A friend of mine brought up this topic, and it made sense enough for me to post it.

 We all know the current situation we are all in. AWB about to be renewed (or not). Crazy anti-'s trying to take away every right we have. And for the most part we are somewhat helpless.  Well, my friend, a linguist had a thought.

 The problem (one of the problems) is the language used regarding firearms. We all know that this issue has been politicized to instill fear in the masses when there is nothing intrinsic to fear about firearms at all. What to do?  Re-arrange the language. Hear me out.

  First thing is the term "assault rifle". I don't know about you, but I've never used any of my rifles to assault anyone. So technically, I don't have an assault rifle. In fact, I hate them!! (follow?)

 A better example is semi-automatic. It's a misnomer. There's nothing automatic at all, about a semi. Technically, it's a non-automatic! So, why don't we start calling it PRECICELY what it is, a non-automatic. It's more accurate, and it has that nice tone in language that will put people's fears at bay.

 Why do we focus on the ammo as being High power? Sounds bad! Perhaps we should focus on "Small bore". I mean, it is part of the .22 family (.223). right? So why not focus on that?

 You see where I'm going here. Have you seen peoples resumes lately? Janitors are custodial engineers. Secrataries are not data entry specialists. I mean people go through a lot of stretching to make something sound better than it is. So, why can't we do the same?

 The bottom line is that we as a community, and the manufacturers are responsible for the terminology used around the products. Olympic arms named their variant the PCR (Pollitically correct rifle). And Bushy calls it the XM series. If we apply this thinking across the board, we can beat thew anti-'s at their own game.
  So when that ban comes up just remember, you don't own a high power, semi automatic, assault rifle, you own a small-bore, non-automaitc, small varmint plinker.... thus you're exempt!
heavy.gif

How about we just fucking shoot all the anti-'s.

I like the old Sport Utility Rifle myself.
NoKarma

I've always been partial to Homeland Defense Rifle.
It is my current understanding that the founding fathers,having just fought an 8 year bloody revolution against a tyranical government;felt it was every able-bodied man,of good repute,civic duty, to keep and maintain a rifle and a minimum of twenty rounds of ammunition,to provide for the common defense.
This is written into many state constitutions.

The problem with 'Sport Utility Rifle' is that a sport is a trivial activity.  We don't need sport to exist.

This is why I coined the phrase "Homeland Defense Rifle' about a year ago.  (Yes, I am sure I was the first).  To defend is the opposite of to assault.

Homeland Defense says the rifle is an 'anti-terrorist rifle'

Homeland Defense is deadly serious.

I thought I coined the term, but no matter, great minds and all that...

Homeland Defense Rifle is the perfect moniker, and for exactly the reason HeavyMetal says.

It ain't about deer hunting, or the right to go plinking, or the right to target shoot.  What it is about is the right to defend self, family, and community with the proper tools for the job.

Wait a minute folks. This guy has a point. Calling them sporter rifles leads inevitably to antis asking what kinda sport needs an evil black gun. Battle rifles leads them to say that you never have  and probably never will go into battle, so a gun of this type is not needed.

Non automatic means just that. It is truthful, and what can they say about it? We don't need non-automatic rifles?

And he's right on the caliber. The .223 is, essentially, a .22 bullet with some more powder behind it, with a bigger case. If you called it 'smallbore', what can they say? These small-caliber guns are armor piercing? Be realistic - the general population ( which is not to well versed in ballistics ) think this: Larger bullet, more penetration. Calling it smallbore is just right.

Put it this way. All these years, they have been contorting words to be used against us, and lying about it. How about we turn around and play their own game? This is just so damned simple, that it just might work! They don't expect that we will play by the rules. They expect us to team up with the NRA and mail some Congressman some letters. If we did this, we could knock them on their asses, get our beloved bayonet lugs ( for style and nostalgia ) and flash devices, and CAR stocks back, and prove to the world that guns don't have to look evil to do damage. Everyone associates looks with lethality. If you could smear that image, then you've won the game.

