I just saw this - I hope this hasn't been beatin' to death...

Here is the record. It speaks for itself:

*Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. From
1929 to 1953,  20 million political dissidents, unable
to defend themselves, were  rounded up and
exterminated.

*Turkey established gun control in 1911. From 1915 to
1917  1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

*China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to
1976 20 million Anti-Communists, Christians, political
dissidents and pro-reform groups, unable to defend
themselves, were
rounded up and exterminated.

*Germany established gun control in 1938. From 1939 to
1945 13 million Jews, Gypsies, mentally ill people and
other "mongrelized peoples," unable to defend
themselves, were
rounded up and exterminated.

*Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964
to 1981 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

*Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to
1979 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,
were rounded up and exterminated.

*Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975
to 1977 1 million "educated people," unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and executed.

*Today .... NOW ....
The United States IS establishing gun control.

Sure 'nuff, starting with the bullets FIRST!

Mike

Never...they can take my gun out of my cold dead fingers.

What are guns?

very simple answer


NO

agntsa

Will I "let them take my guns"?

Of course not.

The real question is....  

Which weapon is best to defend against the gungrabbers: M16 or AK47?

...an what if the gungrabbers are zombies?

Huh?
What if?

yeah, the bastards can have all my guns right after they beat me to death w/ those same guns because they'll all have been emptied in self defense, and defense of my right to own them.

Nope.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen those genocidal statistics. Nobody is coming for your guns dude and here's why.

The countries you mentioned never had anything like MSNBC 24 hour news coverage that would villify gungrabbers going door to door armed to take guns away. Most people believe it or not own guns in America, despite what you see on TV.

Secondly, this is America, armed to the hilt. Who is going to come get them? The Marines? Doubtful. Local cops? They'd get slaughtered. They all strut around now in 42 inch waist bands like they'd kick ass and take names but one instance of a well trained rifleman eliminating a team of 12 of them and walking away unharmed would change their notions fast.

If this type of scenario ever happened, firstly military brass are all to familiar with the effects of guerrila warfare against a mechanized army, if you doubt that theory, just turn on your TV and get some Iraq coverage or.....read a little about the first American Revolution, or the second American Revolution where the Fed marched troops into the south burning, raping and castrating in the name of "preserving the union" you don't think the lessons of the Civil War still hold true with the military? Think again. Truth be told, the South had the war won, investigate it thouroughly, the Union was whipped. The invasion of PA by Lee, which again, was just about won, what was the determing factor in the war of the states was a simple fence and some ill-fated circumstances in which the South had some serious balls and attacked the Union Army, outnumbered heavily to end the war. Remember, just like now, the Democrats were willing to surrender and strike a deal with the South. It was Sherman's capture of Atlanta and Eastern GA that helped Lincoln win re-election in a land slide victory.

Now, that was a war raged with muskets and swords. The civil war would be a joke in terms of bloodshed that this third American Revolution would be. This is why anti's are widdling us away piece by piece. They are well aware of the American tradition of taking up arms against government tyranny and they know all too well that a major gun confiscation theme would result in the bloodiest most horrific civil war mankind has ever seen. The UN would be dispatched to keep the peace which would result in a split in military forces, some of the military would be on our side. Namingly, the Marine Corps.

The only thing that will happen in this country is a slow deffermation of gun rights, there won't be a gun roundup, Liberals simply don't have the hair.

All my guns are airsoft.

Quoted: All my guns are airsoft.

Guns?  I don't have any guns.  I had to sell them all to pay for medical care for this abcess on my left buttock.  Wanna have a look?

