Quoted:
First! You are not a dumbass! Just need to think about it for a sec.

The laws states, you need to be in fear of your life to use lethal force.

Case:
A unarmed intruder, say a 15 year old boy looking to steal your T.V., so he can buy his girlfriend a ring, is not theating your life. He never was going to come in your house to do your or your family harm, all his buddies he told this to know it, he never carried a weapon in your house, and had every intention of running away if confronted. Bang you shoot a 15 year old kid, and he dies. You are in trouble.

Now you hear a noise, and do what you said, and shine the light, and see a grown man with a knife, coming at you. Blow him away, and get a pat on the back from the police, and DA.

Same thing.. Person in your house at night. Two different senarios.

Quoted:
You can't use your weapon to get your property back. You can only use the weapon to save your life when you are in danger. Now, the point is how you define a "threat" which you can succefully convince the jurors that your life is being threatened. I recommend you to get a book "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the firearm in Personal Protection". A lot of true cases in this book. You can get a clear concept about when to use your firearms. The most important thing is how you protect yourself lawfully as you fire your weapon. It is a must-read book for all gun owners.

Hawkeye
 10/12/2003 9:31:00 AM


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Quoted:
First! You are not a dumbass! Just need to think about it for a sec.

The laws states, you need to be in fear of your life to use lethal force.

Case:
A unarmed intruder, say a 15 year old boy looking to steal your T.V., so he can buy his girlfriend a ring, is not theating your life. He never was going to come in your house to do your or your family harm, all his buddies he told this to know it, he never carried a weapon in your house, and had every intention of running away if confronted. Bang you shoot a 15 year old kid, and he dies. You are in trouble.

Now you hear a noise, and do what you said, and shine the light, and see a grown man with a knife, coming at you. Blow him away, and get a pat on the back from the police, and DA.

Same thing.. Person in your house at night. Two different senarios.
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Just remember, in FL, we have the Castle Doctrine. I do not have to be in fear of my life to use deadly force in all instances. I can use it to protect my property as well, and, if someone enters your house uninvited, well, too bad for him. Besides, an intruder in your house at any time SHOULD have you in fear of your life or great bodily harm. I doubt he's there to dust the furniture for you.



That said, if at ALL possible, one should ALWAYS try to be sure of your target. In the real world, that isnt always possible. However, I want to light up the person in question so that I can be absolutley 100% sure I hit him. You enter my house, I dont want you leaving under your own power.
Here is one possibility, though it is a bit of a reach for some I admit, it is possible.
Suppose you have a friend/relative that is staying a night with you. You wake up and hear something, go check it out and see a person moving, fight or flight kicks in, adrenaline dump commences, vision narrows, heart races, blood flow decreases to brain, and since it is not something that is a NORMAL occurance for you, you forget that you have a guest......I'll let you take it from there.
Now, lets not get anything misconstrued. As soon as you light them up and determine that they are NOT supposed to be there, then you fire. There is no lighting them up to scare them or whatever. You light them up and either
A. identify them as an unwanted intruder at which time you (should be) are in fear of deaht or great bodily injury and IMMEDIATELY eliminate the threat, or,
B. you identify them to be the house guest you forgot about (or whatever), lower your weapon, and then go get a tall glass of milk to drink while you sit and wait for your adrenaline dump to subside so you can go lay back down.

So yes, I would/do try to illuminate my target when at all practically possible, as I dont like to shoot at a dark silouhette, when I can at all help it.
I do agree to, I will give no warning at all to an intruder. I dont like intruders.  

Quoted:
Hawkeye
Yes. I know all too well.

I have a CCW permit, and have shot and killed an intruder in my home. I went through the whole court room thing, and the amount of bullshit the defense came up with to sway the jury was AMAZING!

Edit: Not my defense, the guy I shot had a buddy who came with him.

Quoted:
Let's see...................

Let's ponder for a second if the person you shoot turns out to be,

Drunken neighbor kid, trying to sneak into his own house, but got lost.

Alzheimers patient missing from "the home".

Child friend of your child, who your kid has smuggled in because their parent's are abusive.

Gee, you think shooting any of them, and saying you did NOTHING to ID them prior to shooting might be a problem?

Quoted:


Hit the nail on the head...this whole [red]"I'm a badass because I'll shoot someone"[/red] mentality is hillarious.  Shooting at an unidentified target is about the dumbest thing I've seen on these boards.

Quoted:


Nothing personal to you, but why in the hell do statements like that have to be brought into a discussion? It seems to happen a lot around here, for no reason at all, and serves no purpose whatsoever. No one has said anything like that.

Quoted:


Hit the nail on the head...this whole "I'm a badass because I'll shoot someone" mentality is hillarious.  Shooting at an unidentified target is about the dumbest thing I've seen on these boards.

[size=2]Quoted:
I head downstairs and clearly see a silhouette moving quietly across my living room. Why the heck would I need to illuminate the target before I shoot. If someone is in my house at night without my knowledge his life is forfeit and I CAN shoot him with my EoTech on.[/size=2]
I'd rather take the [red][u]SMALL[/u][/red] chance that it isn't a criminal then take the BIG chance that my family could come to harm.  

