User Panel
Posted: 10/20/2016 12:44:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: akethan]
Since the MOA Challenge entry thread is getting clogged up with questions and comments I thought we had better get an official discussion thread.
So feel free to post your nonofficial targets here along with any questions or comments. Remember this is still a tech thread so no trolling, call outs or GD style behavior. Please play nice or you will be locked out of this forum. Basic rules, targets and divisions. Keep it simple 5 shot groups, 5 groups per target 1 MOA = 100 Yards = 1.047" ––––––––-50 Yards = 0.5235" ––––––––-25 Yards = 0.26175" Top 25 for each division Separate list of 1 MOA shooters and a separate list for .5 MOA shooters. REMEMBER this, all 5 groups of 5 shots must AVERAGE 1 MOA to make the list and claim the title of being a 1 MOA shooter. Doing one .99" group and four 1.5" groups does not equal a 1 MOA shooter, it means you got lucky once and you are a 1.398 MOA shooter (assuming a 100 yard target) This is a challenge but don't be afraid to try it out and post, every possible rifle style has been listed with a category and a distance. It's all in good fun and to be honest about your abilities. With that in mind here are the rules. 1. ONE sheet of paper, 8.5”x11” preferred and it MUST HAVE ALL 5 targets. Meaning 1 sheet of paper with FIVE targets. NO INDIVIDUAL TARGETS. THEY WILL NOT COUNT. 2. On that 1 sheet of paper with 5 targets you shoot 5 groups of 5 shots each. (In one day) 3. Each group is measured OUTSIDE GREASE RING TO OUTSIDE GREASE RING with calipers (preferred) or tape rule in inches. Then subtract the diameter of one bullet IE if your shooting a .223 and your 5 shot group measures 1.13" you will subtract 0.224" to get a group of 0.906". If you are shooting a .22lr you will subtract 0.223", for a 308 you will subtract 0.308" (Remember- the more precise your measurement the better) Some common measurements: .172" - .17 HMR .223" - .22 Short, Long, Long Rifle .224" - .223 Remington, .22 WMR, .22 Hornet .243" - .243 Winchester .284" - 7mm-08 Remington, 7mm Mag .308" - .308 Winchester, .30-06, .300 Mag .311" - 7.62x39 Soviet, .303 British .338" - .338 Mag 4. NO MECHANICAL REST/SLED, NO VICE OR SIMILAR DEVICE THAT SUPPORTS THE ENITRE RIFLE, NO SHOOTING JACKETS, NO STRAPPING THE GUN INTO ANYTHING, NO LARGE REAR SANDBAG ** OR REST. SHOOTER MUST HAVE POSITIVE CONTROL OF RIFLE. THE POINT IS TO SEE HOW GOOD YOU SHOOT, NOT HOW WELL YOU CAN MOUNT IT IN A MACHINE. 5. OK TO USE sandbag, rest, ruck, bipod, rock with a hat, sling etc. on forearm of the rifle. **Will be OK to use a small rear sandbag (ie: sand sock or squeeze bag) or bean bag that must require constant hand pressure to maintain hold on target. IE. Can NOT sandbag gun in place. Shooter must maintain positive control of rifle. No formed or V-shaped rests/bags Some approved bags Triad Red Tac Triad Wedgie CrossTac Squeeze bag Accuracy First shooting bag 6. Shooting position is up to you, sitting, standing, prone. 7. Posting: 1st picture of target set at the range you are shooting. If you are shooting more than one rifle at the same range using the same pic is okay. 2nd picture with 5 groups of 5 shots each, next to them write down group size. 3rd picture with calipers (or tape rule) left in place over BEST group. 4th picture of rifle and shooting setup (ie. Sandbag, prone and so on). Post all4 pics and also type in the post your 5 group sizes and what the average is. IE. .99”, 1.5”, 1.5”, 1.5”, 1.5” add them up, equals 6.99” and divide by five. So 6.99/5 = 1.398” You can use the MOA formula, either way I will check the math and post the MOA on the result list. For those of you who would like to use ontarget, http://ontargetshooting.com/ Also type up specs of your rifle and ammo IE. Rem 700 with 168gr Federal SMK or Colt AR15 18" with Wolf 55gr FMJ or AK with 125gr Hand Loads PLEASE INCLUDE AMMO USED *** Please include result at the end of your post in the final format: Division you wish to be listed under with range, User_Name: Rifle Manufacturer and caliber - notable customizations- Scope- Ammo. Groups: 1"/2"/3"/4"/5" = avg. 3" = .287 MOA If you do not post in this format or leave anything out your post will not be included. 