TL/PR...  Too Long Please Read...

So I'm wanting to put up a 2m/70cm Base Station type Antenna.

I think I've mentioned it before.  I have a TV tower next to the house. I'd guess it was 20-25'.  
Currently it has a 8' pipe on top of it with my 5Ghz UBNT Subscriber Unit for my fixed wireless internet service.

Had to put it up on that pipe to get it to fire over the neighbors tree and have a good NLOS to the AP on my ISP's tower.

Now getting into Amateur radio, I picked up a seemingly ok 2m Mobile antenna, but I find myself wanting a bigger/better antenna on the house.  
I read more than one person on here say, "Height is Might"...  Seems proven from everything I've seen.

I have several repeaters in various directions I'd like to reach reliably and maybe get some 2m Simplex action going.
I think with a good antenna setup that should not be an unreasonable ask.

1st question.  What 2m Base Antenna should I look at?  I don't really want to build one at this time, I'd rather buy one and get on the air.

I've looked at models from Diamond, MFJ, Comet and a few others.  Just when I think I've found the one I want, I see a few good reviews then more negative reviews or negative YouTube vids than I'm really comfortable with.  Two issues I've seen are poor SWR due to cold or broken solder joints at various points inside and or leakage of the tubing that the antenna is in...

2nd question or ask?

Could any of you that have towers post pics of the wiring, not so much the antenna but, specially around the base, showing any grounding and where it comes off the tower and goes into the house? Did you use any type of Box or Enclosure on the Tower or building wall?  Lightning Protectors???

I'm thinking about getting a medium sized enclosure that has a plate mounted in the back of it, you mount your lightning protectors in there, the cable from the Antenna comes down into that box, to the LP, then back out and into the basement or house.

The plate in the box would have a pretty good ground strap coming off of it and connecting to one or more of the 3+ ground rods.

I know it'll never be perfect, but I want to do the best setup I can.  
Also, I think I'm going to build a bench or 6' table right along the wall in my basement where the cables come off the tower and in, to keep the co-ax runs as short as possible, plus it will be a major pain and about 30+ feet and a wall and ceiling to deal with.

Define "best".

You can spend thousands on an LMR Telewave or whatever antenna, heliax, grounding/surge suppression system, etc.

Well being that I'm asking the type of questions I am, that shows how much I know, or don't know...

I want to do it the best I can with poor man's money if that makes sense...

Someone is always a topper and has fuck you money to blow on whatever the topic ir hobby is..  

I'm not that that guy.

I have to buy an Antenne one week, then another week or two by a enclosure and lightning protecters or few runs of coax, a meter, etc, etc, etc...

I just spent 500 (Mere pennies to the Arfcom Affluent I know) at Powerworkx.com on wire, fusible links, anderson power poles, crimpers and a 110ac to DC power supply and a few other things ill use between my 2 vehicles and my home "Shack"....

So, im trying to build it as best as I can on my measly income, not "The Best" that can be had, if that makes sense...

Not sure how exactly to quantify it..

There really is no such thing as a 'perfect setup'...

FM? SSB? Omni? Beam?

Mission parameters dictate the equipment.

What is your intention?



I'm a fan of omnidirectional antennas, because there's less to mess with, but if you're going after DX, then you'll want a yagi/beam, which is directional.


LMR400 is a good place to start.. Make sure you know how to weatherproof your connectors ...

At this point I'm not a 100% sure.

95% of the time I talk voice on one of three repeaters around the 147 range... Mostly 147.030
On Mondays we have a club net on the one I mentioned

Then on Thursdays I talk voice, Simplex 146.535.  However, not do well because of my setup, antennas and height or lack of at this point.
Because of that, Tonight I drove into town and up on a bit of a hill.

It nothing huge, but it helped and I was able to hear 14 other folks, many clear as hell, some in and out, a few completely in the mud, I could tell they were transmitting, but it was not understandable.

I want to be able to talk,  hit the repeaters with as close to "full quieting" as I can and receive as good from inside my house...

