One of my friends did a temp sensitivity test with CFE using an ice cooler in the summer last year I think.

He saw about 70fps difference.  I would have to look up the thread, but it is temp sensitive.  Not as bad as a lot of other ball powders, but not like XBR or AR Comp.

XBR and AR Comp seem to be some of the lesser temp sensitive powders.

With XBR, be sure not to exceed 28.5gr under a 123gr as it will spike on you, and keep track of lot numbers, working up with new lots.

A lot of people find 28.3gr of 8208XBR under a 123gr AMAX to be an accurate load, and I've noticed it many times over the past 7 years now across different shooters.

8208XBR is a bit fast for a 120gr-123gr, and has really nice burn characteristics with 100gr cup and core in the 6.5 Grendel, but is so accurate for many people.

Hodgdon has pressure tested data for it and list their max load at 28.5gr Compressed under a 123gr SMK, which generated 50,000psi.  COL for them was 2.250".

I've had nothing but excellent results with CFE223 in both my 16" and 18" barrels under 123gr AMAX, 123gr SST, and 120gr TSX.

Another bullet to look at is the 107gr SMK, which has a Litz BC of .461 G1, and that will make a great combination for the 600yd line at least.  You will get the max BC from these pills with the tight twists from 6.5 Grendel, especially the 1/7.5" and 1/8".  107gr SMK with 8208XBR is something I am going to test next range session, along with several other bullets and powders.

LR,
     Funny you say not to go over 28.5 with 8208XBR.

I started out the day with 28gr of IMR8208 and it shot good out to 600yds.

I had some loaded to 28.4gr from a previous test I decided to shoot rather than disassemble. POI was ~3MOA higher than the 28gr load, using the same POA.

It printed about MOA. I think that is probably near max with my rifle and will stick with the 28gr load for now.

SY

not semi-auto but...

found an action for my upcoming grendel project. Thinking about a light varmint weight bbl around 20" and 2.5-10x of undecided make.

Ordered the Lightweight AA 16" barrel on Thursday night. Just got an email update with tracking #.....it will be here tomorrow.  Not bad.


I pulled the trigger because the guys at ADCO said they could rethread the 9/16-24 down to 1/2-28 threads.  


I don't have all the parts for it, but enough that I can do a "mock up" and throw it in the safe......



take a number and get in line......the "project build line"

what muzzle device are you going to use?

I wish they would standardize on 5/8x24 so 30 cal suppressors and QD mounts could be used.

Most suppressor companies offer 9/16x24 brakes.  About 7 years ago, not as many did.  All the big names have them.

The problem is that with the .700" fore end profile on lightweight barrels, you have no sufficient shoulder for using a crush washer or precision washer for brakes.

It isn't just to be 9/16x24, but for a valid reason of providing shoulder support for muzzle devices.

5/8x24 may be common between DPMS and ArmaLite Inc. and their copies, but KAC uses another thread pattern altogether, namely 3/4x24.

AA, TBAC, Surefire, AAC, Silencer Co., Dead Air, PWS, Gemtech, Precision Firearms, Vltor, Smith Enterprises, YHM...

This thread is having me strongly consider ordering a barrel and changing one of my ARs over to 6.5 eventually...

Seems to be no downside apart from some extra cost in mags and ammo.

Magazine capacity and recoil.

How much do they want to do that?

ADCO AR15 standard barrel threading service is $65.

ADCO

Any thoughts on TAC powder?

How much would I be giving up with the 16" barrel? This is mainly going to be a Montana hunting gun, can't decide on barrel length.

TAC is a very popular powder with 6.5 Grendel, like most powders for .308 and .223 Rem.

It doesn't really give you the full speed potential that CFE223 or LeveRevolution do under a 120-123gr, but you'll be within 75-100fps of CFE.

Depending on which bullet you use, the 16" can be anywhere from a 400yd capable gun or more.

With the 123gr SST or AMAX, it still expands out to 400yds.  Especially in the mountains of MT, you will have thinner air, so your effective range for expansion is at least 400yds even in cold weather, where muzzle velocity will be lower.

A 20" Grendel will increase your expansion range with the 123gr SST out to anywhere between 450-490yds at sea level.

At 4000ft elevation in MT, you have expansion out to 500yds with a 20" Grendel and factory 123gr SST.

From the 16" in the same conditions, same cartridge, you have expansion out to 425yds, with a 2400fps reduced velocity considering colder temps.

If you use the 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range, you have expansion out to more than twice that range, which is well beyond the capabilities of most shooters.

