The Senate is currently working on a Feinstein, Schumer, Clinton et al AWB and it will very likely pass the Senate. Then it goes to the House where McCarthy et al will get it attached to must pass legislation. Then there will be nothing our friends and allies can do about it because they have to pass what it's attached to. There is no other option. New and improved AWB, listing dozens more guns by name, not allowing transfers at all which means yours till you die then they chop it up, etc.

SO THE HALF OF YOU WHO FOOLISHLY BELIEVE AND KEEP SAYING IT'S GOING AWAY NEED TO GET REALISTIC. GET ON THE PHONE. GET OUT PEN AND PAPER AND WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR. PHONE AND WRITE. THEY COUNT BOTH. THE FAT LADY HASN'T SUNG AND THE FAT LADY IS AN ULTRA LIBERAL FORMER FIRST LADY IF YOU STAY COMPLACENT AND NAIVE.

Post the link(s) to the article(s) please!

Gentlemen,
Feinstein and Schumer were tremendously influential, the first time around.
Clinton only complicates things even further.
We're drawing against a stacked deck here.  This thing is not going away on its own.
Do not believe ANYONE, that says there's "no way" the ban will pass again.  Sunsetting is not the answer, as hard as we're working, the lib's are doubling, in order to get it to the floor, and pass, they know w/ a sunset, it will be much more difficult to get this ban , but before a suset an extension is much less difficult.

LDB Knows what time it is !!!!!!!!!

The Ban is here to stay !!!!!

Only if you let it stay...

There was Neal Knoxes report/editorial in the Shot Gun News.  Some senator, (may have Fine Swine or Shoo Mer) said they will attach it to the House Appropriations Bill (approves the budget).  This is damn near a slam dunk for passing.  

You can't just attach a bill to another because you want to.  If a bill is proposed (say DOD spending), it must be amended to include any other matter.  The amendment, whether in committee or on the floor, must be voted on.  If the amendment does not get a majority it fails.

as long as their isn't a 'big' shooting b/w now and september, the AWB is dead

Im sure "they" could arrange that Absolut

Lets hope that nothing happens.  Or if someone w/ an agenda might make something like that happen to make the legilation pass.  It's a good thing that the east coast shootings didn't happen right now....much closer to the AW bill's experation....

The ban as standalone legislation has no chance of passage. None. Nada. Zilch.

The Anti-Gunners know this. So they are going to try to attach it to some must-pass bill. Probably in the dead of night, or right after a school shooting.

Remember, the MG ban in 1986 did not pass on its own either, it was attach to some MUST-PASS legislation too.

We must not let down. We can win, by we must fight to the last day.

And be sure, it will be re-introduced if it doesn't pass. The Brady bill was introduced SIX times and shot down FIVE. But the sixth one passed, and now it is law.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Regardless of what the Legislative branch does or doesn't do, it still requires a signature from Mr. President, and there's currently not any 'must have' legislation in sight save Medicare prescription cards.

[b][/b]

Doesn't matter if it's on a "Must Pass" legislation that happens all the time, House Majority Leader DeLay won't let it reach the floor with any riders to the bill as it will be killed in committee.

Quoted:
"I've always wanted to pee on a chick in a cage....."

Off topic but I just gotta know what this above quote is all about.....please give me link to thread...[:)]

On the main concern..........STAY VIGILANT!  Even though it may die we have to always act as though it is a privelage and not a right even though it is a right!  Otherwise were done for!

Several of the replies so far still beat the guaranteed sunset drum and that drum is defective. There is absolutely no guarantee it will sunset. We must all make ongoing contact with our elected officials. DeLay is definitely on our side but he isn't a god or the lone ranger. He can only do so much. Keep at them all, especially if you live in the district of a moderate. They may be the key, not rabid like McCarthy, Feinstein et al and not willing to risk losing reelection on something they are only luke warm about.

IT'S COMING BACK IF PEOPLE KEEP THINKING IT'S GONE INSTEAD OF WORKING TO MAKE SURE IT'S GONE!!!

This would be difficult to do as any House bill amended by the Senate generally goes back to a joint House-Senate committee (where the House has dominance) to work out the details.

It would also require a majority vote in the Senate to attach such an amendment and several prominent Democratic Senators (Feingold and Daschle) have already indicated that they will not be taking any prominent stands on gun control with elections so near.