Quoted: I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen those genocidal statistics. Nobody is coming for your guns dude and here's why. The countries you mentioned never had anything like MSNBC 24 hour news coverage that would villify gungrabbers going door to door armed to take guns away. Most people believe it or not own guns in America, despite what you see on TV. Secondly, this is America, armed to the hilt. Who is going to come get them? The Marines? Doubtful. Local cops? They'd get slaughtered. They all strut around now in 42 inch waist bands like they'd kick ass and take names but one instance of a well trained rifleman eliminating a team of 12 of them and walking away unharmed would change their notions fast. If this type of scenario ever happened, firstly military brass are all to familiar with the effects of guerrila warfare against a mechanized army, if you doubt that theory, just turn on your TV and get some Iraq coverage or.....read a little about the first American Revolution, or the second American Revolution where the Fed marched troops into the south burning, raping and castrating in the name of "preserving the union" you don't think the lessons of the Civil War still hold true with the military? Think again. Truth be told, the South had the war won, investigate it thouroughly, the Union was whipped. The invasion of PA by Lee, which again, was just about won, what was the determing factor in the war of the states was a simple fence and some ill-fated circumstances in which the South had some serious balls and attacked the Union Army, outnumbered heavily to end the war. Remember, just like now, the Democrats were willing to surrender and strike a deal with the South. It was Sherman's capture of Atlanta and Eastern GA that helped Lincoln win re-election in a land slide victory. Now, that was a war raged with muskets and swords. The civil war would be a joke in terms of bloodshed that this third American Revolution would be. This is why anti's are widdling us away piece by piece. They are well aware of the American tradition of taking up arms against government tyranny and they know all too well that a major gun confiscation theme would result in the bloodiest most horrific civil war mankind has ever seen. The UN would be dispatched to keep the peace which would result in a split in military forces, some of the military would be on our side. Namingly, the Marine Corps. The only thing that will happen in this country is a slow deffermation of gun rights, there won't be a gun roundup, Liberals simply don't have the hair.

I don't believe enough people like this exist in America, today to have any real effect.

Hate to be a party pooper, but as an historian, I must point out that some of those statitistics are very far off and overexagerated. However, the point still remains. Gun control is no good except for governemnt, and BAD governemnt at that.

IBTL - this should be in the General Discussion forum.....

If a fair price is offered...   anything is possible.

absolutely, I trust big government

Guns? What guns? I don't have any guns...although I did get to play with a 105mm howitzer at Fort Benning once...

I lost all my guns in a boating accident off the coast

Quoted: What guns?  I got hard up and sold mine. Tj

Yeah, me too.  This economy just has me down.  How can a man earn a decent working wage?  If only we got Comrade Kerry into power, he could get me more money, after all this is all Bush's fault, right?  

They wouldn't have to take your guns...  All they have to do is outlaw civilian sales of guns and ammunition, the second amendmend would be meaningless in less than 50 years.

And that is why the focus of the antigunners is to break the industry, not going to your house.

You think any american government would martirize its own people by going door to door and comitting the hughe political suicide which that entails? Too hard and totally unnecessary. The antigunners agenda is long term and of a permanent nature: kill the industry and guns will dissapear by attrition within a couple of generations.

Shifting our focus from loosing our little collections to really getting involved to protect the 2nd would be less juvenile than mentally masturbating with totally stupid scenarios of SWAT going from door to door and sniping cops from the balcony.

no.  We need a POLL!

I'm with MADM16A1 on this'n   ^^^^^^^^^^^^ . This topic does need to be discussed from time to time . They do intend to finesse us out of the ability to defend ourselves . A Compliant public generates more TAX revenue and is less likely to complain . A healthy dose of fear is applied where control is desired ............ J.C.

Quoted: Sure 'nuff, starting with the bullets FIRST! Mike

Slightly used though......

Quoted: Quoted: All my guns are airsoft. hr Guns?  I don't have any guns.  I had to sell them all to pay for medical care for this abcess on my left buttock.  Wanna have a look?hock.gif

I would,but John Asscrofts head is in the way;on another point,they would outlaw the ammo first.No ammo,no shootee shootee.

If I had any I wouldn't let them be taken.  I guess they can have all my airsoft toys if they really want them.

Quoted: yeah, the bastards can have all my guns right after they beat me to death w/ those same guns because they'll all have been emptied in self defense,

Quoted: on another point,they would outlaw the ammo first.No ammo,no shootee shootee.

