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Posted: 9/21/2003 9:09:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Some of us still believe in iron sights and basic weapons, although I can't fault anyone for wanting the latest technology for maximizing lethality.
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Posted: 9/21/2003 9:14:36 AM EDT
[#2]
For a lot of us, this is a hobby. The one AR in my collection that I consider my "go to" rifle has irons only and no other add-ons. The others are toys for the most part.
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Posted: 9/21/2003 9:14:49 AM EDT
[#3]
The M4 craze has been around since around 1998-1999.
It's nothing new, it's just that the M4 is the latest Gee-whiz techno rifle. Nothing grabs the hearts of the chairborne commando crowd more than something that looks as tactical as shit.... I almost got bitten by the bug back in 1998 but the way that prices were steadily increasing as the Ca. AW ban loomed and with Y2K hype, I said screw it and just bought a postban carbine for my short rifle. You think the M4 craze is nuts? Wait until the SPR craze really kicks off. It's been going only a year or so, hasn't even really got rolling yet in my opinion. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Ramjet, I'm with you on the KISS theory. My 4 AR's are just iron sights. But, everybody to his own. I might just build one with all the horns and whistles for the fun of it. BOBK
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Posted: 9/21/2003 10:43:30 AM EDT
[#5]
M4 craze? that's sooo 90's. The in group are into SPR now.
As for technology and glass, Red dots are just faster than iron's. Those few fractions of a second may mean the difference between getting the bad guy and getting a notification sent to your next of kin. Half the time I'd like to believe that a "loaded to the max" rifle was done up for a joke. Most of us use the KISS principle also, but then you aren't talking about "only paper" shooters. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 10:44:24 AM EDT
[#6]
A plain rifle with iron sights is adequate for day fighting outdoors, the way most wars have been fought until recently.
These days, our soldiers (and police) do a lot of work at night, in low light, indoors, and lots of other places where lights, optics, and other accessories make all the difference between "effective" and "ineffective and unsafe." It's totally up to you how you configure your rifle and what you use it for, but MOST of the folks who have accessories on their rifle know why they bought them, and what they use them for. -Troy |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 11:02:04 AM EDT
[#7]
I used to be a iron sights and the rest is horseshit guy-I was wrong, you can get hits faster with the red dot sights than you can with irons, and they don't break. Hell most of them are tougher than the rifles they are attached to.
Lights are a necessity also on a defensive firearm. I'm not running down the importance of mastering shooting with iron sights. Anyway Vinnie is right, M4s are passe. SPR's are the hot item now. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 12:42:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Just a thing i was wonderighn about. I agree on a good red dot and a flashlight of some sort but thats about it for my tek AR
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Posted: 9/21/2003 1:01:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm soooo happy that M4gerys are getting passe. Now mine, which I built up 3 years ago, cna join my M16, M16A1, and XM177E2 clones in the same rack. Till now, they wouldn't allow the M4 in. Said it was too modern to hang out with the veterans[:D]
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Posted: 9/21/2003 1:02:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Troy basically said what I was going to post when I saw your question. My gun is set up primarily for night work, everything is NVD compatible on it. All because that's when I'm out the most and when the carbine gets used the most.
The gun would be virtually useless to me without these items. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 1:16:29 PM EDT
[#11]
You know, I can always go back and use 19th century iron sights on my carbine (not an M4gery) - its not like you give up anything to use whizz-bang late 20th century technology like optics or a flashlight.
Something goes wrong with those, I pull the throw lever and my rifle is still as effective as the KISS plain A2 iron sight version. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 2:45:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Didnt we just do this a little while ago?
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Posted: 9/21/2003 5:52:38 PM EDT
[#13]
I guess most of us just want to avoid having a less effective rifle like the guys who are all about the KISS principle. Do you ride a horse to work too? God forbid you rely on fuel injectors, computers and batteries. Thats too much technology and glass to rely on. Are you going to tell us that our own military is ineffective with the same technology? Because those same "gadgets" help make us the most effective fighting force on earth.
I think most of the KISS guys just cant afford the upgrades to have a more effective weapon so they bitch about that which they cannot have instead of saving their pennies. There are no drawbacks to the upgrades. If they fail you are right back at the KISS rifle in terms of effectivness by using back up iron sights. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 6:01:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Red dots ARE faster. That said, have a BUIS zeroed and mounted. If all else fails, go to your irons (which you should be profficient with BEFORE depending on a red dot).
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Posted: 9/21/2003 6:23:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Okkk.....Well, it seems i've stird a hornets nest here. I was just wondering about all the M4 with all the options. I was not bashing anything or anyone. I am just new to the AR realm coing from 308 MBRs.
