User Panel
Posted: 8/26/2013 9:54:23 PM EDT
I appreciate having the opportunity to speak to members of this forum. Troy Asymmetric, part of the “World of Troy,” is a business entity with a director who until this past week, held exclusive hiring authority. I am its owner, it bears my name and as we have witnessed in recent days, effects public opinion of all Troy divisions. Earlier this week, I terminated an instructor who did not support the Second Amendment as ardently as I and members of the community do.
Troy Asymmetric provides training to military and law enforcement personnel. If you spend 5 seconds on the website you’ll see a graphical depiction of a bomb explosion - the primary focus of the company. Take a moment to read the course list and you’ll note a common theme: training pertaining to explosions, bomb threats, post-blast crime scenes, incident command and crisis management. Instructors’ primary areas of expertise lie in the “bomb world,” with EOD experience, critical incident response, and tactical decision making. Some posters on the forum have said we only train “Jack Booted Thugs” and there is a secret agenda. These same posters conveniently ignore Troy Prepared: www.troyprepared.com. Troy Asymmetric to this date has offered no firearms training for Gov’t and LE, but in comparison, Troy Prepared has always offered firearms training to qualified civilians. From a factual, non-emotional context, it is impossible to draw the conclusion that we somehow do not support the Second Amendment and are only training “secret army”. On August 22, 1992, Dale was an HRT Operator tasked to a mission in which he found himself facing armed adversaries. His thoughts were not only on the situation at hand, but the tragic death of a child and a U.S. Marshal. During this type of confrontation when people die, you don’t have the ability to pick sides, they are drawn before you arrive. Dale did what he was trained to do as a sniper / observer. He was fortunate not to have to take a life at this engagement. Special Agent Horiuchi made the regrettable shot, a mistake for which he will never be forgiven. Of the FBI Agents assigned to the Ruby Ridge tragedy, Dale has been one of the most outspoken. He has delivered dozens of presentations to more than 1000 civilians titled “Mistakes and Lessons of Ruby Ridge”. I weighed carefully the decision whether or not to retain Dale and could find no ethical or moral reason to remove him. Dale has not committed a criminal act, he answered all questions honestly, he did not cover anything up and he did not shoot anyone at Ruby Ridge. Dale was asked to join TA for his critical incident management expertise. Dale was never slated by TA for firearms instruction. We all know from our biggest failures come the greatest lessons in life. Providing training that is relevant with experienced, qualified instructors can prevent a tragedy like Ruby Ridge. Dale will be able to deliver this powerful message and lessons learned in crisis management and incident command. I am driven and passionate about bringing effective change through pertinent training and speakers that have lived through these nightmares. Many times I have seen posts in forums that state “if you weren’t there then SDASTFU”, with that same school of thought, there is no one better than Dale to speak about tragedies like Ruby Ridge. I have been a longtime and outspoken supporter of the Second Amendment. I always choose to do what’s right, even if my stance goes against others opinion. I will not throw this man to the wolves as he has demonstrated throughout his life high integrity and honor. I know most of those who would disagree are using this forum to voice your anger towards the United States Government. In some cases that anger is justified. The Ruby Ridge tragedy and the loss of life there make no bigger example of abuse of power and Government gone wrong. However, I disagree with your personal attacks on my family and company as we are not the Government and we are not training “Jack Booted Thugs”. I am a patriot and I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States, all of it. Those who have taken that same oath recognize the importance of keeping it. Thank you. -Steve Troy |
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I'll need to think about this.
ETA: Done thinking. Nope. I love all of the Troy products that I own. But, no more for me. That's sad because I was ready to order 5 more BUISes. Not now. I wasn't even going to check out any competitors. The sale was in the bag. Now it's poof. |
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Sorry doesn't cut it in my book but you are the one that has to live by your decision not me.
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I don't care about the "technicalities" on whether Dale Monroe broke the law at Ruby Ridge as it pertains to Steve's decision to keep him on board at Troy Industries. However, I do care that Troy hired a person who was involved in that blatant misuse of Federal power to begin with. It may not be "fair", but everyone on the government side of that ordeal should be permanently blacklisted and ostracized in order to send a strong message that we will not tolerate this type of behavior by our Government.
