Assuming no more legislation is passed to replace the AWB, does anyone know what the implications are for existing postbans?  Will they remain postbans, or can I buy a pre-ban upper to slap on my postban receiver after the sunset? Or will I be able to buy a receiver manufactured after the AWB sunset and build a pre-ban around it?  As for hi-cap mags, will the current batch of LEO mags be legal for civilians to own?

It'd be nice to build a pre-ban kit around a postban lower, but how would I go about proving I "manufactured" it after the sunset?

Thanks in advance for your replies.  Is anyone else hording their rubles for the buying frenzy that's sure to follow?


P.S. Don't forget to draft and send your letters to your congressmen and let them know you want that sucker to die, die, die!

That's right folks, it's grassroots time.  Don't just e-mail, don't just call, and don't just send in those pre printed NRA postcards.  Do all of the above and then write the bastards on real paper, put it in a real envelope with a real stamp and mail it.  It's too easy to e-mail, and it is pretty easy to call, but to sit down and write a real letter takes more effort.  Personally I am planning on pestering the hell out of my congress critters for the next year.
If we really flex our muscle we can win this fight.  
Err BTW didn't mean to hijack yer thread there Rick, personally I am gonna pick up a few hicaps for my glocks right off the bat.  And someone better start making some decent friggin Mini-14 hicaps or theres gonna be hell to pay.  Oh yes one other thing, I want an FN Five Seven in the worst way.  This will also give the AR-10 series a big kick in the pants, imagine plentiful 20 rounders for an AR-10, I would be saving my pennys.
Q

Damn straight.   Apply real pressure via the mighty pen, and we'll get our stuff back.

Should that happen, and nothing replaces the current ban, then the status of pre-ban and post-ban rifles will be IDENTICAL.  ALL of them can then be configured as pre-ban.  You will also be able to freely own, buy, sell, trade, use, and abuse high capacity magazines, even if they have the LEO marking on them.

When the ban sunsets, it will be as if it never was.

CJ

Preach on brother!  I'm licking my stamps as we speak, er, write.  
Ricky Rifle

Unless the BATF pulls an extraordinarly outrageous ruling out of their hat, after the sunset there will be no such thing as a pre-ban or post-ban... any firearm will be able to have the evil features.

Personally, I plan to have a real collapsible stock installed on my Bushy M4gery, and will likely also have that mini-y comp yanked off and replaced with a flash supressor.



I have no idea about this, but it sure would be nice for us to have access to this stockpile.



LOL.  One thing's for sure, if things go our way, Christmas 2004 will be a record breaking shopping season for those in the firearms industry.

--Mike

Actually, the BATF would NOT have a legal leg to stand on if they were to continue to apply AW ban restrictions to "ban era" weapons,  or any other era weapons for that matter.

A BATF ruling has to have a solid base in the letter of the law.  The only purpose of BATF rulings is to provide real world interpretations of the letter of the law, and nothing else.  

A BATF ruling that has no basis in law is completely meaningless.   Such a ruling can not keep you from legally putting the 'evil features' on your rifles after the ban sunsets unless other laws specifically prohibit you from doing so.

The BATF does not make law.  They merely interpret it (fairly, I think) working from the basis of the written law.  

I honestly think they do this part of their duties quite fairly.   Not all of their rulings are entirely consistent with each other, but in the great majority of cases, BATF rulings can be shown to be a very fair interpretation of the law.   So my beef is with stupid laws, not unfair interpretations of them by the BATF.

CJ

Ha! Excellent question! It will provide a second chance to stock up(max out credit cards and sell the kids) before the next go around!(Crime Bill II )
 [:D]

I've given this some thought over the last four months.

I plan to buy all the standard capacity (read hi-cap) mags that I can for my handguns and plan on buying at least three collapsable stock AR weapons.

In regards to the actual sunset.  Yes it can happen.  Yes it is a long shot.  But so was the initial struggle for independence that founded this country.

I suggest giving up one range day per month and spend it handwriting, form letter writing, faxing, emailing your representatives and the leaders of both parties.  