THAT's why you NEED a bayonet lug!!  I've been trying to TELL you, but don't listen to me...  

I have bayonet lugs on my 590;after the ban expires other candidates will be modified.

If the battle is lost in the halls of Congress, how can you expect to win the war on your front porch?  Vote.

Quoted: Hate to be a party pooper, but as an historian, I must point out that some of those statitistics are very far off and overexagerated. However, the point still remains. Gun control is no good except for governemnt, and BAD governemnt at that.

Mind elaborating on exactly what is off and/or over exagerated? You can believe what you were taught in the government camps, or you can do your own research. I don't want to start an argument, but where exactly where was I off at all?

Quoted: I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen those genocidal statistics. Nobody is coming for your guns dude and here's why. The countries you mentioned never had anything like MSNBC 24 hour news coverage that would villify gungrabbers going door to door armed to take guns away. Most people believe it or not own guns in America, despite what you see on TV. Secondly, this is America, armed to the hilt. Who is going to come get them? The Marines? Doubtful. Local cops? They'd get slaughtered. They all strut around now in 42 inch waist bands like they'd kick ass and take names but one instance of a well trained rifleman eliminating a team of 12 of them and walking away unharmed would change their notions fast. If this type of scenario ever happened, firstly military brass are all to familiar with the effects of guerrila warfare against a mechanized army, if you doubt that theory, just turn on your TV and get some Iraq coverage or.....read a little about the first American Revolution, or the second American Revolution where the Fed marched troops into the south burning, raping and castrating in the name of "preserving the union" you don't think the lessons of the Civil War still hold true with the military? Think again. Truth be told, the South had the war won, investigate it thouroughly, the Union was whipped. The invasion of PA by Lee, which again, was just about won, what was the determing factor in the war of the states was a simple fence and some ill-fated circumstances in which the South had some serious balls and attacked the Union Army, outnumbered heavily to end the war. Remember, just like now, the Democrats were willing to surrender and strike a deal with the South. It was Sherman's capture of Atlanta and Eastern GA that helped Lincoln win re-election in a land slide victory. Now, that was a war raged with muskets and swords. The civil war would be a joke in terms of bloodshed that this third American Revolution would be. This is why anti's are widdling us away piece by piece. They are well aware of the American tradition of taking up arms against government tyranny and they know all too well that a major gun confiscation theme would result in the bloodiest most horrific civil war mankind has ever seen. The UN would be dispatched to keep the peace which would result in a split in military forces, some of the military would be on our side. Namingly, the Marine Corps. The only thing that will happen in this country is a slow deffermation of gun rights, there won't be a gun roundup, Liberals simply don't have the hair.

Been to Waco?

Quoted: Hate to be a party pooper, but as an historian, I must point out that some of those statitistics are very far off and overexagerated. However, the point still remains. Gun control is no good except for governemnt, and BAD governemnt at that.

Damn, maybe you meant the original stats. Sorry, I have been ready very knee jerk lately. I need a glass of warm milk and a nap.