8. In each division you can only have your name up once per gun. Meaning that if you shoot the Iron Sight 22lr with your 10/22 and average a 1.65” group and lets say place 4th. If you use that same gun and do worse, even if you would place better then someone else it will not count for your group. Best group counts. Now if you then shoot Iron Sight 22lr with your M&P 15-22 and shoot better, say 1.25” average groups and place 2nd. Both that score and the 10/22 score will remain. Different guns will be allowed for different group rankings within a division. Best group counts. This also goes for the 1 MOA list. Meaning only your best MOA will be ranked on the 1 MOA list BUT if you also shoot 1 MOA or less with a different rifle, that will also count and your name will be added to the list for each different rifle you shoot 1 MOA or less with. 9. Remember, this is NOT a Bullseye challenge, it's a Groups challenge. 10. Any and all ammo is fine I don't care if you use Factory loads or your super secret Hand Load that Moses gave you. 11. Ties in average will go to the shooter with the smallest group. Service Division (AR/AK/FAL/M1A1 etc style weapons) Iron sights at 50 yards Non-Magnified Optic at 50 yards SPR Division (AR/AK/FAL/M1A etc WITH magnified optics) **See rule 5 100 yards Bolt Division with magnified optics (any precision gun) ** See rule 5 100 yards And for cheapness a 22lr Division Any 22lr rifle with iron sights at 25 yards Any 22lr rifle with non-magnified optic at 50 yards Any 22lr rifle with magnified optic at 50 yards Any 22lr rifle with magnified optic at 100 yards Misc Small Bore Division Any .17HMR/.17HM2/.17Fireball/.22WMR/.22 Hornet etc etc etc with any sighting system (Irons/nonmagnified/magnified) at 100 yards **See Rule 5 Unlimited Division Catch-all class for anyone wishing to use a lead-sled, large sandbag set-up, or other assisting device prohibited from the other classes. 50yd minimum for non magnified optic rifles and 100 yd minimum for magnified optics of all calibers. Does not qualify you for MOA shooter list, but will be recognized as an MOA rifle owner. Further more if you have shot the same setup and are listed in a class you will not be eligible for unlimited. Let's not turn this into a full blown bench rest shoot. Click to download target Downloadable target Small BFL Target Modified 1MOA All Day Target MUAD hosted MOA BFL Grid target LaRue hosted. MOA formula How many MOA equal 2 inches at 200 yards? (inches / yards) x 100 = MOA (2 inches / 200 yards) x 100 = 1 MOA This is for those that want to put up an honest effort and show what they can do! If you post a placeholder for a future attempt, be sure and notify me if you are not updated! If entries start coming in and you post your results back on an earlier page, I might miss it if you don't point it out. |
|
|
Akethan,
Your UU 308 entry ... Did you shoot from the top down? Just curious why 1st group was in the middle And why it got tighter as you shot ML |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
|
My last post in the challenge thread might have left one to consider not scoring it until I shoot it post load development... However, my divorce has gotten to a point where I removed all firearms from the house and will not be shooting it again for a few months to a year..
With that being said, can my old groups be replaced by my new groups in the charts? https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/-ARFCOM-1-MOA-ALL-DAY-LONG-Challenge-/17-51/&page=29#i96585 |
|
|
|
Reduce Spending, Limit Government, Increase Personal Freedom
|
Originally Posted By patchouli:
Can I use the cabelas rear bag? It is same size as triad wedgie (I don't have the triad) Here it is next to crosstac squeeze bag https://i.imgur.com/VhLMiSW.jpg https://i.imgur.com/g4WkaPC.jpg View Quote |
|
|
Reduce Spending, Limit Government, Increase Personal Freedom
|
I'm hoping for more entries once people build rifles this year. Especially with the new custom bolt gun actions coming out. I've ordered a custom action and barrel from the same smith that turned my RPR barrel.
|
|
|
Hmmmm, LaRue barrels still hold SPR Division 7 of the Top 11 ...
