Ok everyone.  A little background.  I finally got my general last week and now it is time to pick out a HF rig.  

I had initially though about getting an Icom IC-7200 and figured that with everything I would be in a system about $1200 with power supply, tuner and antenna stuff.  I am a firm believer in the cry once when it comes to firearms and I guess that this carries over to the radio world as well.

With that said I was at a local ham's shack yesterday and he showed me his Flex 3000 and it was amazing seeing the ease of tuning within a band and just how nicely the GUI was laid out.  I thought that this is really cool setup. After doing some more reading last night I think that it is a really solid platform that for a few hundred more can get me on the air with more of a mid range rig.

One of the concerns that I have is that with the introduction of the new 6000 series I see that the fire-wire interface on the 3000 is not long for this world.  With that said would you all be concerned that you were buying older generation SDR platform.  There is no way that I will be able to spring for a 6000 at this time or for the next couple of years so now I need to figure out if I will be happy with a 3000 for the next several years.

My intent would be is that this would be primary radio and somewhere down the road I would pick up an all in wonder rig like a used IC-706MKIIg or a IC-7000 for a second HF radio to add to an ecom setup.

So my question to you all is ----- if you got to spend my money would you cry once and pick up the flex 3000?

I have a 7200 now and have been drooling over the Flex 1500 with an amp, or a Flex 3000.  What a cool GUI!  

Just pay close attention to the computer requirements for the Flex radios.  It'd be easy to run out of computing horsepower with all the eye candy turned on.

Power SDR v2.6.4 and the Flex 3000 work perfectly right now. There are no issues for me....CW, SSB, Digital modes all work very well for me.

SmartSDR right now is beta.....and that is being kind in describing it. Most of the features and functions that make the Flex what it is just don't work yet with new SmartSDR.  Its going to be at least a year or more for Flex to get it right. Flex is a small company and it took them years to get PowerSDR working and I don't see
them moving any faster with the new SmartSDR

I would not hesitate on buying a new Flex 3000. Having said that, I am not sure if an SDR radio is the best choice for your first radio.

You will need a quad core pc with a good video card and at least 8gb of RAM. Anything less is a recipe for disaster, as all of the heavy lifting is done by the computer.

You also have to be very knowledgeable with using a computer, as it requires a considerable amount of knowledge to get a Flex configured. The Flex 3000 and PowerSDR is not "set and forget". You will find yourself tinkering with it all of the time.

Your concerns about firewire have really nothing to do with decision on whether you should buy a Flex 3000 or not. I just don't think its a good first radio for most.

I will buy an new 6000 series Flex sometime in the future, but until then I believe my Flex 3000 will do just fine.

Not me.


Not knocking Flex.......everything I read says Flex is a very nice radio.  But I don't want to be tied to a computer.

I agree with "buy once cry once", but I wanted a self contained radio.  Most any modern rig can be controlled with your computer (HRD) if you want to do that, but with a self contained radio, you don't have to use a computer to get on the air.

But I'm not a computer guy.  That's just me.  Others will disagree, and think I'm crazy.  

The Flex 3000 is a mature product and ready for you to fully use now.  The 6000 series still has many features in development and in my opinion, probably still has a few bugs to be worked out as things evolve.  I looked at the Flex 5000 years ago and didn't get one because I thought it wasn't quite ready for prime time.  Almost two years ago I bought one because I felt it was finally mature, knowing in the back of my mind that a new one was right around the corner.  Well there is a new one now, and I'm still 100% happy with my 5000.  Not to mention the price difference!  Get the 3000 if you like it and don't look back.  They're great rigs.

ETA:  My dad got his license recently and picked a new IC-7100 for his first rig.  He likes it but really liked my Flex when he saw it and wished he would have gotten a 3000.  He asked me why I didn't recommend a 3000 when he was looking at rigs and I said, "I did, but you said you didn't want a SDR"...