Actually, what happened in the MG ban was this:

Every year for 8 years, Volkmer had submitted a bill called the Firearm Owner's Protection Act that repealed some portions of the 1968 GCA. Every year the Democrats killed it in committee and it never saw a floor vote.

However, there is a process called a "discharge petition" where if a majority of Representatives sign the petition, you can force a floor vote (Nancy Pelosi has declined to start one for McCarthy's AWB bill so far - suggesting that they want the issue more than the actual fight).

Volkmer started a stealth attempt to force his bill out of committee. Normally, this would be a desperate measure because the controlling committee would just insert all kinds of ridiculous provisions into the bill and report out the bill they modified instead of the one that was proposed.

However, in 1986, the Dems got lazy. They didn't draw up an alternate version of the bill and Volkmer's sudden surge of votes for a discharge caught them offguard. Volkmer was able to force a discharge before they realized what was up - with about four minutes left, the Democratic House Leadership allowed some shenanigans that even the Congressional Record described as "questionable" and the Democrats were able to insert the machine gun ban into the bill.

After this the bill went to the Senate. Rather than let the Dems kill it in a joint committee, the Senate decided to do a straight vote on the House bill unamended and passed the FOPA - banning machineguns but also giving us protections that could have made the Clinton presidency 10 times worse than it was for 2A rights.



Absolutely 100% true. The Antis ARE going to fight on this and if nobody shows up because they think someone else is going to protect their rights for them or that it is in the bag, the antis will win by default.

i believe sumthing will happen that isnt good for us..ive been guessin that they would add sum AWB to a must-pass law...itll be sumthing like Free College to all newborns and in fine print,,also ban everyone from owning guns..thats bout the gist of it.

btt

Well, unlike the Senate, in order to get any bill/amendment to the House floor, they're gonna need a Rule that allows it, the old standard is it's got to be germaine to the legislation on the floor if it's an amendment.  Open rules allow for amendments, closed rules don't, more or less.  The House operates differently from the Senate....the rules for each bill govern when the bill comes up on the floor; how much debate there will be, amendments allowed, and a few other things.  

With a Republican controlled House, The Rules Committee Republicans have significant control over stuff like this, and will be on the lookout for skullduggery from the Dems on this and other issues as well by keeping a tight reign on the rules.

After the bill passes both houses, differences are hashed out in conference, where some TRUE wheeling and dealing goes on.  The Dems can't just add it in conference if the language doesn't exist in at least one the bills.  

Political pressure can certainly change the atmosphere up there over the next year, which is why everyone needs to keep the heat on their respective Legislators.  Believe me, I've spent enough time around the Hill to know that whetever else you can say about those guys, they DO pay attention to what their constituents say.  

[b]die-tryin:[/b]  E.S.L. - look into it!

And, FWIW, what Dr. B[red]a[/red]nzai said was:  "No matter where you [red]go[/red]... there you are."

edited to return to the topic:
BTW, I agree somewhat with LDB - I'm not convinced that the "antis" will have as easy a time of it as he describes, but I think "sunset" is much too far away to be taken for granted.  I'm not pessimistic enough to pay today's inflated prices for pre-bans, but I'm also not optimistic enough to be parting with the ones I already have...

I don't believe they will have a cake walk however what I believe and am saying is that the half of the members on this board who keep rejoicing and discussing blah blah blah after the ban sunsets blah blah blah are foolish for taking the sunset for granted. Everyone needs to be working for it to sunset. It's not going to sunset as easy as they think either.

The side that has everyone committed and working toward their goal is the side that is most likely to win. We have the edge since DeLay and the house are on our side, but that isn't a guarantee. If 9x% of the antis work to renew and 4x% of us work for sunset because 5x% of us are stupid and taking it for granted, guess what.

I dont own any stinking assault weapons

don't have the link, but it was in a thread about some lady PETA protestor sitting in a cage outside someone's work painted like a tiger or something

Those whackos show up here in Montgomery a couple of times a year & protest in front of Chris's Hotdogs (a Montgomery institution since the turn of the PREVIOUS century & a lame location for a PETA protest...).

The protesters have included:

PETA-girl in a cage painted like a tiger...

PETA-guy dressed like a giant upright fish...

PETA-guy dressed like Jesus, holding a sign reading:  WHAT WOULD JESUS EAT?

(I couldn't resist informing him that Jesus ate fish... then treating him to some of my favorite deer-meat stories & recipes.  For some strange reason, he didn't seem to appreciate them...)