So I'm wanting to build an antenna/tower setup to try and accomplish that.

That is why I asked for recommendation and pics of folks wiring.

I figure, omni, straight pole, beam, jpipe, loop or whatever the wire coming down and into the building is going to be Similar, not exactly the same, but similar in concept.

I wanted to see how others did it.

Height is good, but understand that once you get above the ground clutter, getting noticeable improvement generally means doubling the height. There are practical reasons why the 40 to 50 foot tower was mostly the standard for TV reception for several decades, and amateur radio is subject to the same physics, at least if we're talking about VHF. With the longer wavelengths, HF horizontal antennas interact with the ground which changes the takeoff angle of signals, so particular heights may be desirable on HF (and 6 meters).

As far as something low cost that should get you reasonable performance, I'd just look at a Tram 1480, with some reasonable feedline depending on how long the run is.

OP this is often the case and it makes it hard to get into radio. Get you a Comet GP-3 and some LMR400. Try to keep your run under 100'. Under 50' is more better.

1^st rule of ham radio: Don't let the "perfect" get in the way of the "opearable".

The antenna can be mounted three or so feet off the side of the tower with standoff brackets. We did this with several of our repeaters back during the '70s and '80s.
There will be a "dead zone" in one direction where the tower shades the antenna. It's not completely dead, but the signal is weaker. Just pick a direction where there's the least activity.

Old school +1 on the suggestions for either a Tram or Comet base station antenna and some LMR400 feedline. On a 25 foot tower this will probably put you in the 90th percentile for most VHF base station operators. This is a very nice "KISS" solution and will likely meet all your immediate needs. More importantly, it will tell you where you stand in the grand scheme of things. Other than serious contesters or DX chasers, few people need more than this. And you are going to want an omnidirectional solution like this no matter what. Once you see how this works for you, then you can consider whether or not you want to go higher, or develop a more powerful, directional type capability.

Some people might knock them for whatever reasons, but my first 2-meter base antenna was a homemade copper J-pole up on a 40 tower.  It worked fine.  I built another one for a new Ham and he used it mounted to the peak of his 2-story condo.  It worked fine.

J poles are not good performing antennas, you generally have better results from a simple 1/4 wave ground plane. At the price of copper these days you could probably just buy a Tram dual band, which would have a noticeable increase in gain especially on 70cm, and no issues with tuning or galvanic corrosion down the road.

The Tram 1480 suggested is great one, and I've also use the Comet GP-1 and GP-3. I wouldn't go much bigger than any of these.
(Comet has the GP-9 that's 17 feet!)

Being pragmatic, a solid antenna like one of these, as high as you can practically make it (which on top of the tower you have)
and you've done your best. If you want to go past that then it's a lot more money on a much higher tower. No need to complicate it.

I put a Diamond CP22E on two 5ft sections of black iron pipe set in concrete in a Homer bucket with LMR400 to a 50w Yaesu mobile radio. I could reach repeaters over 100mi away.

Total setup was around $100 w/o radio in 2014.

See?

I have an X300NA on a 30ft mast and it works great. I don't think directional vhf antennas are very popular as a general purpose antennas, at least around here.

J-poles work great if you feed them properly. Most designs just attach coax at the 50 ohm impedance point, and then recommend a choke between the antenna and radio. If you add a 1/4 wave coaxial balun to the feed, and move the feedpoint up on the stub to the 200 ohm point they behave much better.
Just my experience, YMMV.

It helps if you do that, it's better if you just use a coaxial 1/4 wave shorted section instead of parallel line which actually isn't bad. At best you're still getting no better than 1/4 wave performance in a 3/4 wave tall antenna.

Gamma is talking about theoretical gain, not practical application

Unless you have the copper sitting around a J-Pole just isn't worth it at todays pricing.

They don’t have to be made of copper, I make mine out of 102” CB whips.
This is an old photo of a colinear J-pole I built years ago out of one. Both elements are made from one 102” whip. No copper other than the coaxial balun rolled up under the feedpoint.