I agree with technology and its advantages I plan on adding a Red dot and a light to my 16" XM177 (i think thats right) once i build it. I just saw some pics where guys had more add-ons then i had fingers and found that a bit overkill for my tastes. Hell, I love technology. The house we are moving into next year down in AZ I am rewiring the telephone system to CAT5E for dual purpose of phones and networking along with Wireless MP3 for the pool. Please guys i dont want to make enemies here at all. I am just trying to understand the minds behind the rifles Friends?? |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 6:37:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Uh oh...what's an SPR? Am I missing the latest fad?
[b]DAMMIT![/b] I'm always behind the curve on this stuff [banghead] |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 6:41:20 PM EDT
[#17]
You are not making enemies, just starting a good discussion. Rest assured, most on this board will speak their mind, and invariably some will have differing opinions. Some just express them more tactfully than others!
But that's what forums are for, aren't they? After all, most people I work with would take a few steps back and look at me with suspicion if I ask them whether or not they think I should cowitness my red dot sight on my third Ar15 for close quarters combat effectiveness....I don't understand why..... :-) But that's why I come here. |
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Posted: 9/21/2003 6:59:35 PM EDT
[#18]
As long as i am set up with BUIS with optics like AIMPOINT,EOtech,and ACOG,i have the best of both worlds,and dont have to be or feel dependent on any one system,so as to be ready for anything,with my only exception being my aug.
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Posted: 9/22/2003 1:45:18 AM EDT
[#19]
I like mine simple, but I would like to try an optic like a EOTech.
[img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/060180.JPG[/img] |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 2:09:34 AM EDT
[#20]
I love'm all.
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Posted: 9/22/2003 2:18:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Do you ride a horse to work too? BAH!!![lol] |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 2:37:37 AM EDT
[#22]
I have a Colt and a Bushmaster Shorty, one has an EOTech and a light, and is the "Defend The Castle" carbine, but the iron sights are there if I need them. Why did I get/build them? Like all good Americans, I did it for the children!
Mr. L. |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 2:39:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Red dot optics add SO much to an AR15 that if you don't like em, you either haven't had the opportunity to use one, or your batteries are dead.
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Posted: 9/22/2003 2:42:08 AM EDT
[#24]
[cough]AK-troll[/cough]
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Posted: 9/22/2003 3:43:04 AM EDT
[#25]
POOR GUY. HE'S ONLY GOT ONE AR.
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Posted: 9/22/2003 6:38:19 AM EDT
[#26]
I have a transferable M16. I don't really like taking it to the range with the standard 20" barrel so I got a pair of uppers for it (swap the uppers out when one gets too hot from mags dumps): a shorty and an M4. I actually like the shorty the best and will probably rebarrel the M4 with a shorty when I shoot the barrel out.
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Posted: 9/22/2003 6:49:17 AM EDT
[#27]
'SPR'?
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Posted: 9/22/2003 9:54:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Okay, "SPR" definition please.
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Posted: 9/22/2003 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#29]
[s]What is it with the CAR-15 craze around here??[/s] [blue]oops[/blue]
[s]What is it with the M4 craze around here??[/s] [blue]oops[/blue] What is it with the SPR craze around here?? [LOL] |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 10:11:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Okay, "SPR" definition please. Uhh..., what Jynx said. SPR / WTF?? |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 10:21:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Quoted: Okay, "SPR" definition please. Uhh..., what Jynx said. SPR / WTF?? You know , SPR = Saving Private Ryan. We are all ditching the Mattel mousegun for a real mans gun..... the M-1 Garand ! [lol] |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 10:21:41 AM EDT
[#32]
SPR is just soooo yesterday... all the hipsters know the new thing is the Recce rifle. [;)]
SPR stands for Special Purpose Receiver/Rifle and is an 18" upper developed for special operations forces. |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 12:04:27 PM EDT
[#33]
I can't believe no one said "Do a Search". You will get 184 matches when you search for "SPR", half of them about springs [;)].
Here are a couple of interesting ones: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=167508[/url] [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=161978&w=searchPop[/url] |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 1:43:10 PM EDT
[#34]
See the Fall 2002 Special Weapons For Miliatary & Police magazine.
Has a good article about them in there, that is where I quit careing about the M4 and wanted an SPR... |
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Posted: 9/22/2003 4:14:48 PM EDT
[#35]
SPRs, Courtesy of Wes at MSTN:
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/Mk12Vltor.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/Mk12GRN2.jpg[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=14359[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/SPRCrane.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/SPRTS30.jpg[/img] |
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