We have a winner ! [beer]

While we are at it, we need to need to harp on how (thanks Wayne L) the AWB was "lied into law".

I remember seething as I watched on C-span the then head of ATF John Magaw said that the purpose of pistol grips on rifles was so that they could be held so that the shooter could spray indescriminantly from the hip.  This, dispite the fact that our soldiers and police are not taught to do this, and firearms with which they are equipped usually have pistol grips.  He lied about feature after feature, he lied about how often "assault weapons" are used in crimes, etc.  Either he was too %($*&ing ignorant to be head of ATF, or he was lying.  I think that when you lie to Congress, it is a crime which carries a jail sentence.

I remember my slogan now, someone needs to make this into a bumper sticker:

"You can't be against Homeland Defense Rifles withoug being against Homeland Defense!"


In other words, if you don't like my rifle, you are a traitor!

I think big-bore starts at about .501 caliber.[:D]

Thats a very good point and got me to thinking.  All the anti-gun basterds do is teach the public lies and misnomers about firearms.  Mabey we should start are own "gun awarness"campain in wich we teach the public the truth. We could teach them for example, that a pistol grip is for erganomics, you know to make the rifle more comferable to shoot. Not to allow you to "spray bullets" which we would teach them is total unaccurate and chances are you wont even hit the person you were "spraying" at. I forget when but I actualy heard an anti-gun lobiest say on tv that because of the pistol grip you didn't even have to aim an AK 47. She said all you had to do is hold down the trigger and sweep it left to right from the hip. I wounder what she would say if I asked her why it had sights if you didn't have to aim it.[>:/] She has obviously never fired a rifle in her entire life.  We should also start calling calapsable stocks adjustable stocks. Tell the public there so the stock can be adjust to "individual shooters arm lengths". We could also explain to the genral public that in an urban crime setting a flash suppresor is no help at all. Even if no one sees the muzzle flash there will still be neighbors the hear the muzzle blast. And lets face it by the time the cops show up the shooting is usaly over so they wont be able to "see" where the bad guy is from his muzzle flash becuase he'll be long gone.  Did the DC sniper use a flash hider on his rifle? No.  Was he cought because some one saw the muzzle flash? No.

Or heres a better one, tell the public that a bolt action 30-06 fires a more powerfull, by wich I mean bigger with more volocity and energy at longer ranges, round than an AR15

Any more segestions of what we should teach the public?

This (sad but true) is the only way we will be able to keep our firearms. Pass the word...........small-bore...........non-automatic.........call the news paper, tell them thay were incorrect if they say semi-automatic.....tell your local gun dealer to use these terms.....I am taking one day next week to write a letter to local gov. using these terms...It is getting ready to get really scary and I do not want to handover my smallbore rifles and nonautomatic pistols.....If I have to register them, then by god I am keeping them no exceptions....

Now all we have to do is enlighten the BATFe…

i like "anti-assault weapon" better. [;)]

And though i appreciate the thought with which it was made, a semi-automatic is a semi-automatic. The only truly non-automatic is a single shot weapon.

Eh, wrong.  By design, when you discharge a firearm that operates with a gas blowback action, the weapon automatically cycles the action, ejects the spent casing, and chambers a new round from the magazine all without user intervention.  How exactly is that nonautomatic?

Hold up, You are just playing their game. Being only a tool, why does the rifle have to be defended? How do you defend an axe? How do you defend a screwdriver? They are tools that can all be used in deadly ways. You have to attack the sources of deception. Stop calling them Liberals, they are Socialist and follow the Trosky and Lenin chain of thought. When this is established as common knowledge then everyone should also see that they (Liberals/Socialist) are ANTI-Constitution. They call it PROGRESSIVE, but it means eventual imprisonment for the gun owner and patriot. Sleep tight, Jeep  

Hold on there. If you were to use the .30-06 as an example, the M-1 Garand is in jepordy. They wouldn't dare ban it, but it would recieve flak IF they began to see that the .30-06 is more lethal.

