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Posted: 5/6/2004 1:32:21 PM EDT
[#1]
FN and Colt are under contract for M16's and RRA is under contract for the DEA
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Posted: 5/6/2004 2:49:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Colt, RRA and SIG, got approval to sell to the DEA for a specific amount of money. Colt are the ones that got a purchase oder and are delivering.
 Jack |
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Posted: 5/6/2004 2:49:36 PM EDT
[#3]
From what I hear, just what I hear, Colt provides M4s, FN provideds M-16s and RRA provides ARs to the DEA and FBI.
 Just a guess, Colt, RRA and Sig got DEA/FBI contracts but just guessing Colt provides the 9mm SMG, Sig pistols and RRA Ars |
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Posted: 5/6/2004 5:15:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Colt has sole rights to produce the M4, and any M4 varient, for the military until 2010. Colt also is producing M16A4s.
FN is the primary contractor for M16s, which are nearly all M16A4s today. FN also manufactures many other guns for the military, including the M240 GPMG and the M249 SAW. The only other civilian manufacturer who has ever supplied *military* AR-based rifles is Bushmaster, and that was a one-time contract just prior to Gulf War I. The whole RRA thing is totally off-base. DEA is not the military, and they don't do military-type acceptance testing. Neither does FBI or any other agency, so I don't see how they are of any relevance to this thread. And, as Jack has pointed out, although RRA was accepted to be a potential supplier of rifles to the DEA, and have *implied* that they are in fact supplying the DEA, the DEA has only placed orders with Colt at this time. Aside from whatever T&E guns DEA bought from RRA, they have not bought any RRA rifles. -Troy |
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Posted: 5/6/2004 5:40:24 PM EDT
[#5]
He asked about Gov't contracts not just military... Here is the question again "Can anyone tell me what companies are currently under Govt contract to build m16s/ARs? Documentation?"
Does jack have proof of that? Do you? I only know what I read and according to SWAT magazine RRA has a contract with the DEA and FBI to supply 3400-3500 (not 100% sure of the exact number but it was 3400 someodd) rifles per year for the next 5 years. The artical also said the DEA would be recieving the first rifles. I am going to lean more toward beleiving what SWAT printed than the rumors here on this site. Since RRA sent SWAT a rifle to test, provided them with all the info on the Gov't testing that was done and details of the contract, I'm going with that story. It has been said that Colt and Sig also got awarded contracts. Does Sig make ARs? The DEA uses the Colt 9mm SMG correct? They also use Sig pistols correct? Do ya think maybe Colt has a contract for the SMG, Sig for thier pistols and RRA for ARs? Troy if you or Jack have some proof post it for us  |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 5:03:42 AM EDT
[#6]
I have been reading a bunch of stuff about LMT building rifles or at least parts for the military. Anyone have any input on that?
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Posted: 5/7/2004 5:24:10 AM EDT
[#7]
That is a NEGATIVE Ghost Rider! I have seen the purchase orders from the Govt. They have actually bought VERY FEW Colt's.... C4 |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 5:43:09 AM EDT
[#8]
If you don't mind me asking, "If Colt has supplied very few, then who are the other guys the Gov is buying from?"
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:02:33 AM EDT
[#9]
In my statement, I was talking about the DEA contract only (not military)...
C4 |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:10:55 AM EDT
[#10]
No because the Contract is for .223 Carbines - not ARs not Pistols, not 9mm SMGs. Check it out: Govt Wide Contracts
If they don't then I just posted the proof from the Department of Justice's website dealing with contracts. (My thanks to Scott J who found this link orginally). |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:25:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Oh, since you say you "SAW" the COLT purchase oder, what was the QTY???????????? Jack |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:26:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Due to my work with the LULA loader I have been on quite a few military bases, talked to procurement people and shot with the military.
As to proof what do you mean proof? The Gov't does not just hand out copies of their purchase orders for people to look and and post on the Internet. But I can tell you what I have been told and seen with my own eyes. Military, all branches. M16A2 FN and Colt M4 Colt only LMT Parts Beretta M9 Pistols Sig 226's with the Seals, maybe other spec ops Colt Custom 1911's mainly with D boys maybe other spec ops HK SOCOM .45 Pistol LMT M203 Grenade Launchers, long and short version Colt M203 Grenade Launchers, standard The military suppressor market is definately dominated by Knights Armament with Ops Inc providing limited amounts (by gov't standards) to spec ops. Denny |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:33:05 AM EDT
[#13]
SWAT magazine was right in reporting that RRA was awarded a contract but you need to keep in mind, in case you don't deal with the gubberment, that a contract does not equate to an automatic purchase order. I could take months for the funding to come through for the RRA rifles or there could be other reasons. That does not mean the DEA will not receive RRA it just means they haven't yet (at least not in any great quantities). Just keep in mind that a contract is only the first step in the process. Also, being on the contract list doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Two of my buddies are on various contract list but they have no business with the gov't at this time. They just like to stay on the list because it's hard to get back on once you're off. |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:35:48 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm sorry but what does that site you posted prove? The only thing it proves to me is that there are 4 companies that have active contracts to supply .223 carbines - Sig Arms, Colt, RRA and Sti-Co Industries (BTW - who the heck is Sti-Co?) Judging by the contract numbers and expiration date, they were probably all awarded at the same time. Troy and Jack stated that while other companies may have a contract, the government has only been buying Colt. It is that statement that we would like them to prove. |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:41:40 AM EDT
[#15]
AGAIN! You say Colt didn't sell many to the DEA, and you saw the Purchase order. Well have many was a few???????? Jack |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:45:12 AM EDT
[#16]
I have never seen the Colt Purchase order, but was referring to the RRA purchase order.... C4 |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:46:57 AM EDT
[#17]
I didn't say that. |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:50:40 AM EDT
[#18]
It only proves that those companys are on the contract list
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Posted: 5/7/2004 7:00:11 AM EDT
[#19]
It proves that there were 3 companies that Jack Mentioned had .223 carbine contracts with the DEA. Not for Pistols (sig) nor for SMGs (Colt) as a previous posted had theorized. |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 7:09:33 AM EDT
[#20]
There is your your post. YOU SAY and I quote from your words above-" I HAVE SEEN THE PURCHASE ORDERS FROM THE GOVT. THEY ACTUALLY BOUGHT VERY FEW COLT'S" Now, why do you say you didn't say it, and why don't you answer the quetion of how many was a few?  Jack |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 7:17:04 AM EDT
[#21]
In response to the GOVT WIDE CONTRACTS link, has anyone called this woman listed as a contact on the list??????
