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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:40:09 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#2]
What SPECIFICALLY gave you that idea?? |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:44:36 AM EDT
[#3]
I'd consider them about equal, a little bit under Colt.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:45:06 AM EDT
[#4]
I personally think so. I just like armalite, though, so I can't really say that one is better. BTW Rusty, how can you call BS on a question?
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:48:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Because it's a BS question designed to draw a negative response. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:08:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Im sorry man, I did not ask the question trying to get any negative responses. I am purely going off what I have seen and felt myself. If you pick up an Armalite and look it over and play with it, then pick up a Bushmaster and do the same thing, I just felt in my opinion that the Armalite just felt like a more rugged, higher quality weapon. It seems like Armalite barrels were a higher standard all together too.... Now dont get me wrong, I OWN a Bushmaster and love it to death, but I have been keeping an eye on Armalites lately and was just curious what the common feelings were. Sorry if I offended you Rusty.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:15:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Completely false. Bushmaster offers everything Armalite does as far as spec conponents and in addition, the following... Milspec barrels with 4150 steel and chrome lined and 5.56 chambers Lower that is RDIAS ready. Dry lube in buffer tube Government profile barrels And what is the that stupid front site Armalite uses with the set screws? When considering quality/most milspec it goes like this..... 1. Colt military 2. Colt commerical/Bushmaster (each brand has it's own quirks so I can't put one above the other) 3. Armalite 4. Rock River 5. Olympic This is taking into consideration that all the rifles are assembled equally and not by a monkey. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:31:07 AM EDT
[#8]
I see. Thanks for clarifying that. This is why I asked the retorical question because here is how I had always thought the totem pole layed.....
1.Colt 2.Armalite 3.Bushmaster 4.Rock River 5.Olympic 6.DPMS |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:37:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Colt and BMI are THE best around IMHO.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:37:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Try not to take my post the wrong way, but if you have seen Armalite products and like them, why not just go and buy one. The best way to learn about something is to go and experience it yourself. If you wanted to share your experience with both types of rifles, you could of just shared your experience. Your post did appear to be an attempt to stir up an argument on here. I hope that wasn't the case, so I'm going to take your explenation at face value. 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:41:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Everything? 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:50:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Whatever you do decide to get, DON'T SHOOT IT UNDER WATER
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:51:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Bullshit. Prove it. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one. Only the Colt military is MilSpec. 5sub |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:55:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Is being "most milspec" like being almost a Navy SEAL?  How about LMT? Did the, now obsolete, Colt rifles with large FCG pins and front pivot screws make your list? |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:55:08 AM EDT
[#15]
YES!
And BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED! |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:57:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Olympic has NO spec. Each of their shit bombs is a 100% unique lop of shit. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:57:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Armalite has chrome line and chrome 5.56 chambers !!!  armalite is more milspec then COLT !!!! ARMALITE !!!!
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:59:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Fellas, fellas, Im sorry. I didnt realize this would turn into a shit stink fest. My bad.