Quoted:
Or a cop driving by sees a man jimmying the door open and entering your house. He sees the man enter through the door and notices the man draws a pistol before he goes in. [red]The cop suspects he knows who this guy is[/red] and that he is dangerous, violent and has outstanding warrants for other burglaries, one in which he raped a woman and he already has two previous felony convictions for burglary.

The man walks down a hall, or somewhere else out of sight so the cop draws his pistol and enters after him. You now come to the top of the stairs, and shoot the cop, figuring that you can shoot anyone who enters your house.

You get to spend, let's say 7 years in state prison, and the cop's widow sues you and gets a 10 gazillion dollar judgment against you, so while you are in prison your wife and son lose the house etc etc etc

Quoted:


Try reading the posts.  Of course that was brought into the discussion.  Or maybe you think shooting an unidentified target in a home is "smart"?

Quoted:


Hit the nail on the head...this whole "I'm a badass because I'll shoot someone" mentality is hillarious.  Shooting at an unidentified target is about the dumbest thing I've seen on these boards.

Quoted:

I can understand your concern for your wife and family BUT... your logic scares me.  Several members here have given examples of why you wouldn't just start blasting away at an unknown target.  I'm LEO in Calif.  About 80% of the 'intruders' in homes at night are kids, drunks, or alzheimers patients.  So it's not a [u]small[/u] chance that it isn't a criminal, it's a [b]greater[/b] chance it isn't a criminal.
Killing someone who had it coming is much easier to live with than blasting granny alzheimer because you didn't take the time to identify your target.
Your logic sounds like you are scared about handling yourself or the inability of your wife to take care of your family while you are busy (I don't mean this as an insult).  If your family is upstairs, then make a stand at the staircase before you challenge the person and illuminate them.  
Does your wife know how to use a gun?  My best backup partner at home is my wife (shoots very well).  She would zip a nun if she was holding a pencil with the sharpened end out.  We have a plan on what to do if there is ever someone in our house (our neighbors are crankster tweakers).  
Develop a plan with your wife and children, even if they don't know how to use a gun.  Which room to go to (preferable one with a phone or cell phone) and a password to use if you are coming through the door.  Once that bullet leaves the barrel there is no recalling it.
One last thing - you're using an AR for home defense?  I suggest the venerable .45, or the 12 guage.  They both have greater shock value than a small, fast moving bullet.

Quoted:
I'm LEO in Calif.  About 80% of the 'intruders' in homes at night are kids, drunks, or alzheimers patients.  So it's not a [u]small[/u] chance that it isn't a criminal, it's a [b]greater[/b] chance it isn't a criminal.

Quoted:
I think that you should try and illuminate the intruder, like it has been said above more times than not it's not someone trying to rob you. I mean you've got an AR and suprize on your side, flick the light on and if it's a burgular they will shit. If they do anything to threatin you then blast away. Also if I did loose it and shoot the sillouete they would find a big knife in the persons hand, maybe a gun.

Quoted:


I am curious about this 80% statistic.  When you say 'kids' do you mean your own kids and their friends or OTHER kids that are breaking in to rob you?  If they are OTHER kids then they are criminals and may be dangerous (depends).  

After reading everyone's comments I now agree I should probably try to identify the target first in some way.  If I don't have a light available then in another way.  I admit I'm uncomfortable with a light for the fact that it reveals your own position to the possible armed intruder.  I'm assuming that statistics prove that if you are ready to fire and flip on a light for identification you will probably be able to identify and fire before the bad guy??  

To bad good night vision is so damned expensive.  Does anyone here consider night vision better than a weapon light?

Quoted:
"I admit I'm uncomfortable with a light for the fact that it reveals your own position to the possible armed intruder."




Yes this is a consideration, but remember most intruders are strangers.
To them: unfamiliar house, in the dark, not knowing who is there, is the home owner armed, how many people home, etc etc.

[b]YOU[/b] have the upper hand, especially if you temp blind them with a bright light.

Quoted:
I hope Surefire sends you a Christmas card every year.

Quoted:
Even if he has a partner, the partner will still have a hard time figuring out exactly where you are.

Quoted:


I agree 100% with IDing target withh a light. However, Hawkeye, criminals will not be carefully trying to locate occupants after their buddy was shot. It would be random shots at shapes, walls, whatever. Those bullets have got to go somewhere!

Please gather families in a "safe" room if you are feeling the need to investigate a break-in. And be sure your position assures some ballistic protection (bookcases work well).

Don't forget the other folks in your home!

    76-2-405.   Force in defense of habitation.
    (1) A person is justified in using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's unlawful entry into or attack upon his habitation; however, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if:
    (a) the entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner, surreptitiously, or by stealth, and he reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person, dwelling, or being in the habitation and he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence; or
    (b) he reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony in the habitation and that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.
    (2) [red]The person using force or deadly force in defense of habitation is presumed for the purpose of both civil and criminal cases to have acted reasonably and had a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury if the entry or attempted entry is unlawful and is made or attempted by use of force, or in a violent and tumultuous manner, or surreptitiously or by stealth, or for the purpose of committing a felony.[/red]

Quoted:

What do you guys with contacts do for this?(home defense)