Getting back to the 86 Machine Gun ban...

It was attached as an amendment with mere minutes to go onto the 1986 McClure-Volkmer Gun Owners Protection Act.  That amendment was added and voted upon by a voice vote, the chair declared the amendment passed over protests, dropped the gavel and it was all over.  No one even knew what was in it until it was all over, a done deal.  By then it was too late.

Yes, trickery and fraud.

I saw the vote on tape, and the voice vote was questionable... "In the opinion of the Chair, the Aye's have it, the amendment passes."  Bang!

But it sounded to me like the nay's had it, and it did to the ones that were denied a chance to call for a rollcall vote.

This is the kind of stuff we need to watch out for.

RenegadeX...


This bears repeating...

We only got where we are today because the liberals attack our rights incrementally, just a little bit at a time. Can you imagine 20 years ago someone telling you smoking would not be allowed in private establishments?

I don't think we are going to get everything back in one giant step like having the ban sunset without nothing to replace it.

I see our rights only coming back when all 3 branches do it step by step. When the liberals try to take too big a bite at once it fails, like Hillary Clinton's health care plan. Conservatives need to attack the problem on a daily basis in a step by step manner which will work, history shows this.

A good first step would be for conservatives in the house and senate to insure any new AWB lacks the teeth to enforce it. Perhaps set up enforcement with an undermanned new agency, libs always love more agencies and this one will turn out to be really small and inefective. It's all in the details.

The momentum I think is in our direction but we can't push the snow ball too hard or it may break. In the long run we can and will win.

Baby steps got us here and baby steps will get us out.

And now I must step down from my box.

Bill Paradise

If one of the new, in-the-works bans were approved, I would be curious what they would propose to do the the tens of thousands of "assault rifles" out there that would then be illegal to own?

[banghead]

They'll get it Passed the Old Fashion way, they'll stage a Mass Shooting somewhere near DC, And BTW the DC/Virginia Sniper case got the Homeland security Bill Passed, it was a Mind controlled program ran right in front of your eyes on national TV.

I must add that there is no "last day" in our fight.  We must fight to the last man, woman, and child who believes in the individual rights of all.  The key word is "eternal".  AS long as there is one of us remaining, we must never relax our guard, feel complacent, or compromise in our support for these rights no matter what the political climate is.  

Politics change, policies change, and every compromise and every slip will compound until those rights that we value are no longer ours to cherish.  This isn't just about the AWB or the race to reach 9/04, it's about a fight that we have been slowly losing up until now. We have an advantage now, and we must work hard to ensure we keep that advantage for as long as possible and to pass policies now that will prevent further laws like the AWB from ever passing again.  It isn't about just letting the AWB sunset, it's about ensuring that laws like it are made to be impossible or extremely difficult to pass.

No it was standalone legislation, just like I said. You can still look it up on Thomas if you like. HR4332 introduced on 3/6/86 by Hughes (D-NJ). It got nowhere. It was then attached as amendment H.AMDT.777 on 4/10/86 to S.49, and passed. Passed Senate on 5/6/86, presented PRESUS on 5/7/86, and signed into law on 5/19/86.

The complete history is on Thomas. Here are the links:


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d099:19:./temp/~bd0Plo::|/bss/d099query.html|

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d099:./temp/~bdaQCRo:1[1-8](Amendments_For_H.R.4332)|/bss/d099query.html|

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d099:SN00049:@@@S|/bss/d099query.html|


Anyway, the POINT is, the anti-gunners will use similar tactics, cause it ain't going nowhere on its own.

And the NRA will sell us out, if it gets attached to the Lawful Commerce in Arms Bill. Bank on it.

Yes, S.49 is McClure-Volkmer.

[url]http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html[/url]

By the way, thomas.loc.gov links deeper than the root URL don't work.



While I severely doubt that they would ever be able to successfully attach the AWB to the Lawful Commerce bill, I would just point out that if you really believe that about the NRA then its in your best interest to let them know that isn't an acceptable solution.

Unless of course you quit/don't belong to the NRA, in which case, you can just let the duck hunting members make those decisions in your absence.

Yes, this is true and very important!!!
We must let the NRA, as well as our representative's in congress, know of our feeling on this!

The Ban will sunset. The problem is...........some other piece of legislation (Probably more restrictive) will take it's place!

Be carefull what you wish for.