Moderators if you feel it necessary go ahead and delete this thread. I honestly did not mean for this thread to go this route. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:02:18 AM EDT
[#19]
I pretty much agree with this except that BM doesn't offer a midlength. Plus he didn't really mention milspec in the original post. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:02:50 AM EDT
[#20]
YOU KNEW! |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:09:09 AM EDT
[#21]
I certainly hope your joking.... Im not a troll and I did not intend for this to be a pissing match. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:17:25 AM EDT
[#22]
 Don't take these guys too seriously! Dood, it's the internet!  COLT RULES!!!!! ARMALITE is sub-par compared to Colt! 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:21:46 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm sorry, but something needs to be put to rest here once and for all. There is absolutely no such thing as a "milspec" or even "almost milspec" AR. The very term "milspec" as it relates to ARs has been bastardized into a bullshit marketing buzzword and nothing more. Any manufacturer who regularly throws around terms like "milspec", "national match", "tactical", "SOCOM" etc should be looked upon with a weary eye at best. If you want to look purely at "milspec" construction materials used in ARs then Bushy, Colt, and LMT would get the nod. -4150 steel -MP tested -Chrome-lined barrels and chambers (except for certain Bushy and Colt barrels) -Proper finishes and sealcoating Using the proper constructions materials is only half of the battle however. The processes used to manufacture, finish, and most importantly inspect/test the finished parts is just as important as the parts themselves. I'll gladly take a properly assembled RRA for example, with it's "inferior" barrel steel over an AR built with "milspec" materials that was assenbled with questionable (or non-existent) QA procedures. Anyone who looks primarily at specs and not build quality deserves whatever problems they get. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:21:55 AM EDT
[#24]
Ok here is fact to prove you wrong.... 1. Obviously Colt military is the most milspec 2. Colt Commerical/Bushmaster are the next. Fact: Colt comercial uses funny pins sizes, blocks in lowers and plastic buffers in some rifles. Fact: Bushmaster doesnt parkerize under the FSB and doesn't use millspec buffer tubes on carbines. Both of these small issues make these two about equal. 3. Armalite is further down because fact----> they don't have a 4150 military barrel, use a FSB with setscrews, and have all the non-milspec componet parts a Bushmaster has. 4. Rock River is futher down because the have all the non-spec componets listed above and FACT: They do not have a bufffer tube with dry lube, the upper receiver doesn't have dry lube, no metal buttstock door, 4140 barrels 5. Olympic is further yet down as they have all the non-spec parts listed above and they do not have chrome barrels. Nice try but you are wrong. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:25:59 AM EDT
[#25]
But they dont make true military barrels. You need to reread my post. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:27:33 AM EDT
[#26]
That wasn't the point of my post. I am not talking about configuration. I am talking about the quality and milspec of components used in the rifle. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:31:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Thank you......  .....have a beer.....My current favorite is the 4140 vs. 4150 steel.....a metallurgist analyzing the metal composition would have to test EXTENSIVELY to find the different elements -- but the AR shooter knows he's got it though.  |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 10:03:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Think Bushmaster has very slight edge over Armalite regarding AR15s, but then Armalite has AR10 so they don't have any advantages over each other...
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Posted: 10/28/2004 10:08:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Ok so several posts have made the point that Colt Military model rifles are of course the highest quality, but can civilians get their hands on an actual Colt Military rifle?
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Posted: 10/28/2004 10:12:46 AM EDT
[#30]
You guys need to remember that even where colt is concerned. The U.S. Govt. does not buy quality. They solicit bids and purchase the cheapest price.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 10:43:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Don't kill yourself trying to sort out which is better.
Like snakes?...get a Bushy Like Lions?......Armalite Horses?...........Colt is for youThey're all good, they are all rugged enough, accurate enough and will last you a lifetime with reasonable care. 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 10:49:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Exactly!!! The idea that "MILSPEC" is somehow the highest quality, is a joke. BTW, FN is MILSPEC too. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 10:49:59 AM EDT
[#33]
But you need to remember that there is an exhaustive set of required QA protocols, procedures, and proofs necessary for said weapon to meet the required military standard. Those of us who like using Colt parts in our builds like them because our bolts, carriers, barrels etc have been subjected to the very same testing, and bear the same proof marks, as their mil counterparts. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 12:05:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Thats why I am getting a Colt this time. I had an Oly (POS IMHO) a few Bushies, liked them alot. This time its going to be a Colt. SAme reason as you, they are tested and proofed in the same place and manner the Govt issued ones are. And as I carried a few Colts while in the Army and used them in the most extreme of conditions, I can honestly say I trust them. Sure my bushies were great when I gave them civilian treatment, but I know for a fact my Colts have been there and done that with me. I know exactly what they can take. Not saying a Bushie cant do or take the same, I just have first hand experience with Colts in a tactical setting and it gave me the utmost confidence. And FWIW the H&R I had in basic training kicked ass. It took a beating there as well. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 12:13:28 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 10/28/2004 12:15:41 PM EDT
[#36]
No not really no....