Quoted: Quoted: I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen those genocidal statistics. Nobody is coming for your guns dude and here's why. The countries you mentioned never had anything like MSNBC 24 hour news coverage that would villify gungrabbers going door to door armed to take guns away. Most people believe it or not own guns in America, despite what you see on TV. Secondly, this is America, armed to the hilt. Who is going to come get them? The Marines? Doubtful. Local cops? They'd get slaughtered. They all strut around now in 42 inch waist bands like they'd kick ass and take names but one instance of a well trained rifleman eliminating a team of 12 of them and walking away unharmed would change their notions fast. If this type of scenario ever happened, firstly military brass are all to familiar with the effects of guerrila warfare against a mechanized army, if you doubt that theory, just turn on your TV and get some Iraq coverage or.....read a little about the first American Revolution, or the second American Revolution where the Fed marched troops into the south burning, raping and castrating in the name of "preserving the union" you don't think the lessons of the Civil War still hold true with the military? Think again. Truth be told, the South had the war won, investigate it thouroughly, the Union was whipped. The invasion of PA by Lee, which again, was just about won, what was the determing factor in the war of the states was a simple fence and some ill-fated circumstances in which the South had some serious balls and attacked the Union Army, outnumbered heavily to end the war. Remember, just like now, the Democrats were willing to surrender and strike a deal with the South. It was Sherman's capture of Atlanta and Eastern GA that helped Lincoln win re-election in a land slide victory. Now, that was a war raged with muskets and swords. The civil war would be a joke in terms of bloodshed that this third American Revolution would be. This is why anti's are widdling us away piece by piece. They are well aware of the American tradition of taking up arms against government tyranny and they know all too well that a major gun confiscation theme would result in the bloodiest most horrific civil war mankind has ever seen. The UN would be dispatched to keep the peace which would result in a split in military forces, some of the military would be on our side. Namingly, the Marine Corps. The only thing that will happen in this country is a slow deffermation of gun rights, there won't be a gun roundup, Liberals simply don't have the hair. I don't believe enough people like this exist in America, today to have any real effect.

I believe and I am not certain of the number, that approximately 15% of the original colonialists actually participated in the American Revolution.

Did the gun grabbers actually come door to door in those countries at those times?  Somehow I don't recall any big stories about people fighting back.  I know everyone here is different, but why would the common people in the US resist any more than people elsewhere?  The minority who wouldn't give up their guns would just be exterminated... think Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Quoted: Quoted: I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen those genocidal statistics. Nobody is coming for your guns dude and here's why. The countries you mentioned never had anything like MSNBC 24 hour news coverage that would villify gungrabbers going door to door armed to take guns away. Most people believe it or not own guns in America, despite what you see on TV. Secondly, this is America, armed to the hilt. Who is going to come get them? The Marines? Doubtful. Local cops? They'd get slaughtered. They all strut around now in 42 inch waist bands like they'd kick ass and take names but one instance of a well trained rifleman eliminating a team of 12 of them and walking away unharmed would change their notions fast. If this type of scenario ever happened, firstly military brass are all to familiar with the effects of guerrila warfare against a mechanized army, if you doubt that theory, just turn on your TV and get some Iraq coverage or.....read a little about the first American Revolution, or the second American Revolution where the Fed marched troops into the south burning, raping and castrating in the name of "preserving the union" you don't think the lessons of the Civil War still hold true with the military? Think again. Truth be told, the South had the war won, investigate it thouroughly, the Union was whipped. The invasion of PA by Lee, which again, was just about won, what was the determing factor in the war of the states was a simple fence and some ill-fated circumstances in which the South had some serious balls and attacked the Union Army, outnumbered heavily to end the war. Remember, just like now, the Democrats were willing to surrender and strike a deal with the South. It was Sherman's capture of Atlanta and Eastern GA that helped Lincoln win re-election in a land slide victory. Now, that was a war raged with muskets and swords. The civil war would be a joke in terms of bloodshed that this third American Revolution would be. This is why anti's are widdling us away piece by piece. They are well aware of the American tradition of taking up arms against government tyranny and they know all too well that a major gun confiscation theme would result in the bloodiest most horrific civil war mankind has ever seen. The UN would be dispatched to keep the peace which would result in a split in military forces, some of the military would be on our side. Namingly, the Marine Corps. The only thing that will happen in this country is a slow deffermation of gun rights, there won't be a gun roundup, Liberals simply don't have the hair. Been to Waco?

