Guys, a recent remark that 1/12 twist rifles were "obsolete" just rubbed me the wrong way(or maybe just made me feel old!).   Anyway, this trio has been with me for quite some time, although the middle rifle was just recently built out as the "walking varminter" shown.

The "sand dune" kryloned SP1 blends in with the exposed caliche present in dry gulches around my AO for desert walks, and was my first Arfsmith project, running like a clock every outting.  The FA upper is a Colt C7 style from Sarco about 10 years back, large hole w/ case deflector, new M16 barrel and furniture, A2 rear aperture is the only "mod".

The "walking varminter" is built on a RRA A4 and internals, BM lower w/ 3# RRA trigger, 15X Weaver, and a Govt. Profile A2 barrel.

House gun duty for over 2 decades has been handled by this '82 Colt Carbine I bought NIB for $460 back then.  Only mod is the Redi-mag.  Only repair EVER was a new extractor.

All wear 3-prong flash hiders and M16 buttstocks as a visual reminder they shoot that "obsolete" ammo known as Q3131A superbly...

Yeah, gramps got grumpy when some young pup made fun of his "girls".

Paladin

I guess I'd have to know what context the remark was made in, to really judge. Militarily, the 1:12 is pretty obsolete. The AF went so far as to rebarrel Gau-5 with M4 bbls to aid resupply to their troops serving in Army units.

Now for civvies, there's still a lot of life left in 1:12.
C'mon they're perfect for varmint rounds, and some of the cheapest self defense ammo available in any caliber works was designed for it.

I just wish 1:12 bbls were easier to come by, and in greater variety.

You know, the M1 Garand is considered "obsolete", but it has a hell of a lot more knockdown punch that can "reach out and touch" your enemy than the latest AR15/M16 variants, 1/7 twist or not.

Hell, they say the A-10 Warthog is obsolete, but I still sure as hell wouldn't want it shooting at me.

i don't plan to shoot the heavy bullets anytime soon.  unfortuneately, plans have a tendancy to go south sometimes, so i'm happy with a 1:7

Quoted: Hell, they say the A-10 Warthog is obsolete, but I still sure as hell wouldn't want it shooting at me.

That's different, they're only obsolete because they ain't fighters.

I actually prefer the A1 furniture and the 20rd straight mags. But since I wanted an  "updated" rifle, I went with the A2 furniture and sights, A4 upper, but still use the 20rd straight mags.

I for one wish that I could get a 1:12.  I don't shoot anything but 55gr, so I have no need for more twist.

This thread is making me think of those first AR-15 stories - the first ones had a 1/14 rifling twist IIRC, and with the 55gr. ammo, stories of their amazing damage would come back.

I remember reading how they caused huge holes and lost limbs of NVA/VC early on in Vietnam. Considering that you are making a bullet highly unstable at an extremely high velocity, I think these stories have some truth behind them.

I am now thinking that an AR-15 carbine in 1/14 twist would be the ultimate home defense weapon with some Winchester 55gr. stuff.

Quoted: I guess I'd have to know what context the remark was made in, to really judge. Militarily, the 1:12 is pretty obsolete. The AF went so far as to rebarrel Gau-5 with M4 bbls to aid resupply to their troops serving in Army units. Now for civvies, there's still a lot of life left in 1:12. C'mon they're perfect for varmint rounds, and some of the cheapest self defense ammo available in any caliber works was designed for it. I just wish 1:12 bbls were easier to come by, and in greater variety.

I'm the guy who has probably made that comment more than any other...

The context was that 1:12 is obselete in any situation where long range accuracy is desired, or for any military use...

The premise is that (a) the claim that 1/12 is 'better' for ballistics is , and (2) that the fact that it can't handle 62gr or heavier bullets is a severe detriment for someone looking for long-range accuracy...

If you're going to blast tin-cans at 100yds with 55gr .223, or if you're the rare shooter that actually fires a 40gr .223 bullet, then 1:12 is fine...

Otherwise, it's obselete...

There is nothing useful that 1:12 can do which 1:7 cannot. Unless you want to use those 50-40gr super-light varmint bullets, 1:7 will be a better choice for all 'military' bullet weights, and anything heavier (such as 77gr OTM).

Most of the 'cheap' plinking ammo I've seen has been 62gr Wolf, and I *do* use 75gr match ammo... So I'm glad I don't have 1:12, and wish I didn't have 1:9.

We're in agreement, just keep in mind that M193 spec ammo was used in 1:12 bbls, and it is the cheapest good defensive ammo available.
Yes, 77gr is better, but not cheaper.

It's the only thing I shoot.



screw that red X!

A1

I plan on shooting nothing but 193 but I could not find a 20 inch 1:12 barrel.  I went with a 1:9 just for the fact that it was A: right in front of me, and B: I can shoot anything with it now.  

The old 1:14 barrels were shooting 45 grain bullets.

they're only obsolete because they ain't fighters.

and thats because that POFS Merrill McPeak didnt like them.  That bastard did more damage to the Air Force when he was ruining (not a mistake) the show than any thing i can think of.  GD does it make me mad to be reminded of him.  i cant speak badly enough about him.  id like to go to his funeral one day and go up to the casket and spit on his corpse.  but nah, im not bitter....

david
United States Air Force
1985-1993

The 1 in 12's make for nice .22 conversions or if 55grains (M193) is your load of choice.