NO IT MIGHT NOT!

Both S1034 and HR 2038 are retroactive and both eliminate the sunset provision.

CRC

I agree with all the concerns here,and we have to let our elected officials know how we feel about it,yes we have to fight to the last day and not be complcent that it will just sunset,but my question is this when is the NRA going to get of its ass and get more agressive with getting the word out TV TIME

I bet you severely doubted they would be able to attach a MACHINE GUN BAN to a FIREARMS OWNERS PROTECTION ACT, but they did, didn't they?

If you do not believe it, you better wake up RSN.

It's great that the NRA supports our beliefs, but until they get off their ass and actually make a difference, they're not getting a dime from me.

Do you have any idea where U.S. gun owners would be TODAY but for the NRA?  It doesn't sound like it.  Do they do enough to satisfy me all the time?  No.  But to assert that they haven't made/don't make a difference?  Get real.

Don't worry about it - the next time I send 'em a "dime," I'll send an extra one for you, ingrate.

Because Democrats controlled the House and the committees - especially the Rules Committee. That isn't the case now is it?

If you know something I don't then I'd love to be enlightened; but here is how I see it:

Lawful Commerce Act has already passed House so it can't be amended there. It has 50 co-sponsors in the Senate and 53 Senators willing to vote "Yes" on it as-is. For it to be amended with a ban renewal in the Senate, Feinstein has to find 51 Senators to support such an amendment.

So first Feinstein has to unify all the Senators who haven't signed on to the bill (including Daschle and Feingold who have to get reelected in 2004 and are already telling gun control groups to pack sand as a result). Now she has to convince 4 Senators who are ready to vote for the bill as-is to back her plan.

She also has to do this without any help from Senate leadership - since the Republicans control it. That is important because any objection to the amendment requires that the bill be put aside for at least one day and placed on the Senate calendar - a function the Senate leadership controls. Also a "day" is counted as a period of time from Senate adjournment to the next adjournment. So if the Senate takes recesses instead - still the same day by Senate legislative rules even if months have passed.

Once this happens, the Senate bill now differs from the House bill substantially so it goes to a joint committee. Most importantly, the Speaker of the House has the authority to refer the amended bills back to the controlling House committee with or [b]without[/b] time limits for consideration.

Assuming the bill gets to conference, the Speaker now gets to choose which House members will represent the House on the conference committee (generally following the advice of the committee chairman for the matter). The Presiding Officer of the Senate does the same for the Senate's side.

Each side gets one vote (one for House and one for Senate) - the majority of House conferees determines the House vote and same for the Senate. So essentially, the Republicans will get to pick out who works on the conference committee (though less true for the Senate side).

Can it happen? Sure, it's possible; but it isn't real likely if we make even token efforts to oppose it.

All gunowners have to do to kill the assault weapons ban is show up for the fight. I just hope that most of them won't be sitting on their ass counting on someone else to show up for them.

The NRA needs to form another illegitimate federal law enforcement branch to balance out the ATF:

The ATF:
- Busts you at the range if you have alcohol
- Busts gun owners who have M16 parts
- Plant evidence on suspected criminals

The NRF:
- Fines the range for not providing cold beverages
- Busts gun shops that overcharge for pre-ban magazines
- Plants evidence on suspected staunch liberals

If it was not for the NRA, guns would be illegal in the US. Period. They make a huge difference; they are the most effective gun rights lobbyist bar none. Do I agree with everything they do? No. Do I like the weekly money begging? No. But they are all we have, and the best way to make them better is to get more members of our persuasion.

Like any other PAC, they reflect the views of their members. If more "Black Gun" owners would join the NRA and voice their opinion, then they might fight more for "Black Guns".

I am sure you-all are just like me. Plenty of friends who bitch & Moan about the AWB, but are not NRA members, State Members, or even bother to write a single letter to Congress. The AWB would be REPEALED if we could just get 25% of them off THEIR ASS. This is as much a battle for us as the anti-gunners are.

It's going away!!!  Now, where's my drum?  Ahh.. there it is!

[img]http://www.drumhoops.com/24x8drum%20double%2004.jpg[/img]

Well im a paying NRA member and im gonna bitch,yes they have done alot for our firearm freedoms but they are not in the open enough the way the antigun crowd is ,they need to do more,and ive wriiten my senator and my congressman,they need to get more in the trenches with us.

dont know if the rest of you feel this way, but it seems that everyday someone starts a thread about the AWB, and every day its the same thing, either "AWB is on its way back and no one can stop it", or "AWB will sunset with no renewal in the near future"
Im getting sick of it, everyone always posts the same stuff.