That adjustable stock thing is good. I like that. A pistol grip could just be called a handle. Sounds retarded, but a retarded name will pass with retarded people. A bayonet lug could be called a mount, to mount a bipod or a flashlight. Once again, this does not tell a full lie. I have seen BL flashlight mounts, and bipods meant to fit on the BL. As for the flash hider, anyone got any ideas?

Welcome to the site, Jeep

"Homeland defense Rifle" sounds good until you remember that many of the people we would be trying to reach are just as afraid of "Homeland Defense" as they are of "Assault rifles." Maybe we should demand a law that would require that all so called assault rifles be painted pink with clown paint dots and flowers. It would be worth it to hear the laughter when Sara Brady held one up. The NRA for all their faults has the right answer I believe, 'Educate the Young' Take your kids and the neighbor kids (With written permission) shooting. Start with small bore or even pellet rifles. Get help from local shooters clubs as to how to go about it. I read a stastistic the other day that said there is  close to one firearm for every person in the USA. Even supposing that many of us own more than one which means many others own none, there are still an amazing number of people who do not like hearing themselves labled 'gun nuts' or worse in the liberal media. We 'owners' those of us who vote that is, put the bums rush to a whole bunch of anti's in the past ten years or so. And we will continue to do so! Meanwhile think polka dots and flowers.NOT! Mikke  

How about we just call the guns what they are.  And we call the liberal, anti-rights, civil liberty deactivists what they are - dumbasses!

Sunset04, easy feller. You seem like an angery young man. Speaking for myself, I feel your pain. I really do. Not all liberals are bad. Try to focus on the anti's. After all they are going to need someone to give them bottles of spring water. Why? B/c they are dehydrated from all the alligator tears they are shedding. [>(]

Recommendation: take your "assault rifle" to the range and "shoot off" a few rounds. Relieve a little stress. Trust me it works. [:D]

glimmerman68

Glimmerman; Is that you or Bill Clinton posting in your name. If there was a good Liberal, he would say something about the other dastardly Liberals. Maybe you are just confused, its Liberals are bad, Libertarians are good. You may see what Liberals are really about, once they take power and they have the guns. They still follow Lenin and Trosky just ask Hillary. The liberal agenda is to take your guns. Its time to  wake up, Jeep

Just to add a bit more smoke to the thread...

ALLWAYS refer to magazines as standard capacity...

Standard for an AR is a 30 or 20
Standard for a MAC is 30
Standard for an AK is 30
Standard for a Sig P226 is 15
Standard for a Browning P35 HiPower is 13

Refer to 10 round mags as reduced capacity mags unless debating the issue in public then add insult to injury by applying the lable "Politically inspired Deminished capacity magazines..."'

I (we) have the right to keep and bear [b]arms[/b], and that right is protected by the 2nd Amendment. (posted below)

Mr/Mrs Demordrah, by YOUR own words, you state when "YOU" discharge.....all without USER intervention."    Now how exactly does THAT work?
My point was clear, the latin prefix Semi- means half, whereas the prefix auto- means self (without external assistance). If something, anything is "Auto-", it simply cannot be semi- ... period! HALF of auto means it's NOT auto, by default deinition. Either it does something (on it's own)or it doesn't.(You can't have half a hole!)
  And if you specify that we are talking about the current meaning of "Semi-Auto", my point is that we are trying to change the meaning to a more acurate term.
But I do agree with you on one thing.... Welcome to the site Jeep98!

Jeep, I guess you didn't read my whole post. I said to focus on the anti's, ie antigunners. After all there are antigunners on both sides. It was a conservative pres who stopped the importation of "assault weapons". It is a conservative pres who supports AWB renewal. Now who is confused? Not all liberals are bad, I didn't say they were good either. As for Bill Clinton, he should in jail. However, it seems 280 million people didn't have the balls to put him there.

BTW if you get the chance to covert a liberal by taking them to the range, by all means do it. It is up to us to wake people up.

glimmerman68

In a thread I ran a few weeks ago I discussed this topic of semantics and turning them around to our correct way of thinking. On the topic of magazines the correct terms are standard capacity and [B] restricted [/B] capacity.