I have been there actually, not much there. The Davidians utterly destroyed the first wave of ATF. It took Janet Reno to torch them to death to end it. I guess you are right but it would be hard to portray everyday Americans like Davidians.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen those genocidal statistics. Nobody is coming for your guns dude and here's why. The countries you mentioned never had anything like MSNBC 24 hour news coverage that would villify gungrabbers going door to door armed to take guns away. Most people believe it or not own guns in America, despite what you see on TV. Secondly, this is America, armed to the hilt. Who is going to come get them? The Marines? Doubtful. Local cops? They'd get slaughtered. They all strut around now in 42 inch waist bands like they'd kick ass and take names but one instance of a well trained rifleman eliminating a team of 12 of them and walking away unharmed would change their notions fast. If this type of scenario ever happened, firstly military brass are all to familiar with the effects of guerrila warfare against a mechanized army, if you doubt that theory, just turn on your TV and get some Iraq coverage or.....read a little about the first American Revolution, or the second American Revolution where the Fed marched troops into the south burning, raping and castrating in the name of "preserving the union" you don't think the lessons of the Civil War still hold true with the military? Think again. Truth be told, the South had the war won, investigate it thouroughly, the Union was whipped. The invasion of PA by Lee, which again, was just about won, what was the determing factor in the war of the states was a simple fence and some ill-fated circumstances in which the South had some serious balls and attacked the Union Army, outnumbered heavily to end the war. Remember, just like now, the Democrats were willing to surrender and strike a deal with the South. It was Sherman's capture of Atlanta and Eastern GA that helped Lincoln win re-election in a land slide victory. Now, that was a war raged with muskets and swords. The civil war would be a joke in terms of bloodshed that this third American Revolution would be. This is why anti's are widdling us away piece by piece. They are well aware of the American tradition of taking up arms against government tyranny and they know all too well that a major gun confiscation theme would result in the bloodiest most horrific civil war mankind has ever seen. The UN would be dispatched to keep the peace which would result in a split in military forces, some of the military would be on our side. Namingly, the Marine Corps. The only thing that will happen in this country is a slow deffermation of gun rights, there won't be a gun roundup, Liberals simply don't have the hair. Been to Waco?hr I have been there actually, not much there. The Davidians utterly destroyed the first wave of ATF. It took Janet Reno to torch them to death to end it. I guess you are right but it would be hard to portray everyday Americans like Davidians.

Not for MSNBC.  I know what you are trying to say. I do not think the Gov't wouldn't exterminate anyone like past countries. However, the Gov't would still change for the worst. Otherwise the Founding Fathers wouldn't have bothered with the 2nd. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

During the Clinton administration, as many as 100 detention camps were built in the US with the help of foreign troops experienced in the art.

I don't know about the exact numbers, but disarming the populous is one of the last steps before the mass arrests begin. Simply refusing to turn in your weapons is the beginning of the process, they come at night and you are taken away.

I believe in my heart and soul that Kerry would do this if the Lefties convinced him it's the best thing (for them) to do.

The winds of change are unusually strong this year, and have blown away the smoke and fog. The Democrats want the UN stamp of approval on the whole damn United States. They are willing to trade our sovereignty to win the popularity contest.

Point very well taken.

Quoted: During the Clinton administration, as many as 100 detention camps were built in the US with the help of foreign troops experienced in the art. I don't know about the exact numbers, but disarming the populous is one of the last steps before the mass arrests begin. Simply refusing to turn in your weapons is the beginning of the process, they come at night and you are taken away. I believe in my heart and soul that Kerry would do this if the Lefties convinced him it's the best thing (for them) to do. The winds of change are unusually strong this year, and have blown away the smoke and fog. The Democrats want the UN stamp of approval on the whole damn United States. They are willing to trade our sovereignty to win the popularity contest.

All true, but the country is divided and the dems don't operate in a vacuum.  Executive order privelidges in John Kerry's hands should make any true American lose sleep.

It all depends on where the military falls.  If the military decides to follow any president in the disarming of America everyone is screwed.  However, my impression is that the military is filled with true Americans that DO support our Constitution and wouldn't turn their backs on all of us.

Most likely gun grab scenario is a major attack (with a Democrap in the White House) followed by martial law.  The military would be ordered to take the guns and would slpinter.  The real fight would be between the true Americans in uniform and the zipper heads that would follow orders.  I pray the true Americans in uniform win and eliminate all enimies to the Republic that are in any .gov position.

Until the fight within the military is resolved I would be so far from civilization no one would be around to ask me if I'd left armed.