As for those who have invested much in pre-ban weaponry that will lose value; be glad you had the distinction, guts, bravery and tenacity to own something so founded in patriotism; but so vilified by those who have always swayed with strong totalitarian leaders.  And be pleased that you could enjoy shooting those weapons while others could not afford them.  You have realized and enjoyed their true full value.

But once the ban is over; then it will be time again for all free men to participate in a broader definition of freedom at a hopefully lower and lower cost.  It would be my wish that weapons of all kinds would become increasingly less expensive over time, so many more freedom loving people could own them.  And that mass ownership could continue to do what the 2nd amendment was set out to do.  For ever discourage our government from taking our freedoms.

IMHO always,
--LS1

I don't think the reason the Five Seven isn't on the market has anything to do with the AWB.  The 5.7mm round was in itself considered "non-sporting" and the ammunition itself is what is tightly controlled (along with the P90 subgun/pdw).  

The Five seven itself would not have any restrictions (other than lack of ammunition) as it is not a copy of a full auto subgun or "assault" rifle.  It does not have a stock, nore a foregrip of any kind.  The pistol itself is not an AW in nay way.

The sunsetting of the AWB will in no way affect availability of the Five Seven.  The only way for a civie to own one is for the round to be designated as "sporting".

NO.  It is not.  It is a SURE THING. THIS ban will sunset by its own language.

The only thing to worry about is whether or not it will be replaced with other stupid and pointless legislation.

And THAT, my friends, is where YOUR letter writing skills become very important.

I don't want to get into a lengthy analysis of the positions of our congressmen on this issue because it's been done to death already, but in brief,  this new incoming congress is absolutely the most pro-gun congress we've had in several decades, and I judge it to be quite unwilling to enact new laws to replace expired ones that never did do what their authors intended simply because the authors were stupid and didn't understand (or care) about cause and effect.

I would refer you to any of a number of other AW ban sunset related topics for a more in-depth look at exactly WHY I believe this to be true.  

CJ

Well,

That certain laws have no effect is a matter of perspective. From the point of view of its proponents, the '94 law did exactly what its designers intended: limit the access that you & I have to [red]evil[/red] [b]black[/b] guns. 'Crime prevention'-speak is for purposes of selling to the public. Even R. Reagan bought into & endorsed the AW bill. The real enemy isn't the poor, misunderstood 'hood. Nope. The enemy is you & me.

As for writing to my reps., well here in WA State, I think 2 or 3 of the 5 district reps are pro-gun. Both Senators are anti. In some states it's even worse. You think writing will count for much in places like San Francisco, Los Anegeles, or the glorious state of Massachusetts? Hell, it might have the opposite effect. I'd bet $$$'s to d'oh! nuts that Senators like Ted Kennedy & Barney Frank (not to mention, Patty Murray & Maria Cantwell) 'aint gonna budge.

For some reps, writing [u]will[/u] make the crucial difference. For others, it'll have no effect. That's not cynicism. That's just cold, hard reality.

Write to those who might be swayed. Encourage those who already agree. Don't waste time on those who don't. They already like to argue. I'd guess arguing is how they continue to further justify their position to themselves. Spare yourself the headache of a 'you don't need that' reply from their ilk.

SOMEBODY WITH GOOD WRITING AND WORD SKILLS SHOULD WRITE A LETTER SO THAT US THAT ARE NOT SO GOOD WITH WORDS CAN COPY DOWN AND SEND IT TO OUR CONGRESS CRITTERS, THAT WAY WE CAN HOPEFULLY WIN THIS FIGHT AGAINST TYRANNY AND COMMUNISM AND NAZISM(IS THAT EVEN A WORD?).
FYI;  adolph hitler(may satan be butt-f*cking him right now) FOUNDED GUN CONTROL RIGHT BEFORE THE WAR, FUKT UP HUH?

Christmas 2004 (or sooner) will be a great shopping season indeed!

To me one of the most critical factors stemming from whether or not the ban is allowed to expire is: Will the expiration of the ban hurt the value of pre-ban firearms?

I think there are several dealers who would just as soon not see the ban lifted, having invested heavily in hi-cap mags and pre-ban rifles.

But in looking at pre-ban rifles that are available, I don't see how letting the ban expire will really hurt the value of very many of them. You know, it's the tendancy of gun people to think that things built long ago are better than those built now. This, coupled withthe fact that so many "preban" firearms were banned not by the 1994 ban, but by the 1989 ban, leads me to believe there are still fine investments out there regardless of whether or not the ban expires.