There is less wrong with something being reduced than there is with it being restricted. People, even some of the fools we are trying to reach, don't like being restricted, especially by the government. We've got to think it all through and find the terminology most damaging to their side.

Demordrah, I have no clue why you insist in trying to make me look wrong.
 Why did you say compare DEMI- and HEMI-? Those are Greek roots, we don't mix roots.I was simply pointing out that by being more exact (using the specific meaning of the original Latin, as opposed to the more inaccurate modern usage of terms)we can make certain terms sound more favorable.(While Latin does use semi- to mean partial, it (Latin) cannot accept semi- onto the word automatic. The connotaion in auto is that it is completely autonomous. But Auto can be used a a prefix.)
I simply believe that there is a communication problem between you and I. I, for the benefit of the AR community , was attempting to point out that by further exactness and clarification, we can use ceartain terms to our advantage when it comes to typology. That is all. What I left were a few examples, nothing more. Use them if you wish, simply ignore them if you don't.
 You keep focusing on what a semi- can do, as opposed to what it can't do. We are both simply looking at two sides of the same coin. I don't disagree that by pulling the trigger all sorts of wonderful things happen inside of the recievers. But many other wonderful things are also not happening. I chose to focus on that. I have a few bolt actions that "automatically" throw out my spent casings, when all I wanted to do is open the bolt. Is this too semi-auto? No. But it did preform one automatic action. Other older bolt actions are just fine leaving the shell there to be taken out manually.
 I also made the distinction of keeping "Semi-auto's" closer with bolt actions, lever actions, ect. by grouping them as "Non-Auto" Even if you still want to call it Semi-auto, you still would not be wrong either by calling it Non-Auto. Both terms point out the same fact, it simply isn't automatic. I chose non-auto because of it's more acoustically pleasing to the people that are trying to infringe upon both our rights.
 Weather you feel that the term non-auto is correct or not, it doesn't matter. Do you also agree that an AR-15 is an assault rifle? Do you feel that a flash hider makes a gun more deadly? Do you feel a thumbhole stock makes a rifle safer than a pistol grip rifle? We're fighting a word game everyday. All I want is for us to play by their rules, fight fire with fire.
 Now, lets stop taking up valuabe bandwidth and reply only if it has something to do with the POINT of the original post.
 

lost cause [rolleyes]

Glimmerman; I read all your post. I addressed Liberals in my post, where ever they may come from. What conservative Prez. are you talking about? The current Prez is spending more money and supporting more freedom robbing laws than any former (so called) Liberal Prez. He has already allowed a statement supporting the extension of the Semi-Auto and Hicap Magazine ban and will unless it is political disaster for him. This Ban (law) is stupid, since a person can buy any banned item he wants if he is willing to pay the current GOUGED price. Anyway, do not mention conservatives again as now I am begining to doubt their character also. Can you name a Constitutionalist in our government beside Congressman Ron Paul (TX)?  Well, I bet you can name a bunch of LIBERALS and so called CONSERVATIVES in our government though. Back to you Glimmerman, Jeep  

Linguistics-semantics-----Hey you guys, if you are going to argue definitions of semi-auto between yourselves, how in the hell are you going to come out on top arguing semantics with the Socialists, er Liberals? What are you going to call a Saturday Night Special, a Pizza. What about a black evil gun, racist catagorising. Gun nut, I'll leave this one for you. YOU are keeping firearms in the equasion. They are attacking the guns to get to your right of ownership. Attack them for what they are and DO NOT PLAY the game on their terms, or you lose. Jeep

Last post tonight guys, I promise. When you get the time, go to one of DEMORDRAH's posts, and read his close statement by Thomas Paine. Read it again, again. Now read it again and let it sink in. Hell read it until you understand what it is saying. I'm hoping Tom Paine will make a connection with you I doubt I can. Jeep

Who do we start with first? That decision could plague us till every last one has fallen.