Phasing stub I made for between the elements.

My setup...

Comet GP9 on a 10' pole using a stout gable mount.

DX Engineering junction box with a backplane.

Poly Phaser lightning arrestor. Tied to a ground rod directly below.

LMR400.

Shack is in the bedroom by the window.

Have a HDBX-40 tower waiting to be put up.

Attached File

I am a fan of a wire SlimJim that you can attach to paracord and pull it up to the top of a big tree. You don't get much in the way of gain, but if you have a 70-100 foot tree, it more than makes up for it and it costs pennies to make but you probably need an antenna analyzer to tune it.

That antenna, or the Diamond and Tram versions of it are what I would recommend. I have a Tram 1481 on my secondary station.

That GP9 has got some serious "ears".  I use it for a scanner antenna also and it will pick up stuff from WAY further out than my discone or Arrow 2m Yagi.

Highly recommend.

My Diamond X50A is a beast of a 2m/70cm antenna.

I used a J-Pole for years because it was easy to make, rugged, and back then could be built for ~$10.
Would another antenna have performed better? I don't know because when I pulled the plug on UHF/VHF it was still working fine so I gave it to a newbie Tech.

Nice, thats kinda what I was looking for.
Antenna,
Mount
Wire
Lightning protection
Gound rod
Box
Etc..

The GP9 is one of the antennas I've been eyeballing..  My two hold ups on it are (like almost every antenna I read reviews on are) 1/2 the folks say its the best thing ever, the other half say its got crappy swr, cold solder joints or it leaks and needs sealed...  Maybe I'm cheap, but for that money I expect more.

2nd I worry about how flimsy antennas of that height/length are..  I've never had anything even close, so it'll take some getting used too...

I had similar trepidations about the GP9.  When it came time to assemble I took it down to parade rest and checked all the solder joints.  All was well.  Made sure to use dielectric grease to lube the o-rings when assembling.  So far it has been a tough antenna.  Tolerates wind well.  No leaks.  Been up there two years now I think.

The SWR is good within the specified frequency range.  Also some nice low spots in the 800mhz range that makes it good as a scanner antenna.  One thing to keep in mind, is that a high gain omni gets its gain from having multiple elements tuned to the same frequency.  In this case 4 x 5/8wave elements (I think).  This will narrow your band width.  You sacrifice band with for more gain.  In the case of this antenna, a LOT of gain.

ETA:  the GP9 is VERY cheap for what it is.  Commercial grade antennas with similar capabilities cost MANY times more.

Exactly my experience.  It served its purpose quite well and would probably work for the OP's needs, until something 'better' came along.  Building simple antennas and experimenting is a part of the hobby that I personally enjoy, but it's not everybody's thing.

I enjoy that a lot also, so maybe I'm just depriving others of experimentation, but I did the J pole thing and after a lot of goofing off with them ended up finding out they just aren't all that. Copper was not as expensive back then, and there weren't as many inexpensive better options readily available as there are now, and not the kind of info that's readily available online.

The side-mount dual element J pole thing wasn't bad for a side mount antenna with the expected directionality, and I made some coaxial fed UHF J poles that were ok, although they'd have been better if I'd have had an analyzer back then. Everything antennas is a lot easier with an analyzer.


One of the J poles I built was a collinear like that, the design based on the one in the ARRL antenna book, except it was made from 1/2" copper pipe. It went on a packet digipeater on a ~200 foot tall site. It was only there for about a month before we took it down and put a 1/4 wave ground plane back in its place, as the 1/4 wave beat it in performance. With the packet system it was readily apparent the performance difference.

I am going to be climbing my tower in the next week to try to figure out why the SWR went sky high on my GP9.  It has been up for a year with no problems until now.  It has about $20 worth of coax seal on the joints so I sure hope it isn't a leak.  I am trying to wait for a sunny day to see if it dries out and SWR drops, but sunny days are hard to come by around here lately.  It is fed with LMR400, and sealed well (at least I thought).  

