User Panel
Posted: 10/11/2004 7:36:42 AM EDT
OK, follow me here.
I bought a 16" M4 barreled LMT upper because I wanted to be able to remove the front sight to install a rail if I wanted one. This barrel plus the A2 FS makes it awefully long (both practically and aesthetically). Now I've come to like the Troy MRF series of rails, so taking the FS and FSB off aren't a big deal to me. But, I'm also thinking of going with the 9" rail to have a little more real estate and to get more coverage of the barrel. If I do this with a standard M4 barrel I'll need a flip up rail mount front and I'll have to shave the front sight. At which point being able to remove the FSB won't matter again because the rail can be installed over it. Giffman is selling 1:7 midlength barrels (which I'm guessing will weigh about what an M4 weighs), so I could use that and keep the standard FSB. I wouldn't be able to shorten it though unless I go back to the MRF. Or I suppose I could cut it to 14.5", still shave the front and go to the flipup, which would allow me to install and remove whatever rail I want. Either way, I'd love to have a 14.5" barrel with the Gemtech Bilock permanently attached, but I still want to be able to get the damn rail on and off if I want to. something tells me it's kind of silly to go through all of the SBR paperwork (not to mention the $200) just to be able to do this. Anybody have a pic of a 14.5" barrel with permanent FS and a 9" rail? I don't care if it's a midlength gas system with a standard FSB, or if you've shaved the FSB and put on a flipup front. In fact I'd like to see both. Shit, this post was supposed to help me work through all this nonsense. |
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So why dont you use the 14.5" barrel with Bilock and use the extneded 7" rail from Troy? THen you can have rails everywhere except the FSB. You will be 9" on the bottom and sides, can remove the rail and have the shortest and lightest overall packa not to metion it will be more rugged and reliable than the 9" with flip up front sight.
My question is this... why do you need more rail space than the regular 7" provides? There is room for a light, vertical fore grip, laser and whatever else you might want. What exactly will you use the extra rail space for? I have never understood the need for rails longer than the standard carbine length. To me its just dead weight. |
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I've thought of that, but truthfully I just hate the way those rails look. I know it's a silly reason, but it's my rifle and I can have whatever reason I want.
A couple of reasons. One is that when shooting from prone I like to have my left hand a little further forward if I'm using it to support the rifle. I have long arms and it's what works for me. The other is that I like to have more of the hot-ass barrel coverec when transitioning to a sidearm and letting that barrel slap against my leg. |
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That last one is the best reason yet. My 14.5" M4/Bilock/MRE came to be partly because of the burn scar I have on my left thigh from a transition drill with a SMOKING hot weapon. |
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Funny how you have to learn the hardway to understand that huh? I have a nice mark on my leg from the comp on my FAL slinging into me. |
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I think I get what you're saying. You want a 16" barrel with a carbine gas system and mid-length handguards covering the entire gas system (Recce style).
As long as you can get your gas block underneath your handguards, you're set. If you don't want to dremel your existing fixed front sight, check this out. YHM Low Profile Gas Block After that you can just mount your mid-length rail and the low-height flip up sight on top of the rail. Hopefully that answers your question. |
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That picture is more or less what I'm imagining, only I'd like to have the 14.5" barrel because it's less exposed hot metal, and it's a more compact package. While intellectually I know that the added 1.5" of barrel length will be a good thing, I also have to wonder just how often I'll need to take advantage of that added velocity while hunting carboard and steel. |
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Another reason to leave it at 16" is because you already have it. Why mess with cutting it or buying a new barrel? I guess the way I see it, it's simpler to keep it 16". Though if a 14.5" barrel is what you want then go for it! It is your carbine and you wanting it a certain way is good enough reason for me... |
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Thanks guys, I'm trying to work through the logic on this without dumping too many thousands of dollars.
I guess I'm kind of leaning towards the 14.5" barrel with the shaved FSB and the flipup front. Unfortunately that's going to be even more expensive, because I'm going to have to buy an extra $120 flipup front sight. I'll also have to get rid of the upper I have now, but that may not be a bad thing. I'm actually not fond of the T-numbers on the upper now that I have it, nor do I like the LMT logo on the side. The other issue with the barrel length is that if I add the bilock it's even longer than the A2 FS. I already don't like the overall length now, let alone another 1/2" more. Hopefully, I'll be able to get rid of this upper and the postban upper I have and wind up with enough total cash to build what I want. Gee, isn't this fun? |
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Well, now I've done a little more digging, and even with a shaved front sight base I'll still need to remove it to install most of the floated front rails that screw on.
So, I guess I'm back to the MRF. Not a bit deal really, I'll just buy the MRF-MX and install it right over the shaved FSB. |
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But I still need a 14.5" barrel Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to buy another LMT to get it |
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You don't have to buy another complete upper. C4iGrant sells LMT 14.5" and 16" barrels w/FSB seperately. gandrtactical.com/lmt_files/lmtm4.htm |
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Norm,
Assuming you haven't fired the upper yet, can't you just ask the dealer you got from to exchange it with 14.5" model? |
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out of stock :( |
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I'm not sure, possibly. I'll have to call them & check. I have to make sure they can ship to Gemtech for the bilock though so I'm not holding onto a 14.5" barrel. |
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CMMG, Colt. |
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Hmm, CMMG seems promising. 14.5" M4 barrel for $225, chrome lined, 4150, 1:7 Stick that with a Bravocompany unmarked M4 upper for $90 and I'd have me a complete upper for $315 as opposed to $415 for the LMT. No T-markings, no silly looking LMT logo..... I would prefer that a 'smith assemble the whole thing though. I wonder how much that would cost me.... |
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Hell, just take it over to new_arguy's place and give hime a few beers in payment... You could probably use his tools and do it yourself and make a learning experience out of it too. |
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It would probably cost me over $100 in gas these days just to get there and back. |
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Doh! I thought you guys lived in the same town, nevermind... How about just getting a 14.5" barreled upper from CMMG? |
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I see a promising ono on their site. I wonder how much they'll customize, or if they'll attach the bilock for me..... So many options! The only good/bad news is that the MRF-MX doesn't appear to be available right now, thereby limiting my spending options. |
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If I can ever get hiperform to answer their email, you're going to love my other project I dropped Adco a post in their forum 'cause I know they stock alot of Troy gear. I might have to do the same with CMMG. Is a 12" DD really lighter than a 10" MRF? |
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Yes, the 12" DD is lighter than the MRF-MX. The MRF-CX is about 17.5oz and it has a lot less metal than the MRF-MX. The the 12" DD rail weighs in at 13.1oz! This info is from the chart rail that Eric from ADCO made, it's posted on the "FAQ: The Big Thread On FF & Railed Forends" on the Uppers, Lowers, Barrels forum. All the extra weight is the only thing I don't like about the MRF's... So, what's this other project... |
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Damnit man, why do you have to confuse the matter so much!!!
ETA The good news is I can get the 12" DD for $275, which is only $5 more than the Troy. |
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Barreling an upper is really not difficult, but you will need a receiver vice and a barrel wrench, which will add about $50 (but you'll have them for future builds!). On the other hand, CMMG are good guys and I'd be quite surprised if they could not accomodate your requests.
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If I'm going to go through all of that.... What's the weight on the 12" Larue? |
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It's not listed on the ADCO's chart, though I think someone mentioned in some other thread which I can't recall... IIRC, it was tiny bit heavier than the DD because the LaRue has a steel barrel nut while the DD has an aluminum one. I'll do some looking and see if I find the weight... |
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