Jeep, your killing me over here. Liberals conservatives, you've got my head spinning like a top. My brains are coming out my ears from the centrifical force. Okay, I'm glad to see you starting to see these "politicians" for who they really are. Crooks!!! They spend our hard earned money like they have a right too. Then tell us we don't need certain rights ( 1st, 2nd amendments ).  I can't tell you how mad this makes me. Constitutionalist? Sounds like we need more of these. Provided they can prove themselves. Can't name to many "politicans" b/c I can hardy stand to watch the liberal news media. They only tell you what they want you to hear.

I'm angry, I'm cynical. Gun control is making one whole with two shots. Now back to YOU Jeep.

glimmerman68

You could call a flash hider a vision protector.  It protects your vision in low light situations.

Glimmerman; I find my posts a waste of time. Seems they  go over the heads of most members on this thread. The lack of response is an indication of the the ignorance referred to by Thomas Paine in the close of DEMORDRAH's post above. I do thank you for your feedback. Between the Liberals and Conservatives, they have obliterated all the first 10 Amendments to the US Constitution not just the 1st and 2nd. Ignorance can be cured by a desire for the truth. You say you do not follow the liberal biased news. Do you search out the truth available on the www. Search out Worldnetdaily.com , try sierratimes.com , JPFO . Search PATROIT and CONSTITUTION on the net. You should know your politicians names so as to know whom your enemy is. The estimate is 60 million gunowners in the United States, that these 60 million gun owners allow the politicians to shit on there 2nd Amendment Right, is pathetic. If we gun owners can only come up with arguing semantics with the Socialists (your anti's) then I have to believe we are not entitled to the 2nd Amendment Right established by our forefathers. Politically, 60 million people can easily elect a President, but thru ignorance and indifference, they keep the same politians. We gun owners should vote for people who believe in the Constituion, but then again the Socialist (your Anti's) have denigrated Constitutionalists to the level of the KKK, Patriots, and Gun Owners. Sound discouraging, not really because THE TRUTH CAN SET YOU FREE. Have a nice day, Jeep  

Jeep,

While your points hold a certain merit, fact is, if the [i]king[/i] doesn't want you to have [/i]it[/i], then you won't. The SC somehow managed to base its ruling on abortion from an extrapolation of the 4th Amend. protection from illegal searches & seizures. I'm not quite sure what the 4th has to do w/ the abortion issue, but done is done. If the courts want something to happen, then they will make it happen.

Bottom line: your argument wouldn't get a blink in a courtroom. In this country, the legal agenda for the 2nd is plainly obvious. Current political forces prevent it from being wiped from the Constitution - at least for the time being.

Hi Master-Blaster. You are losing me. There are facts and then there are THE facts. Kings can be deposed. Any law passed in contradiction to the US Constitution is null and void. Legal and political precidence is supposed to be in concurrence with the US Constitution not at the whim of any personal or contra ideas. Question. - If 10% can do this to the People of the United States, why can not 11% undo it? - Are our guns just for hunting?  Guess my question should be, WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH? Jeep  

Face it, the country does not support our lost cause. It may sound like doom and gloom, but when you think about it, so long as baseball is on or any other sports, 95% of the population is happy.
Some of you realize this is a political game of two card monte. Right is always trying to appease the left, and vise versa.
So you end up with a centrist if you're lucky at best, and you constantly compromise your rights one by one until they're all gone.
What you guys want is for the average moron sitting on the couch watching TV with his baseball cap on backwards and his pud in his hand to distinguish between the liberal line, Guns = bad, vs. the pro-gun side which the facts back up the reasoning for owning firearms, but takes far more effort and time to prove.
Countries like ours do not last forever simply because the politicians must appease the voting population with the most BS to get elected that they do not side with what is truely good for the country.
There is no one to vote for in our elections. I'm to the point that I've realized it has slid so far left that it would be easier to give them the country to burn to the ground, then when the real men have had enough, they will arise and take back what is theirs. If not, then we do not deserve this country.
The Constitution is a written affirmation of our Rights as dictated by God (christian or even the law of nature.) You have a right to defend your rights, they aren't free.
Reiterate the following to any gun owner who doesn't care about the fate of the AWB.