I called a local talk show today to get the word out,plan to call different ones this week.Sent out email to every one involved.Also check out S.1034,similar legistlature getting looked at by the senate comittee of the judiciary.F.James Sensenbrenner is the chairman(emailed him today).You can get him at:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/

also NRAILA is instructing us to call:Speaker of the House,(R) Dennis Hasert 202-225-2976,House majority Leader(R)Tom DeLay 202-225-5951,Senate Majoriy Leader(R)Bill Frist-202-224-3344 & the White House 202-456-1111.
It probably wouldnt hurt to pester Mrs.Feinstein or Ms.McCarthy and tell them about their bad ideas.Has anybody noticed how the mainstream media hasnt picked up on this?

http://www.nraila.org/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=144
try that

I dont know if the rest of you feel this way, but it seems that everyday someone responds to a thread about the AWB and complains about how repetitive it all is, and every day its the same thing, either "I'm getting sick of it", or "everyone always posts the same stuff"  Well, I'm getting sick of it, everyone always posts the same stuff... [:D]


Just kidding, Furner - yes, it is starting to get a little old & it's not going to be ending anytime soon, unfortunately...
[beathorse]

Here is my 2 cents,
I have been writing polititians since 1993 about gun control.  They ignore you, or write back thinking you support their agenda.  Resently I wrote GOV. McGreevy of NJ against the smart gun bill, and in his reply he thanked me for supporting gun control. These Polititians do not care republican or democrap. They all go to the same ivy league schools, and belong to the same fraternal orginizations. Plus they are mostly all wealthy.  The 1986 Machine gun ban did not exempt corperations. A corperate owner can't own a new Machine gun, but his corperation can, hence he owns them.  Us blue color workers are nothing but pawns in their games.  We are not in their prestigeous  clubs, and we do not donate big dollars to their campaigns.   What bothers me the most about the anti gunners is, that many are Jewish and Afro-Americans.  The one implement that would have helped their people in the past was the firearm.  Just think what Six million Jews at the time would do to Adolph Hitler and the SS if they were armed with Tommy Guns, 1911s and Browning automatic rifles.  Or if the tribes in Africa had modern firearms of the period.  I pray for freedoms sake it does not get renewed, but I am not hopeful.  The next amendment they will go after is the Fourth.

youre on to something but  people have 2 ways of looking at guns and crime. we see that criminals up to no good are armed wheyher we like it or not and we want to be at least as well armed to defend ourselves, however a lot of liberals believe that if we can only hold someone and something responsible it would stop the crime.

i cant speak for the black community but i can say something about the jewish community and guns. im jewish as a start and most of my family slowly accepting the fact that i believe in being armed and will never go quietly.

many of the jewish people who survived the holocaust have a abhorence for guns and think that up until the people had guns they didnt build concentration camps. i think once the people had the approval of their goverment they would do anything and we see te mob mentality over and over again in history. now i said most but not all, rmember the warsaw ghetto held out longer than the whole of poland and those were poorly armed.  shortly afterr against great odds they established a jewish state.

i assume the same views are in the black community regarding guns but they also have to deal with the gangsta rap thing too.

its a paradox that the people that you would figure would be most in tune with the concept of protecting the freedoms we have won with our blood would be willing to trade it away if someone would take responsibility for their security. we know that those who trade liberty for security deserve neither. i just hope people will wake up and remember that without the second the first goes, the fourth, the fourteenth and so on till we have no freedoms left.

i will never understand why i should lose my rights because some doped up moron misuses a weapon, i will never understand why my defense is limited to 10 rounds but a police officer is entitled to more, is my life worth less than his, is yours?

2gun.
Being a cop, My life is of equal value to yours.  What the Gov. did not realize is that civilian security guards on accassion do back up us in LE.  The guys can only carry 10rd mags, putting the good guys at a disadvantage. Many times I responded to crimes, and if the victim had a gun, the results would be different.  It is sad that our freedoms are rotting away in exchange for the big brother government to take care of the meek.  If things get worse, I will take my to son the land of my father.  Italy is not much better than here, but the recently eased up their gun laws.  Also, Switzerland is a train ride away,