Connie Jones (202)307-7804 ----------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 7:20:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Jack, I was referring to your comment about that RRA was not delivering AR's to the DEA contract. So if you read my comment and place it against your statement that Colt is the only one filling orders then it will make sense to you. To make things as clear as can be, I have actually SEEN the purchase orders to RRA for AR's. I have been told from a very reliable source that Colt is NOT getting any orders. Since RRA is sending the DEA large numbers of AR's that would lead me to believe that what I was told about Colt not getting any purchase orders to be correct!
C4 |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 8:07:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Thats plenty good for me. No one knows how many of each the DEA is buying so lets just stop with the back and forth BS.
There ya go bro. Thanks to Forest and Scott J
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Posted: 5/7/2004 8:18:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Incorrect. It proves there are 4 companies with the same contract to provide .223 carbines. It does not give any indication as to how many units have actually been ordered or delivered from any of the four which seems to be the focus of the discussion right now.
Since you seem so concerned with calling C4 out, How about backing up your own statement with some documented facts? |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 10:53:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Actually that 4th company STI is an antenna manufacture - I don't know why they are included in the .223 contract. Looks like someone entered the contract number wrong for STI so it showed up as a .223 instead of an antenna contract. See: STI Contract Award |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 11:24:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Whatever SWAT magazine puts into print has to be the truth, the magazine guys would never mislead us and are certainly not pandering to their advertisers.
Government contract does not equal Military contract. |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 4:03:46 PM EDT
[#27]
As far as the Sig Arms contract goes that's not for a AR. Remember Sig makes other 5.56 carbines under model numbers starting with 55_.
All the current M4s that I've ever seen (since 95) have been by Colt. Same with the M16A2 (some FNs, but very few). Haven't handled any M16A3s or A4s. SPRs are made on M16A1 recievers previously purchased under those old contracts. |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 5:39:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Frankly, who gives a shit what the DEA buys?
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Posted: 5/7/2004 5:58:34 PM EDT
[#29]
OK, I can help you understand what you really saw. You saw a (BOA) Basic order agreement! They are (NOT) a purchase order! Thre companies got BOA for .233 weapons for the DEA program. COLT, RRA and SIG. Colt's BOA was for (in rd. numbers) for $100,mil. RRA, was $83,mil. and SIG was for $125,Mil. Colt then got a PURCHASE ORDER, the others didn't, at least not yet, if ever. The Gov't left their options open, and the gov't always do these built in protections, and the false claims from RRA do not help them in the long run. Putting the name of a gov't agency without gov't approval is not only suspect as to being legal, but also false advertisment to say the least !Jack |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:08:42 PM EDT
[#30]
I actually saw the number of AR's that were being sent. Not a pie in the sky dollar amount....
C4 |
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Posted: 5/7/2004 10:19:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Grant,
While you are correct about both the purchase orders and actual numbers delivered, you will never win a verbal argument with "Jack", as he has never been wrong (just ask him, he's happy to tell you) about anything on these boards. I just wonder what tune he would be singing if the RRA rifle, as delivered in very significant quantities to the DEA, had an ARMS 40 instead of the GG&G BUIS. And maybe an ARMS SIR rather than the Surefire M73 quadrail. And maybe an Aimpoint in an ARMS mount rather than an EOTech with the factory mount....I wonder... Sluggo PS...the thread was originally about government contracts, not just military...so DEA, FBI, even Parks Service all apply. |
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Posted: 5/8/2004 5:40:42 AM EDT
[#32]
So Jack, you ever going to stop focusing on Grant and back up your own statements? Now you are accusing RRA of, at minimum, false advertising so do you have any proof? Just so we are clear I could care less who the military or federal government is buying their rifles from as it means next to nothing We all know that their selection process isn't only about who produces the best product. I just think if you are going to act like some kind of expert on the subject and accuse other people of being wrong or misled then you need to back up your statements with some verifiable proof. |
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Posted: 5/8/2004 8:15:06 AM EDT
[#33]
I know that I will never be "right" as far as the Jacks are concerned, but it sure is fun trying!  C4 |
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