I'm new here to this forum and I totally agree.... John Kerry is the Zipper Head and if he gets in look out ! The thing to do now is vote ! and vote Republican. Most of the lefties are in the big cities,
I think that most of the country is just asleep right now and they better wake up and smell what the lefties are pushin !

Negative.

well, it's simple.  When talk of banning ammo reaches the public, people will stock up.  Then  the government will have to get through the ammo to get the guns.

Let them try and take my AR, I'll be waiting.hippie.gif

Quoted: During the Clinton administration, as many as 100 detention camps were built in the US with the help of foreign troops experienced in the art.

WTF?  Detention Camps?  Please post links...I gotta see this!

Forward this post to John F'ing Skerry.

Quoted: Quoted: During the Clinton administration, as many as 100 detention camps were built in the US with the help of foreign troops experienced in the art. WTF?  Detention Camps?  Please post links...I gotta see this!

I checked this out after hearing some militia types telling about them from a booth at a gun show.  Here is a page I found.
www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html

Quoted: well, it's simple.  When talk of banning ammo reaches the public, people will stock up.  Then  the government will have to get through the ammo to get the guns. Let them try and take my AR, I'll be waiting.

What would the public do then? Quit their jobs and barricade themselves until they come for their weapons? How long would most subsist like that?  How many would be willing to put their families in that position? I would adventure to say just a few.

Not that I believe it will happen that way, but if it did, the gov would be patient and confiscate your stuff when you're at work, sleeping, or having beers with your friends.  Anyway, who could take out a determined and trained tactical team with a AR15 and a pile of ammo?  You and your family would die defending the 2nd.

I don't think for a second they would come for your guns door to door, but if they did, that's how it would go down.  My point is that it might be more productive to do what we can to support organizations dedicated to protecting our gun rights in any way we can , than talking about piling up the ammo and getting ready to pop some spooks.

+1 Babe...IBTL

Quoted: During the Clinton administration, as many as 100 detention camps were built in the US with the help of foreign troops experienced in the art.

If you've heard of any in Texas (reasonably close to me) let me know - I'll check it out.

EDIT:

www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1062

TEXAS Austin - Robert Mueller Municipal airport has detenion areas inside hangars. Bastrop - Prison and military vehicle motor pool. Eden - 1500 bed privately run federal center. Currently holds illegal aliens. Ft. Hood (Killeen) - Newly built concentration camp, with towers, barbed wire etc., just like the one featured in the movie Amerika. Mock city for NWO shock- force training. Some footage of this area was used in "Waco: A New Revelation" Reese AFB (Lubbock) - FEMA designated detention facility. Sheppard AFB - in Wichita Falls just south of Ft. Sill, OK. FEMA designated detention facility. North Dallas - near Carrolton - water treatment plant, close to interstate and railroad. Mexia - East of Waco 33mi.; WWII German facility may be renovated. Amarillo - FEMA designated detention facility Ft. Bliss (El Paso) - Extensive renovation of buildings and from what patriots have been able to see, many of these buildings that are being renovated are being surrounded by razor wire. Beaumont / Port Arthur area - hundreds of acres of federal camps already built on large-scale detention camp design, complete with the double rows of chain link fencing with razor type concertina wire on top of each row. Some (but not all) of these facilities are currently being used for low-risk state prisoners who require a minimum of supervision. Ft. Worth - Federal prison under construction on the site of Carswell AFB.

I'll bet they're gonna be used when the Russians errr...Chinese uhhhh...Canadiens mmm...Mexicans invade us.

I  think the next terrorists attack,Bush will  remain in office.(pretty much can count on such attack before election)  I  have also read many headlines,based on the next terrorists attack,  that "maybe" China will also attacked us. We have  had such report  of large groups of ragg heads crossing our borders daily.

I  dont know,but something  is no  doubt in the makings.

I have also  heard  about these Fema camps set up.

To answer this  post,hell no, I'll go out fighting with like minded americans.


TG

NOT ON THEIR LIFE