For what its worth.

I don't recommend the tall, 3 section dual band antennas regardless of manufacturer. Too many issues with pattern skewing leading to poor performance, and ruggedness/reliability issues.

I did the same on the X300 I put up as well as getting the N connector version since that plug is waterproof and more durable.

Not to hijack the thread, but is there any antenna that can be mounted on top of a 35' aluminum flag pole?

Diamond X50A.

And it come with the hardware to do so. And is a phenomenal 2m/70cm antenna.

Its Cool, get on in here...  :)  
Your question is kinda related to mine anyway as I do have a tower next to my place, but its only like 20-25' tall and when whatever antenna I go with goes up, we will be putting up a 8' pole atop the tower then the Antenna on said pole to get it up as high as possible.

Is the pole you are talking about actually used for a flag?

From what I have seen a lot of these antenna use u-bolt clamps, not a lot different than I've seen under cars and trucks on the rear axle. Just need to make sure the Ubolt deal will fit around the Flag pole.  You may need to do some improvising and make yourself a bracket and stand off if the Flag pole is too big.

You'll want to secure the cable to the pole to keep it from waving in the wind and getting caught in the flag if it is used as a Flagpole.

Lastly, what will you do to get at the Antenna, at height?  
This is where it would be nice to have your own bucket truck or someone with one.

What hardware are you speaking of?  The typical u-bolt clamp attachment?  I would prefer something that I could thread into the top of the flagpole itself.

Thanks for letting me join in!

Yes, it will be used for a flag as well.

I plan to drill a hole and run the cable inside the flagpole to protect it.

Also, I made a hinged mount for the pole, so you can remove four bolts and two people can walk the pole down to ground level.

It could be adapted to do so, coax would have to run through the flagpole though. As the coax exits at the base of the antenna.

I'm using this @ about 40' Arrow Antenna
I have a POLYPHASER IS-B50HU-CO lighting arrester in a weird spot to easily disconnect from the base station and hook up my HT if I'm grilling or hanging out at the fire pit.
Using ABR-2213 feed line.
Can reach about 35 miles in all directions and reach 9 different repeaters with my FTM-300. pic is facing south and shows I'm below the ridge line a mile or so south.
I admit though I don't do a lot of UHF but when I do it's on the repeater systems. No problems ever.
edit to add; Nothing fancy on weather proofing, just the shrink wrap stuff for that pupose HRO sells. House entrance is a pvc bulkhead and 2 1/2' through a wall to the shack.

Attached File

This is almost exactly what I plan to do:



Ignore the F22A reference, it's not dual band.  Current plan is a Diamond X200A dual band antenna, about 8 ft long.

Questions:

- Where did you get the gable mount?
- Do you have any qualms about it holding up to the weight and/or torques imposed by the mast/antenna, especially during storms?
- What size mast and where did you get it?  I'm thinking 2" galvanized conduit 10' long.   ETA:  Actually it looks like you have two different masts.  Didn't think about that idea.
- Is your surge protector right at the base of the mast?  Then the coax goes right into the house?  What I'm reading is to ground the mast, take the coax to near ground, then ground it to the ground rod, then into the house.  Don't know which way I'll go.

Thanks!

That setup makes the surge protector almost meaningless, it's too far away from ground to do much. If you want surge protection the coax should go down to ground level to a surge protector and ground system.

That's exactly what Dave Casler said in a video I watched a couple days ago.  I've ordered the ARRL grounding book, it will be interesting to see what it shows, if anything.


ETA:  I noted that DXEngineering has changed their photos of how their coax grounding brackets should be used.  Here is the grounding bracket I was planning to use:  https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-cgb-200

Below is what one of their current pictures show:



Just a couple days ago, they had pictures showing this coax grounding bracket as having surge protectors mounted on it.  Those pictures no longer exist.

The inference I get from this is that mounting the surge protectors high up is not good practice and they stopped showing it.

FWIW.