A lot of people like the SST because it has very rapid expansion, but controlled at Grendel impact speeds, it has great weight retention for a through-and-through, and obviously great penetration even on large game.

If you know you are only going to be shooting within closer distances, a 16" is plenty.

If you are looking for being able to shoot long range, after some formal training and familiarity with all the tools for that, the 129gr ABLR from a longer barrel would be something to consider.

I'm personally torn between a lightweight .260 Rem or Grendel with the ABLR for longer range hunting.  We're talking out to 700-800yds.  With all of my personal rifles, whether .260 Rem or 6.5 Grendel, it feels like I can't miss even at that range, and I accredit that mostly to modern ballistics programs, accurate muzzle velocity data, high BCs, and handheld weather stations where I can get actual baro pressure, temperature, and anemometer readings.

The .260 Rem is a lot flatter, to the extent that hitting a vital zone-sized target at 700-800yds is child's play with the 130gr VLD especially, but the Grendel isn't far from it.  Wind deflection and trajectory are measurably more from the shooter's perspective, but with a registered shot on a rock in the target area, you can dial-in really well for your wind.  A 20-22" 6.5 Grendel set up with carbon fiber furniture and balanced out really well would be enough to leave the .260 Rem lightweight plans on paper.

I haven't found a .260 Rem gas gun that is light enough for humping up and down the mountains with, so I took my 17.6" 8lb Grendel last elk season and had a smile on my face the whole time, up at 9,200ft elevation.  It was like carrying a stripped down M4 with no SOPMOD.  I was using an experimental 94gr Hornady GMX, and limited myself to shots within 400yds, but never saw any elk that would stay still within that distance.  They run in the woodline in herds very fast.  I'm tweaking my plan for this year to get better positions for a shot on a static one. I carry a tripod with the PIG Saddle in my TT 3-day pack.  I carry binos, kestrel, snacks, water, and other gear in my vest.

I've been resisting.

That's not going to last.

Come on in. The water is fine.

Still waiting on my 16" from AA. Was supposed to be here yesterday. Then it changed to today.  Still not here


Stupid brown truck.

Not too bad. The scope will add another 17oz.

The mag is empty so not sure how much that will add when loaded.

I have two 6.5 G that I built.
If you want long range accurate rifle's you need a barrel from "Precision Firearms" period!. I won two F-class 600 yard matches with one of his 24" Krieger barrels; most everyone else was shooting 26-30" bolt gun's.[I kicked there asses].I used his 123 ammo.
I also have a benchmark 18" rifle that shoots great.
I shoot the "Precision Firearms" in a 1000Y match at "Rattlesnake"[considered one of the most windy ranges in US] I did OK but I can not read the wind well enough to use that round at 1000Y.
I do not even shoot these gun's at 100Y because all the rounds go in the same hole; boring.

It came.  Hmmmm, not sure what I was expecting for the price.  Looks to be decent.  I certainly didn't spend "too much"....heck, it was $195 and was fluted.

There is definitely some tuning to do. Feed ramps look rough and will be polished.  A quick look down the pipe and it appears I can see horizontal marks from the reamer.  It's not like it's advertised as "hand lapped" so I'm not exactly upset.  

No finish,.....well I don't care about that because it was going to be media blasted and KG Gunkoted anyway.


As far as the inside....I've been doing the "JP Bore paste/Kroil" combo with felt pellets to polish/smooth out the inside.  I think it does "break in" the barrel faster and smooth out the throat and lead to less fouling.

This is not getting built up for at least 6 months so I'll have to report back later.

I took the plunge in December, and I finally got the rifle assembled and hit the range Saturday.  I qualified at the 750 yard line with 3 for 4. Not bad for the first time out in switching wind.  The lady made hits at 500 on her first time behind a scoped center fire rifle.

Next up, acquire some CFE.

LLRPF52 have you tried the 6.5PCC cartridge yet? If so how do you compare it to the 6.5G? more importantly in the shorter barrels. feeling the 6.5 fever just not sure which would fit the bill best.

I have not messed with the 6.5 PCC or 6.5 MPC, both of which are 6.5x.223 wildcats for those wondering.

The numbers look good on them, but I really like being able to use ready-made brass, and the full range of longer ogive projectiles that the shorter, fatter Grendel case allows, with more case capacity.

Especially when it comes to the 129gr class, the 123gr Scenar, and 123gr SMK, the Grendel is worth it, as well as the compound chamber, 30 degree shoulder, and the inherent accuracy that comes with those features.

It also doesn't hurt that there are at least 37 factory loads covering all your target practice, long range, and hunting needs.