No more Troy Products for me. |
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Quoted:
I have been a longtime and outspoken supporter of the Second Amendment. I always choose to do what’s right, even if my stance goes against others opinion. I will not throw this man to the wolves as he has demonstrated throughout his life high integrity and honor. I know most of those who would disagree are using this forum to voice your anger towards the United States Government. In some cases that anger is justified. The Ruby Ridge tragedy and the loss of life there make no bigger example of abuse of power and Government gone wrong. However, I disagree with your personal attacks on my family and company as we are not the Government and we are not training “Jack Booted Thugs”. I am a patriot and I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States, all of it. Those who have taken that same oath recognize the importance of keeping it. Thank you. -Steve Troy View Quote I appreciate your thoughts on this controversy, but after review of public statements and video made by Mr. Monroe there is no way to support that he demonstrates "high integrity and honor" in any way. A man of high integrity and honor would have refused obviously unlawful ROE instead of forming up on the blue wall against women and children. At a minimum, he would have spoken out against them when they were found to be so wrong after the fact. Instead, he dug in and based on what I have seen is unashamed of his actions and those of his team to this day. I understand from your post that he is your friend and you are loyal to him. You have chosen your friend over your customers and it is your choice to make. Where I have choices in products, I choose to support those who support me. Good luck to you. |
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Unfortunate, the side you have chosen, Troy.
I will not support any company who sides with those who would willingly kill innocent people. |
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Good luck with your letter of secession. It seems to be working.
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Before the plants come in here talking about it's their company, and they can hire whoever they want. You are absolutely right, and consumers can spend their money however they want too. I have ordered a new Fortis rail, and i can't wait until magpul comes out with the metal buis.
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I've held my tongue throughout this fiasco, feeling that we needed to give Troy an opportunity to evaluate the situation, and come to the right course of action. I very much was hoping that Troy would come down on the side of freedom, and that I could continue to purchase more gear from them. I have sights, rails and other components from Troy industries, and was planning on purchasing more.
I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. And now we have. And now it's time for us to make our decisions based on the information available to us. During this type of confrontation when people die, you don’t have the ability to pick sides, they are drawn before you arrive. Dale did what he was trained to do as a sniper / observer. View Quote This statement bothers me greatly. It's morally equivalent of the Nazi's who "were just following orders". Ruby Ridge was one of the biggest examples of government abuses in recent history, and everyone associated with it, who didn't stand against it and didn't fight against that abuse, should have no place in any company that actually cares about freedom and the American way. I have yet to see any statements made by Dale at any point condemning what happened at Ruby Ridge, in fact, quite the opposite. So because of that, because Troy Industries has chosen to align themselves with Dale Monroe, I can no longer support them in their business endeavors. I will no longer be purchasing any items made by Troy for any of my firearms. A line was crossed, and while some think that the firearms community has turned against Troy, it is quite the opposite. Troy has turned against us. Remember that: You are the ones that chose which side to be on. Not us. |
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In the past, I have been a good customer for Troy. At this time I've got:
1. A 7" drop in rail. This was the first rail for an AR-15 I ever bought. (Original price $150) 2. A Troy Carbine. (Paid $1500) By the way, I bought this as a way of showing you support shortly after the Dicks Sporting Goods debacle. 3. A 13" Alpha Rail in FDE. (Paid $170) 4. Set of FDE tritium flip up sights. (Paid $300) If I add all of that up, it comes to about $2120. Maybe that's not a whole lot of money to you, but I suspect I'm not the only one and I'm sure there are others that have more of your products. I just want you to know, Mr. Steve Troy, that I will not be buying anymore of your products. Perhaps whatever revenue Monroe is able to bring in exceeds what you think you're losing. But I think you are underestimating what this is costing you. You say there is no moral or ethical reason to remove him. But I would say that no matter how you want to justify your actions, you must agree that there is a business reason to remove him. That said, if you see no problem with his actions and statements concerning what happened at Ruby Ridge, then I am not convinced that you are the defender of our rights that you say you are. At least, you aren't when it comes to the government end of your business. Your statement does have an elitist tone to it, which as a customer and gun owner I do not appreciate. What about your duty to the rest of your employees? Is keeping Mr. Monroe so lucrative that you can stand to lose business? What happens if your business declines and you have to lay off employees? Exactly what is so wonderful about Mr. Monroe that he is worth keeping even with that risk? Mr. Troy, I don't have anything against you personally. I know you've done a fair amount of activism for the 2nd Amendment and you make good products. But you have to understand that defending Mr. Monroe contradicts the other principles you have said you stand for. You probably don't care that you've lost my business. But, you're going to have to come to grips with the fact that you're not the only game in town when it comes to these kinds of products. As consumers, we have choices. If it costs me another hundred bucks to buy the Noveske then so be it. There was a time when I was proud of my Troy carbine and my Troy accessories. Now I am ashamed of them. Can you imagine how I feel, as a customer? Spending a couple grand for products that I'm now ashamed of, not because of the quality of the product, but the actions of the company itself? I haven't decided how I'm going to sell those items, but I'll probably take a loss and get rid of them. We've got the current administration and the vast majority of Democrats doing everything they can to stick it to law abiding gun owners, and now we have to deal with this crap. Thanks for nothing Mr. Troy. |
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Monroe committed no crimes. I agree. He only stated he would have if given the opportunity. I'm glad Geissle makes a light handguard now.