[i][b]When they came for the Semites¹ I said nothing for I did not know them.
When they came for the Gypsys, I said nothing, for I was not a Gypsy.
When they came for the Communists, I was solaced by my safety.
When they came for the Gays, I clung to my wife.
When they came for the Labour Organizers, I hid in my business.
When they came for the Rights organizers, I was glad I had been silent.
When they came for my wife, I cowered in the corner.
When they came for me, there was nobody left to fight for my rights.[/i][/b] (paraphrased)

Need I say anything more? Look at the outcome of their refusal to fight. Gun control worked well for their Government don't you think?
Never happen here? What the hell did you think the Jews thought? You have that much faith in the Government? Who would be the next perverbial jew in our country? Perhaps evil white people?
Are you willing to take the chance that your children will end up like this?
[img]http://www.stjohnsprep.org/teachers/d_smith/holocaust/medexp01.gif[/img]

The issue with gun control is people see guns as a hobby, or for hunting duck. My guns are for me, my family, my community and my countries protection from enemies foreign and domestic.
[i][b] "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana[/i][/b]

This is the way to win the "war." If you refuse to fight, be prepared to swollow your gold teeth.
[img]http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Teeth.jpg[/img]
[b]384 pounds of gold teeth removed from Jewish people in the death camps.[/b]
Most were removed with a pair of plyers while they were alive. Fun huh?
But of course, this will never ever happen again right? Sorry, but I'll be the guy with the [50].
-Steve

stevenb, Well said and as graphic as needed. There are too many of us who even after the hundreds of millions of slaughtered innocents of the last century refuse to see below the skin-thick veneer of modern society the always waiting abyss. Mikke

 

Steve / Mikke: Thanks. I was beginning to wonder why I was the only one on this post to see the destruction coming in the future, while we argue with the enemy. Appeasement must stop. Steve; Your post shows you have not closed your mind to study and research which was my attempt to induce on this thread instead of the semantics argument. You should know the enemy, you should not debate with them. Best wishes, Jeep

A vision protector... That sounds alright, but then they could argue the need to shoot in low light situations.

WHat about a muzzle protector? Technically, they can be used in that sense, as it prevents the crown ( if any ) of the barrel from being damaged.

Any law passed in contradiction to the US Constitution is null and void, eh? Tell that to the [b]innocents[/b] who were arrested & had their vehicles confiscated along HWY 10 in Louisianna, courtesy of the RICO laws. And, no, after it was all over, they were never compensated. Look up the RICO statutes sometime. Just be sure to drink something warm while you read, lest the chill you down your spin cause you to catch a cold. RICO = Right to be [sex]'d.

Of course, there's also the case of the innocent man who was knowingly imprisoned for 30 years, courtesy the FBI. He, too, was never compensated or even given an apology.

The Constitution sounds nice, but only if you've read it. Considering that so many believe this country to be a democracy (which it is [u]not[/u]), what are the odds that they even give a damn about the semantics of the Preamble, Declaration of Independance, or Bill of Rights. If I had to lose a finger for every Amendament in the Bill of Rights that has been castrated, I'd damn near have to learn to type w/ my feet.

You see, I agree w/ you, but it doesn't matter as far as politics & the law are concerned. Politics gets in the way of truth, & the law often comes along for the ride. It takes votes to intimidate politicians, change politics & the laws of governance. If you want to depose the king, then you'd better have a stronger army than he does.

********************

A blatant example of what we're dealing with: Senator Dianne Feinstein possesses a Kalifornya-issue CCW (impossible to get for the avg. Kali citizen), & has stated that she would call for mass gun confiscation if she could get the votes. Yet, hypocritically, she has no intention of turning in her piece if/when that glorious day should come to pass.

Know who & what you are dealing with.