It has been 70 days since Arfcom cost me money, and now I have something to show for it:



Alexander Arms 16" Lite Barrel.  Wasn't worried about the 9/16 thread because my can has a 3/4-20 thread and I just had to make an adapter.

At 100 yards:


Fired 3 shots at a tree to see if it worked
Bore sighted at 30 yards and fired 3 more shots, on center under the blue tape.
Top Center, first 10 shot group of Wolf Gold after bore sighting
Center, second group (9 shots) of Wolf Gold after adjusting
Bottom Right, Hornady 123 gr.  I already forget if they were the SST or AMAX
Bottom left, another 10 shot group of Wolf Gold

Wolf Gold At 300 yards


The group on the white paper is with no adjustment, the group on the target is with 5 MOA elevation.  I didn't have a tape measure, so the squares on the folded target are 1" each.

The Bad:

Wolf Gold blowing a bunch of primers out.  Did it with and without the silencer.  Out of 120 rounds probably ten of them like this.
The Hornady ammo did not.

Time to buy a 20MOA scope mount, and a pile of magazines, and a bigger pile of ammo

Something's going on with that PPU.

Is that the 110gr or 120gr load?

120gr

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/wolf-gold-65-grendel-ammo-120-grain-mpt-hp-p-3069.aspx

Wow, did anything else look funky on the brass?

Did you get a chance to check the OAL?  I like to know if that was the ammo or the rifle setup.

I just checked 2 different AA 18" fluted barrels, new, unfired, with 120gr PPU MPT.

The cartridges drop free after fully seating into the chamber, with no signs of rifling engagement into the ogive.

I measured at least 10 samples for COL, and they range from 2.228" to 2.238".

I'd be interested to see what speed those are producing, but I will not advise anyone to shoot a load that is known to drop or blow primers.

There was a bad lot of PPU/Wolf 120 grain HP BT/MPT ammo last year which also popped primers.  I probably could find the lot number but I'd be surprised if is the same lot especially if you bought the ammo recently.    It would be intersting if this ammo exhibited the same problem in another 6.5 Grendel.

Same for mine.

Mostly 2.236-2.237, shortest in one box was 2.224, longest was 2.238

MVs
2445fps
2403
2402
2386
2375

In the seven shots that I just fired for muzzle velocity (I had 911 on speed dial ) only two had marks at the ejector.

More pictures of the brass from yesterday
9 out of 120 with missing primers


Hornady 123gr SST, no damage

After a closer look on that last picture those rounds are way over pressure.


Now, the question is:  Is it due to being overloaded?  Or is it due to having too long an OAL?


Measure those rounds.


Either way, I wouldn't shoot those WOLF rounds anymore.  You are asking for a kaboom or at a minimum wrecking your new rifle.


EDIT: That top round is a perfect angle and shows just how deep the case head is extruding into the ejector pocket.  


Ditch those rounds.

EDIT 2: Also, a few of those bottom rounds are showing bent rims which means that extractor is pulling way too hard which means overpressure and the case is sticking to the walls from it.


Again, ditch those rounds.

Those speeds all make sense, so either the ones that blew primers had different charges in them, or the wrong powder, something isn't right.

Your COL measurements line up with mine, and it doesn't seem that you are jamming the lands, so that tells me something is up with several of the cartridges in that batch.

I personally haven't had any issues with factory PPU 120gr MPT, and it has been extremely accurate actually from several Lilja barrels.

It's looking like a bad lot to me.  There was some serious heat and pressure going on with that ejector extrusion, or maybe the brass is just really soft in those particular cases.  PPU is a lot softer than Hornady, and they use Large Rifle Primers for some reason.

I've never reloaded 6.5G and don't know what kind of powder you would be using.


is it pretty much "filled to the brim" or is there room?......as in room to double charge the brass?


Those rounds definitely look "hot" and overcharged.

You can't double-charge 6.5 Grendel, but you can over-charge with some of the faster-burning powders.

I don't know what powder the Serbs are using, but it still might be a brass alloy issue as well where they are dropping primers and flowing with a softer brass.

This is another reason I like the Lapua and Hornady brass, Lapua lasting the longest for sure.

What rail is that on that top gun?

Midwest Industries SS Gen II that I Cerakoted FDE, along with the rest of the gun.

I suppose I Will ask in this thread. Has anyone shot the Precision Firearms 6.5 Grendel ammo? I see they custom load a very nice selection of pills.