Apparently my barrels work well even when skinned down to a carry-able diameter. Bolt actions better look out. |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
|
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
My life is my own. |
Originally Posted By patchouli:
El cheapos are accurate as hell too. Virtually every modern machined gun is capable. Johnnyreloading on YouTube is using a 220 dollar Thompson bolt gun to shoot half moa. My cheap brownells bbl is shooting sub moa even during the randomness of load development (as seen below). https://i.imgur.com/Ja53AC4.jpg We are truly in the salad days of guns! It's great. As for the list here, there are some on it that are proven fibbers and then there are tons more people shooting it that want to impress their manufacturer's owner. Maybe they'll get something out of it. Or maybe just for internet high fives. Fun to shoot anyway View Quote |
|
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
My life is my own. |
I don't see it mentioned in the rules --
1. Do the ranges specified for division constitute minimum range or ONLY range? In other words can I choose to shoot the challenge at 200yd and calculate MOA accordingly? I feel I can measure more precisely when getting into the 1/2 MOA range if they aren't all on top of each other like at 100. 2. I assume that for calculation (I'm using OnTarget) we can use actual rather than nominal range for calculation? My club's "100yd" line ranges at 104.2yd from the front of the shooting bench to the target stands, 198yd to the 200yd line stands and 304 to the 300yd stands. [Removed question 3 and photos to move to the main thread] |
|
|
Originally Posted By Keyst0ne:
I don't see it mentioned in the rules -- 1. Do the ranges specified for division constitute minimum range or ONLY range? In other words can I choose to shoot the challenge at 200yd and calculate MOA accordingly? I feel I can measure more precisely when getting into the 1/2 MOA range if they aren't all on top of each other like at 100. 2. I assume that for calculation (I'm using OnTarget) we can use actual rather than nominal range for calculation? My club's "100yd" line ranges at 104.2yd from the front of the shooting bench to the target stands, 198yd to the 200yd line stands and 304 to the 300yd stands. 3. Finally, I'm using graph paper with 0.1" gradations -- is a tape measure or caliper picture still required? https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-33GHG7s/0/ae59f8f9/L/i-33GHG7s-L.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6Zq4NNS/0/6c78c39a/M/i-6Zq4NNS-M.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xCFR2RQ/0/0a66f8d7/M/i-xCFR2RQ-M.jpg View Quote What trigger do you have in your gun? What barrel is it and who finished it? Your target height seems extreme from the picture. Is it needed due to the range set up? Do you see sway in the target? Great shooting and nice looking rifle. |
|
|
Originally Posted By JessBrie:
What trigger do you have in your gun? Stock Accuracy International 2-stage trigger, 3.5lb 1st stage, 12oz 2nd stage. Trigger quality > trigger weight What barrel is it and who finished it? Accurate Ordinance 26" Bartlein Your target height seems extreme from the picture. Is it needed due to the range set up? Do you see sway in the target? Target stands are the clubs -- I believe the intent is to ensure that any rifle round impacts the 300yd berm regardless of how much it drops after a 100yd zero. It's not an issue in practice, and there are wedges to prevent rocking. Great shooting and nice looking rifle.Thanks! View Quote |
|
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
LaRue 7.62 barrel - Five 5-shot groups one after another View Quote |
|
|
^^^
I asked the same question The single group was the first group shot, then turrets were moved to sight it in, then two burners were slung into the background to "set" the reticle. Then the four 5-shot groups followed. ML |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
I don't care who you are back in the world.
WI, USA
|
@LaRue_Tactical
The link for your 1 MOA target is dead. And it doesn't download as a PDF when I visit your site. How can I get a copy of this target? |
Damn! This some good ass cheese!
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
How often do they update the list?
I was on it, but now I am not... Did things change?? Whaditi miss! |
|
|
I've got a few barrels coming in and should be able to make another series of entries. My Krieger on my DMR is shot out so I will reshoot once I replace it.