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Thank you for explaining your position, unfortunately based on that position I can no longer purchase any Troy products. This saddens me greatly but I cannot support an organization which shelters and defends the extremely questionable actions of jack booted thugs.
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thanks for sharing your position.
you just lost my business... forever. i just placed a 1500 dollar order with midwest for rails and various sight parts. your shit products will never again appear on any rifle i own. fuck you. i dont reward stupid decisions with my money. ETA: i am also going to wear a boycott troy industries sign at all the gunshows i attend in the future... sammich board style. |
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Quoted:
I appreciate your thoughts on this controversy, but after review of public statements and video made by Mr. Monroe there is no way to support that he demonstrates "high integrity and honor" in any way. A man of high integrity and honor would have refused obviously unlawful ROE instead of forming up on the blue wall against women and children. At a minimum, he would have spoken out against them when they were found to be so wrong after the fact. Instead, he dug in and based on what I have seen is unashamed of his actions and those of his team to this day. I understand from your post that he is your friend and you are loyal to him. You have chosen your friend over your customers and it is your choice to make. Where I have choices in products, I choose to support those who support me. Good luck to you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I have been a longtime and outspoken supporter of the Second Amendment. I always choose to do what’s right, even if my stance goes against others opinion. I will not throw this man to the wolves as he has demonstrated throughout his life high integrity and honor. I know most of those who would disagree are using this forum to voice your anger towards the United States Government. In some cases that anger is justified. The Ruby Ridge tragedy and the loss of life there make no bigger example of abuse of power and Government gone wrong. However, I disagree with your personal attacks on my family and company as we are not the Government and we are not training “Jack Booted Thugs”. I am a patriot and I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States, all of it. Those who have taken that same oath recognize the importance of keeping it. Thank you. -Steve Troy I appreciate your thoughts on this controversy, but after review of public statements and video made by Mr. Monroe there is no way to support that he demonstrates "high integrity and honor" in any way. A man of high integrity and honor would have refused obviously unlawful ROE instead of forming up on the blue wall against women and children. At a minimum, he would have spoken out against them when they were found to be so wrong after the fact. Instead, he dug in and based on what I have seen is unashamed of his actions and those of his team to this day. I understand from your post that he is your friend and you are loyal to him. You have chosen your friend over your customers and it is your choice to make. Where I have choices in products, I choose to support those who support me. Good luck to you. A very big +1 on this. You are the company you keep. And the company you keep has admitted they had no issues following what should be considered illegal orders, and in only not a murderer because his 'partern' was quicker on the trigger. |
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No more Troy Industries products for me. Good luck with your company.
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I have three upcoming builds. Rest assured, none of them will contain any Troy products. As a company you have made a decision; as a consumer I have made a decision. Sometimes, the wolves are there for a very good reason.
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FAIL....
You knowingly employeed dale. You are not a Patriot. Good bye. I think I may put in my sig line."Troy knowingly employeed an assassin." |
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Quoted:
I've held my tongue throughout this fiasco, feeling that we needed to give Troy an opportunity to evaluate the situation, and come to the right course of action. I very much was hoping that Troy would come down on the side of freedom, and that I could continue to purchase more gear from them. I have sights, rails and other components from Troy industries, and was planning on purchasing more. I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. And now we have. And now it's time for us to make our decisions based on the information available to us. This statement bothers me greatly. It's morally equivalent of the Nazi's who "were just following orders". Ruby Ridge was one of the biggest examples of government abuses in recent history, and everyone associated with it, who didn't stand against it and didn't fight against that abuse, should have no place in any company that actually cares about freedom and the American way. I have yet to see any statements made by Dale at any point condemning what happened at Ruby Ridge, in fact, quite the opposite. So because of that, because Troy Industries has chosen to align themselves with Dale Monroe, I can no longer support them in their business endeavors. I will no longer be purchasing any items made by Troy for any of my firearms. A line was crossed, and while some think that the firearms community has turned against Troy, it is quite the opposite. Troy has turned against us. Remember that: You are the ones that chose which side to be on. Not us. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I've held my tongue throughout this fiasco, feeling that we needed to give Troy an opportunity to evaluate the situation, and come to the right course of action. I very much was hoping that Troy would come down on the side of freedom, and that I could continue to purchase more gear from them. I have sights, rails and other components from Troy industries, and was planning on purchasing more. I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. And now we have. And now it's time for us to make our decisions based on the information available to us. During this type of confrontation when people die, you don’t have the ability to pick sides, they are drawn before you arrive. Dale did what he was trained to do as a sniper / observer. This statement bothers me greatly. It's morally equivalent of the Nazi's who "were just following orders". Ruby Ridge was one of the biggest examples of government abuses in recent history, and everyone associated with it, who didn't stand against it and didn't fight against that abuse, should have no place in any company that actually cares about freedom and the American way. I have yet to see any statements made by Dale at any point condemning what happened at Ruby Ridge, in fact, quite the opposite. So because of that, because Troy Industries has chosen to align themselves with Dale Monroe, I can no longer support them in their business endeavors. I will no longer be purchasing any items made by Troy for any of my firearms. A line was crossed, and while some think that the firearms community has turned against Troy, it is quite the opposite. Troy has turned against us. Remember that: You are the ones that chose which side to be on. Not us. There was a book written on this subject. It is called "The Banality of Evil" and it is about one of the worst human beings that ever lived. To this day, we call people that take this position (the Nuremberg Defense) and behave accordingly "Eichmann". |
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I don't understand wanting to hire anyone involved with that incident regardless of what they were doing. In Poor Taste is being kind.
