight seemed to help it slam home better. helped prevent bounce back a wee bit. YMMV. |
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Posted: 3/12/2005 3:19:58 AM EDT
[#46]
I can make any SA AR fire more than 1 shot per trigger pull... It is not hard to do... I have fixed many a gun with worn parts tha will do it. I am probably one of the few who has actually spent a fair amount of time working to get ATF to modify their declarations. I have been verbally told that if it will not fire FA, then the type of parts do not matter. Example given to me was all FA fire control parts EXCEPT selector being SA would be fine. Makes sense to me... I have also been told that new book of regs is coming out and it will clarify this question. Keep an eye out to the ATF web site. mark |
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Posted: 3/12/2005 3:34:55 AM EDT
[#47]
Stop the BS name calling......NOW.
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Posted: 3/12/2005 3:43:16 AM EDT
[#48]
edit:
M16 stuff can lead to you being called prison-bitch, if you aint careful this was a trap, wasnt it?
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Posted: 3/12/2005 3:49:18 AM EDT
[#49]
No.. Just run an unbastardized ( shrouded carrier), not the cutaway type and you will be fine.
Just what is a shrouded carrier? |
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Posted: 3/12/2005 4:04:37 AM EDT
[#50]
It has the firing pin area covered. Most AR15 carriers have the firing pin exposed. Idea is it'll cause the hammer to snag on the firing pin in the even of a slam fire. it works, but can also cause extra wear. |
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