I also have a Valkyrie barrel from JP coming. And a 6.5 CM from PVA. |
|
|
|
@JessBrie
From the main MOA thread: "Do you notice much for mirage shift with the suppressor? What cover are you using and does it seem to help with heat dissipation or only as a protection against touching the hot can?" I use a silencerco cover (here). I never really shoot my rifle enough to get the can crazy hot. I mostly use the cover to help protect it from scratches etc. They do help with mirage, but I've never run it hard enough to get into serious mirage issues. They are basically an insulator...so once the can gets hot it stays hot longer. So no, it does not help with dissipating heat...it makes it worse. That's the downside. They do help you remove the can without burning your hand though. |
|
"Free men are not equal. Equal men are not free.” -Unknown
“An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Lt.Col. Jeff Cooper |
Originally Posted By newBMowner:
@JessBrie From the main MOA thread: "Do you notice much for mirage shift with the suppressor? What cover are you using and does it seem to help with heat dissipation or only as a protection against touching the hot can?" I use a silencerco cover (here). I never really shoot my rifle enough to get the can crazy hot. I mostly use the cover to help protect it from scratches etc. They do help with mirage, but I've never run it hard enough to get into serious mirage issues. They are basically an insulator...so once the can gets hot it stays hot longer. So no, it does not help with dissipating heat...it makes it worse. That's the downside. They do help you remove the can without burning your hand though. View Quote |
|
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
|
Something may be askew with the measuring on that last group, over in the official thread.
|
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
|
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Something may be askew with the measuring on that last group, over in the official thread. View Quote Attached File |
|
|
Perhaps his printer isn't calibrated ?
|
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
|
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Perhaps his printer isn't calibrated ? View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By Reorx:
Perhaps... but that page is 8.5 inches wide and 14 boxes wide (printed) with 1.5 box (width) margins on the right and left (estimated) for a total of 17 boxes wide for the page (left edge to right edge)... 17 boxes x 1/2 inch (per box) = 8.5 inches! The calibration seems to be reasonably "on the money" to me... just sayin'... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Reorx:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Perhaps his printer isn't calibrated ? |
|
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
|
|
Center-to-center minus bullet diameter? My guess as to why they're wrong.
|
|
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
#FreeBradders "Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara |
"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it." - Capt. W. F. Call, Texas Ranger
http://www.theboxotruth.com/ Shooting Stuff Is Fun |
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
No, outer edge to outer edge, minus bullet diameter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Center-to-center minus bullet diameter? https://instagram.com/p/BgwCiW0jiPe/ . |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Something may be askew with the measuring on that last group, over in the official thread. View Quote |
|
Back the Blue
1,000,000 view! Certified LaRue Armorer NRA Benefactor, Team Ranstad, Tennessee Squire |
Originally Posted By Defender3: Maybe he used the wrong bullet diameter or entered the wrong grid distance in the program? I measured them in OnTarget and came up with a wider spread and a larger overall MOA. At least he's trying! View Quote . |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Just to add to what ever I have said above..remember mags and ammo are consumables. Continue buying and using quality consumables through out the process.
|
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hesitate to point it out as a few on here remember the young guy that went flippers over my off-the-cuff measuring comment a few years back. . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Defender3: Maybe he used the wrong bullet diameter or entered the wrong grid distance in the program? I measured them in OnTarget and came up with a wider spread and a larger overall MOA. At least he's trying! . |
|
Back the Blue
1,000,000 view! Certified LaRue Armorer NRA Benefactor, Team Ranstad, Tennessee Squire |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
There is a reason the dinosaurs are extinct ... Larue forgot to feed them? . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
|
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
There is a reason the dinosaurs are extinct ... . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
My life is my own. |
Hard to feed critters when you go from cracking the whip to doing fun airplane stuff
|
|
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
My life is my own. |
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Hard to feed critters when you go from cracking the whip to doing fun airplane stuff View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Originally Posted By sparkyD:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By JessBrie:
A week ago you said placeholder bump in the official thread. Why are there no groups yet? Larue forgot to feed them? . |
|
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
|
Back the Blue
1,000,000 view! Certified LaRue Armorer NRA Benefactor, Team Ranstad, Tennessee Squire |
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.