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Posted: 10/28/2004 12:23:01 PM EDT
[#37]
I would say all three make equal quality ar's. However, Bushmaster and Armalite are part of our community. I don't just mean arfcom, but the black rifle community.
Colt just ain't there imo. I will never buy a colt over one of the other two. I own a Bushy -15 an armalit -10 and a RRA -15 (with a bushmaster ulw barrel). All three rock. TXL |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 12:28:11 PM EDT
[#38]
 10 what's better than who? |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 1:12:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Now, the real question is if Armalite is better than LMT.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 1:17:11 PM EDT
[#40]
You cannot inspect Quality into a product. ArmaLite builds to their own drawings. They build Quality into their product. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 2:07:29 PM EDT
[#41]
For those arguing that the US Gov solicits bids, buys cheap, and doesn't care about quality.....
I have one questions for you. Are you going to come out and say an Aimpoint M68, Trijicon ACOG, or a KAC RAS is a cheap, low bid, questionable qualitity item? Scott |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:00:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Are you going to say that the M60 and M73/M219 MGs were high quality items? "Checkmate" M9 magazines? "Cooper" M16 magazines? "Sioux Industries" PASGT helmets? There's a long sordid history of the US government buying crap for the armed forces, basing decisions on which Congressional district or special interest group will benefit rather than on whether or not the item is going to serve the troops well. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:25:04 PM EDT
[#43]
better finish yes quality no.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:31:59 PM EDT
[#44]
As a QA technician with SigArms I am well aware of what it takes to build a quality firearm. Your comment about Armalite building quality into their product doesn't square with the reality of FSBs secured with woefully inadequate fasteners, improperly torqued barrel nuts, and improperly reamed barrels. These are all indicative of half-assed assembly, not to mention an inadequate QA program that allows these fuckups to be released to an unsuspecting public. Building to your own drawings is wonderful, but only if you follow up your assembly with the due diligence in QA that the customer deserves. If your own personal experience has not yet given you the opportunity to observe some of these disturbing trends that are rampant with many AR manufacturers-including Armalite, then perhaps you may want to reevaluate your sample size and relevant experience before attempting to speak with authority on the matter of quality control within the firearms industry. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:39:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I choose FN.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:54:18 PM EDT
[#46]
If only FN sold to us.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:06:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Sorry, but I gotta do this........
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:23:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quite possibly the most intelligent argument I ever saw in debating AR's |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:28:51 PM EDT
[#49]
I got to see my first RRA in action about two weeks ago and after 5 rounds it needs a new extractor and the gunwas brand new. My bud has had about 6 or 7 bushmasters which have always failed hardcore while we were doing or little CQB practice sessions with alot of brass flying while I have managed to keep up my Oly with ten times the rounds through it and replacing no parts. I wouldn't traded my oly for a new bushmaster. My Armalite won't even eat what my Oly will!
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:29:43 PM EDT
[#50]
While I am happy that you are a QC Tech, I think I know a little about QC. Having a Master Degree in Quality gives me a broad background in Quality. Being an ASQ, CQA says I know a little something about evaluating quality systems. Not to mention certified in Design for Six Sigma, Lean MFG and working as an Adjunct Professor of Quality.
Having said that, when were you out at ArmaLite to review their QC system? Are you qualified to review their QC systems? Please explain. If you have access to ArmaLite’s external failure data publish it.
I guarantee that my background with DLA, as a QC Manager, Supplier Development Manager and having completed hundreds of audits of the same amount of manufactures from cast steel to leather and everything in between, I can speak with authority on any subject regarding QC. Besides, how hard can it be? You build guns for crying out loud! Try building an airplane or a car.
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