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I can at least appreciate your response to your customer base.
However, I have a choice of where to spend my money and it sure as hell won't be on Troy Products. |
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This is greatly disappointing to me. I really like Troy products, I own a 15 inch Alpha Rail, 6 battlemags and was planning on buying more accessories for an upcoming build. I'm a forgiving man, disassociate yourselves form the likes of Monroe and refrain from hiring someone equally odious and I'll be willing to consider this just a stupid mistake. If not, well, Lancer mags are pretty awesome, if a few dollars more. Diamondhead makes nice MBUIS and their rails look intriguing too...
Ruby Ridge is a HUGE issue for american patriots. |
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When I see a troy product I will let the dealer/store the full story about the pro- assassin company.
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This is very saddening. I was so happy with the build my fiancé made me that included a Troy alpha rail. Now I will be pulling it apart and replacing the alpha rail with a Geiselle SMR MkII as soon as it arrives.
This is very disappointing indeed. I can only hope you see the light before to long. |
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Troy, man guys , you are seriously blowing it ! I will no longer buy any troy product and I will tell everyone about what you have done. The scum at Ruby ridge get no free pass, and so you shall not either..................... What are you thinking?
Blowing it ...............big time |
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No more Troy stuff for me, and I'll make sure to steer everyone I know, or whoever asks me, away from Troy.
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Well shit, I was really hoping things were going to turn out differently. In the last year I have bought a Troy rail and a couple buis' so it isnt exactly like I have broken the bank but I will never buy from Troy again. I am now ashamed of my rifles for using these products. First time I have actually been ashamed of a purchase since I bought Vanilla Ice's cd.
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You do understand that there will never be a way to come back from this epic failure - the damage cannot be undone at this point Steve. You had a very small window to make this right and instead you circled the wagons and doubled down on the stupidity...WTF..?? Really..??
Good bye and good riddance. |
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Mr. Troy,
I have set of your flip up sights and a front fixed sight. I am no longer satisfied with these sights, as I do not care you have your mp name on any weapon I possess. Are you willing to buy them back? **While I am not surprised......Troy refuses to buy back any sights just because I am not satisfied with them. Anyone need a set of flips and a fixed front......cheap? |
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This issue about Dale Monroe is bad enough in and of it's self, but you pile it on with the hiring of Jody Weis, a former Chicago cop who is vehemently anti-Second Amendment.
Why do so many in this industry give themselves self-inflicted wounds?? You would have done much better if you had hired Tex Grebner..... ETA: Yes, Weis was canned, but the fact that a former top cop from Chicago wasn't even given a cursory vetting speaks volumes about the hiring process at Troy Industries.... |
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Quoted:
Mr. Troy, I have set of your flip up sights and a front fixed sight. I am no longer satisfied with these sights, as I do not care you have your mp name on any weapon I possess. Are you willing to buy them back? **While I am not surprised......Troy refuses to buy back any sights just because I am not satisfied with them. Anyone need a set of flips and a fixed front......cheap? View Quote Even if they were free, I would not mount them on any of my rifles. |
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Well Troy, looks like you already used the backhoe and dug your own grave. The vast majority of people on here, myself included are dumbfounded with your continued support for a Jack Booted Thug. In true arfcomm terminology, Let many fucks be upon your profit margins!
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View Quote So now we know what is inside their Trojan Horse logo. |
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Quoted:
Even if they were free, I would not mount them on any of my rifles. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Mr. Troy, I have set of your flip up sights and a front fixed sight. I am no longer satisfied with these sights, as I do not care you have your mp name on any weapon I possess. Are you willing to buy them back? **While I am not surprised......Troy refuses to buy back any sights just because I am not satisfied with them. Anyone need a set of flips and a fixed front......cheap? Even if they were free, I would not mount them on any of my rifles. Guess I left out the sarcastic smiley.......... |
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