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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:25:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Sure. Do you mean legally?
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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:26:24 PM EDT
[#2]
edited for clarification
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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:26:41 PM EDT
[#3]
While not impossible, it is very unlikely that you will find a true FN upper receiver assembly for sale. Many claim to have them, loosely tying themselves with FN by stating "made by the same contractors that make parts for FN", but that is likely a stretch. Maybe in a number of years, when they start milsurping out some of the uppers you MAY.
I presently own an FN A2 upper receiver and have owned a like new FN GI barrel, which like a simple minded dumbass, I sold before I knew exactly what I had. I also have an FN bolt and an FN hammer and a number of FN extractors. The parts are out there. They are "leaking" out of the military supply system, but finding a complete upper assembly is unlikely at this time. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:28:49 PM EDT
[#4]
I was under the impression that domestic sale of M16 parts by FN was not allowed under the guidelines of their contract.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 3:40:40 PM EDT
[#5]
That only means FN cannot sell to you directly. It doesn't mean you cannot obtain it overwise through another channel, such as when the military surplus out the parts. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:05:55 PM EDT
[#6]
I got a gun show FN A3 upper, that has out of spec. mount rails.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 4:28:14 PM EDT
[#7]
What markings are on it? |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 7:14:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Ain't never gonna happen. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 8:04:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Why is it never going to happen? They're made here, right? It would not be an imported part. Anyone know relaible details (supported by documentation) on this? Or are we in the "speculation zone"?
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Posted: 1/8/2005 8:08:57 PM EDT
[#10]
They are components of a class 3 weapon. The .gov will NOT surplus those out on the market. When was the last time you saw USGI uppers for M16s and M16A1s in the surplus market? I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I will be. |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 8:12:15 PM EDT
[#11]
If I wanted a Colt upper I know where to get it. I'm not talking about "machine gun parts" here, jsut an upper receiver.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 8:13:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Legally? Not something that was five-finger-discounted from an armory? |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 8:23:42 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't know, only the seller knows that. These guys have Colts: ASI
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Posted: 1/8/2005 9:23:54 PM EDT
[#14]
SWO_daddy, You're very mistaken on this. Where do you think the M16A1 uppers that CDNN, Kiesler's, and KY Imports (just to name a few) are coming from. They are mil surp from the A1's that were upgraded with the A2 PIP kit for the most part. The only Class 3 components that we can't get legally are the (lower) receivers. They are the only parts of the M16 that are considered firearms by the ATF. Without the lowers all the other components are just parts! 
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Posted: 1/8/2005 9:29:31 PM EDT
[#15]
A quick internet search turned up J&T Distributing selling rifles with what they say is an FN contract upper receiver. They also just sell the upper.
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Posted: 1/8/2005 9:30:15 PM EDT
[#16]
So I can put all Machine gun parts in my upper, and it wont mean anything legally unless I add a Class three lower.? Interesting, I've often heard that M16 bolts and carriers cycle better and are more reliable than AR15 bolts and carriers. Could I then add an M16 bolt to my rifle without fear of 25 years in the joint and a fat fine? Anything to make a rifle more reliable is something worth doing as long as it isnt illegal |
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Posted: 1/8/2005 9:53:55 PM EDT
[#17]
I never meant to imply that you can install an M16 FCG, for instance, in your AR15 and remain legal. I said that you can legally buy all of these (FA) parts that you want legally. Posession of them along with the rest of the components that would allow you to build a complete firearm could be interpreted by the ATF as 'intent' to build a machine gun and you might go away for that! The M16 bolt carrier legality issue has been discussed (and argued) here over and over again. It's kind of a gray area but IIRC just using the carrier in an otherwise SA firearm will not bring the heat down on you. Lots of members ( including guess who) do exactly that. The bolt itself doesn't matter because it's the same, SA or FA. Refer to the current thread on Colt BC problems for details on using the M16 carrier. |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 2:26:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Unfortunately, Str8shot, it is you who are mistaken. Due to the US (read: Klinton) signing the UN Small Arms Proliferation Treaty in 1997, and then Klinton's Executive Order clarifying how this treaty was to be enforced by the military, weapons, weapons parts, and ammo are no longer surplussed for civilan sales (other things are affected too; BDUs and other military clothing is no longer surplussed). All weapons components now have to be demil'ed. This means that barrels and receivers are cut up, magazines are crushed, and a lot of ammo is burned. There are plenty of active duty military, including armorers, here that can confirm all of this. The uppers that CDNN is selling are uppers and guns that the US military sold or gave to other countries as military aid, who have then turned around and sold them back to the US to get hard currency. In other words, they were exported and reimported. This, and to a much more limited extent, the CMP program, are the only *legal* ways to get surplus US military weapon parts. There are also stocks of parts purchased before '97, but those stocks have been greatly depleted. That's why you don't see parts everywhere like you used to. Short of a major change in policy, there will never be a surplussing of US military M16 parts to the public. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 4:52:03 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 1/9/2005 4:52:55 AM EDT
[#20]
I love these threads, there is so much disinformation being thrown around.
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Posted: 1/9/2005 6:40:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Right. And they didn't even ad the "contract" part until we called BS here about two years ago. Since then, we've had at least two FN employees, one of whom is a member here and a VP at FN, call BS on even this claim. The closest J&T can come to this claim being true is that the raw forgings, which are solid lumps of aluminum in the general outside shape of the receivers, come from the same source. FN claims to do their receiver machining in-house. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 7:31:25 AM EDT
[#22]
I have no desire to get into an argument w/Troy; who knows about as much about AR stuff as anyone out there, but the simple fact is that there ARE genuine FN produced FN A1 and A2 barrels, and A2 upper recievers on the civie market, and Executive Orders signed by Bill Clinton are only as valid under the current administration as Mr Bush cares to make them. I do note that the pieces mentioned above have only started showing up on the civie market since the end of the Clinton Administration.
 Now whether these uppers and barrels are US released milsurp, or reimports from overseas is not as important as the fact that, if somebody really wants one these items, they can be found. No, there are no flat top uppers by FN, nor anything in barrels, other than the 20" A1 and A2 types, and anyone who is advertising such is BSing you. And as Troy has pointed out, FN makes its' own uppers and barrels, and does not use subcontractors, so anyone who is trying to sell you an upper or a barrel made ny a "subcontractor" is lying. Frankly, w/all the Colt stuff that's out there at good prices right now, I feel no crying need to hunt down anything by FN, but I do understand why some folks might
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Posted: 1/9/2005 8:03:47 AM EDT
[#23]
The best depiction of the military supply system that I can think of, from first hand experience. Most parts stay in, but many "leak out". Some of these leaks are legit - DRMO, milsurp, etc., some aren't so legit.
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Posted: 1/9/2005 10:37:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Troy,
If you took the time to thoroughly read my post before jumping in my shit you would have realized that I set NO CUTOFF DATE for the availability of legal surplus M16 parts. I only stated that these parts are legal for civilian purchase and that they are right there, on the market, and available TODAY! And Shamayim is absolutely correct when he states that Klinton's exeutive order doesn't have to be followed by the Bush administration. As to whether more mil surp M16 parts will come on the civilian market in the future, all I can say is look for the disposition of A2 uppers when the A2 to A4 PIP goes into effect. I won't speculate on what the outcome is going to be, but I will state that a cost effectiveness study at the DOD has consideration of the monetary gain to be derived from the sales of the surplus uppers factored into it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2005 10:49:46 AM EDT
[#25]
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