Of course, the imported assault rifles cut off by the 1989 ban will still be restricted even if the 1994 ban expires. Chicom AKs and the SKS were once largely considered junk, or at least, low quality, back when they could be had for little money. Not that I'm saying they were junk, but many people had that impression. Now, many people believe the Chicom AKs were the best ever available, and few deride the "value" of the Chicom SKS. See how good the water taste when you can't have any at all? The desireability of such rifles will probably not be affected at all if the 1994 ban expires. There will still be people who claim the Chicoms are the best, and they will hold their value for that reason.

Another example, the Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A. The earlier (spelled pre-ban) M1As were put together using mainly US Government surplus parts. The ones but together now are assembled with many parts of (what some would consider) inferior quality. This is setting a senario very much similar to the "pre 1964 Winchester" craze. That is, there will be a lot of people saying the early ones were put together with higher quality parts, and are worth more because of that. Regardless of whether or not this is REALLY true, those who have invested in such firearms will insist it's true, and not be willing to sell their weapons for a loss.

For that matter, how many "preban" manufacturers are completely out of business due to the ban? Look at Calico. That is an example of one firearm that will never return, even if the ban is lifted. It will retain collector's value even if the ban expires. And even if some company comes along and decides to copy them (make new ones) there will be those who insist the earlier ones are better. The price will not go down.

In buying firearms with the sunset approaching, I'm taking these things into consideration. Don't be surprised at all if the price of many "preban" firearms doesn't go down one lick even if the ban is allowed to expire. I tend to believe the price of many of them will hold firm, or even rise.

Are there any state AW laws that would be affected by the "sunset"?

To my knowledge, no modern state laws banning AWs have been written on top of federal laws; they stand alone. When the '94 ban dies, some state laws may roll back just like some state highway speed laws were repealed shortly after the federal NTSB law was repealed. However, you can count on Kalifornia forging ahead to champion the cause of a gun-free America where the U.S. Congress "failed" to do so.

[url]WWW.AWBanSunset.com[/url]

"I think there are several dealers who would just as soon not see the ban lifted, having invested heavily in hi-cap mags and pre-ban rifles."


I think that cuts both ways. I'm no dealer but I stand to lose a good chunk on all the mags etc. I dropped $$$ into, but think of this...
You, me, and the next 100 guys to read this post will cause such an explosion of demand that the market will more than make up for it. Think the cost of preban mags, weapons & periph. will drop? Horseshit!!! In a panicked state of giddy consumerism we will ring Bushmaster's, Colt's, Armalite's, etc. lines off the hook for new orders in all departments. Demand will far oughtweigh supply as in a panic we all try to fill our lists before the next isolated & stupid incident sends the Brady Bunch in a rabid tizzy. The price of such items would go down, but supply would keep the cost steady for quite some time. Of course the Antis (both inside and outside of our legislative body) will be plotting well before the expiration so we need to stay vigilant and active-- and not just the month before the voting process.

Methinks I will slap a 6-pos collapsable on to my (no longer) post ban M4gery, lay it down on a copy of a September 14, 2004 newspaper, take a picture (or several), make copies and send one to my lawyer.

I will also post them here.  :)

I think if you read my post again, you will see I'm saying the price of many "prebans" will not go gown if the ban expires.

Im going to buy a EAA witness 10mm.  i have wanted one for a while but refuse to buy a gun that i cant get full capacity mags for.

Ben,  The_Emu

As of right now, MA residents can legally own any pre or post-ban AW because it's modeled after the Federal law.

[url]http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/140-121.htm[/url]

Part of it reads; "Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the [b]federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30)[/b], and shall include..."

I'm no lawyer but, because the Massachusetts AW ban is more or less identical to the Federal ban, I interpret that as meaning if the Federal ban expires, the MA ban will be voided since the federal legislation that defines an AW will no longer be on the books.

Unfortunately, the number one gun-grabbing crunt who authored the original MA ban will almost assuredly reintroduce a revised bill.

She tried to close the supposed 'loophole' last year, but it never made it out of committee.