I don't reload, so I'm willing to drop the coin for some of their selection if it shoots well.I know they have a very good reputation with their builds, I'm guessing same holds true for their ammo?

Is there a reason in particular you want to use the Precision Firearms ammo? I burn up hornady A max and its very accurate and not pricey.

Yes, I have a lot of it.

The first time I shot it, I was amazed at how tight the ES was on the 123gr Scenar load from my 16", and I got .792" 4rd group at 100yds from a non-bedded, no accuracy work set-up.

2447
2451
2454
2450

2452fps average

You also get Lapua brass when you're done, which is worth a lot.

I have also shot the PF 123gr NCC, 123gr SMK, 120gr Lapua Scenar-L, and they are extremely accurate loads.  They go through the same hole at 100yds from a Lilja, Bartlein, or Krieger barrel.

PF has a lot of hunting loads too tipped with Barnes TSX and TTSX, Nosler BT, 129gr Nosler ABLR, and more.

No.

Barrel/Bolt/Mags are what you need to go 6.5 Grendel

Between you and Finslayer83 I've decided to go to the 6.5. This is my 16AA barreled side charger. Plans are to use one of my Larue MBT's but for now ill stick with my Geissele. The SWFA 10x is just a temporary solution.

Awaiting a vortex 4-14x44 MOA reticle to top it off. As soon as SWFA gets them in stock.

I am curious about a 20MOA mount. Will it hurt me using one if im shooting less than say 800yrds?

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Fantastic LRRP, thankyou. I look forward to trying some of these. This thread is the main reason I finally pulled the trigger on a Grendel build, and I am extremely happy with the choice, so thank you for that also.

How are the Satern 6.5g barrels and bolts from brownells?

Considering selling my lr308 and converting my current 18" 556 WOA upper to 6.5g since 308 ammo cost so much, even steel cased.

Also considering the Odin barrel with included bcg gas block and tube.

My buddy bought the 24" Saturn from Brownells and his shot good averaged .5-.75 MOA with factory match ammo

So I bought the 18" version and right out of the box it looked ruff so I grabbed the borescope and took a look.
It looked like the bore was threaded their were so many marks on it. So I calleded Brownells and they said give it a try if you don't like it send it back.

I took to the range and broke it in bench rest style shoot 1 then clean for the first 10 rds then I shot groups all with factory Hornady 123gr AMAX match ammo

I averaged 1.21 MOA for 7 groups so back it went to Brownells for a refund now I have a Lilja 319 that I'm going break-in and shoot groups tomorrow.

I don't want to say they suck this just my single experience

I wish I would've put a 20 MOA mount on my 16" 6.5 Grendel but I did buy a 20 MOA Aadmount for my 20" 6.5 Grendel Shilen.  I run out of elevation on my 16" at 800 yards but I don't like cranking my elevation to that extreme regularly.  With my 20" 6.5 Grendel I'm one complete revolution from bottom on my 6.5-20 Vortex Viper Mildot scope with 100 yard zero.  I have a Friend with a 24" & 18" 6.5 Grendels and we've been shooting at long range frequently.  My 16" 6.5 Grendel amazed me how well it shot at 800 yards.  I get a 20 MOA mount it will be shot further than 800 yards, I may shoot it at 1000 yards anyway and holdover using my mil reticle.

You got to have challenges in life why not give it a try.

I put a 20 MOA LaRue on my 20" holding my 3-12x50 Steiner. I bought the scope and it had another LaRue mount without the cant and no cantilever. I replaced it quick because I wanted the ability to use the elevation if needed.

Ended up picking up a rifle built on one from the EE. seller says it shoots 1 moa and he isn't the best shooter so hopefully it's ok. Read plenty of other positive reviews so I'm not too worried.

Man, you guys make me want to build on of these!  Off to do some research on barrels and parts.....geeesh!

I won two 600Y matches with "Precision" ammo[123g] It shoots .3 moa at 100Y with 24" Kreiger Precision barrel.

I finally got a chance to shoot my Grendel at 100yds to see what accuracy potential it had. I was pleasantly surprised that the load I had been putting thru it was very accurate.

I had been shooting it at 600yds and only shot it at shorter distances for function testing.

It shot consistent .5moa groups with the combo I was using.

IMR8208 under a 123SMK, Norma brass and a CCI BR4 primer.

18in Satern cut rifled barrel from Brownells, Seekins Handguard, Odinworks BCG, Vltor receiver on top of a Colt Service rifle Lower.

I bought parts from whoever had what I wanted right now, as I was not interested in waiting.

Pleasantly surprised it shoots as good as it does.

SY