+1000

Same here
Something majical about headphones and tuning around with the VFO knob

I know the flex is a very capable machine
But its not for me

I'm old school
Keep ur glock sonny
I'll stick with my  ancient 1911

I understand after playing with it for a while that this is not a traditional HF radio and won't operate as one.  I guess I see that as an advantage in my case as I beat keyboards during the day at a data center and right now the computers make more sense to me that the knobs and buttons on the radio.   Is your concern about a first radio more about the fighting with the computer or more on general operation?

1911 > glock
.45 > 9mm

Hey, I'm a progressive guy. A Renaissance man, really.

G21, all hopped up for .45 Super.  1120 fps with 230gn bullet.


And now, back to radios.

Sorry for the hijack.

Where is the ARRL rig matrix?

At the top was the K3, Flex, TS-590 (guess which one cost 1/2 of the others?)

Those are my three favorite rigs!  Guess which one I picked?  

Snip!



This might actually be a reason not to get a radio that needs a computer to function. It's all in that Yin / Yang-Hi Tech vs Hi Touch stuff.

My worry about any SDR radio is that you are one new version of Windows away from the radio not working.  I remember having a perfectly good printer at work that we had to discard because HP never came out with a driver for it for anything post XP.

Just saying.

This was exactly my concern with the 3000 being a mature platform with a depreciated fire-wire connection.  Does anyone have a serial mouse anymore?

I have several in a box in the garage, but I also have lots of other computer parts.  Even spare Firewire cards, so even after it's extinct I can still keep my Flex running.

RIGHT ON

I've killed big midwestern deer with 45 SUPER
It works great





I also agree with K-9bob

A hams first HF radio should be something simple and capable, like an IC-718, TS-480 etc.

HF is a whole new world, with much to lean...different modes, how every HF band's propagation patterns change during the days and seasons, etc.,etc.

When learning all this new stuff, they last thing you need is a super complex rig

More like this?  

yes  

I don't think that firewire cards or the potential future demise of Windows is really the issue here. Nothing is future proof anymore.  The only thing that might become a hindrance is, fewer and fewer new machines come with an integrated firewire port. That means you might have to buy a TI chipset firewire adapter. Again this is not the end of the world, so stop fretting over shit that may or may not happen.

Hell there are 5 year old HF rigs that you no can no longer get replacement parts for either, but yet people still buy them used. Nothing last forever and besides.....eBay is full of "vintage radios" that people are willing to buy at ridiculous prices all the time.

Don't buy the Flex thinking that its going to be the last radio you ever own, because its not.  SDR is not for everyone and most importantly its not the best choice for a first HF rig.

If you like computers and are willing to take the chance that you can live with a "depreciated fire-wire connection" then get the Flex. If not get a traditional HF radio with knobs.  

I have a Flex-1500 and really like it.

Mine also has Knobs, Buttons , and Sliders

That's a pretty broad brush!

There are plenty of "software-defined" radios on the market that operate on their own, built-in firmware - No PC required.

You can find an entry level HF radio for around $500.00 or so and a new Flex will set you back about $1750.00  This is my second Flex 3000 I have owned. I bought might first one back in 2011 and sold it in about 2 months and replaced it with a Kenwood TS-590S because PowerSDR sucked. The Flex 3000 hardware was perfect, but the software interface was just too damned buggy to make radio enjoyable for me.

Fast forward to May of 2013 and I bought a used Flex 3000 for about $1150 and had nothing but a wonderful time with SDR. Flex made major improvements with PowerSDR and my experience was a polar opposite of my first taste of PowerSDR. Lots of guys are dumping their Flex 3000 and 5000 radios in favor of the new 6000 series, so maybe you could find a used one like I did.

If you do get a Flex I would be happy to "elmer" you and save you hours of aggravation by hand holding and walking you through the initial setup. I am linking several web pages for you to look at, so you can get a feel for what you would be getting yourself into with a Flex. Again whatever you do, just remember that nothing is future proof and most importantly......this is another money sucking hobby that may cause your savings to be depleted.

Setting up our TX audio

Flex 3000 and 5000 Setup

I don't think this is a valid concern. You can still run Windows 3.1 software in a VM. And people do for controlling really old hardware.

While Firewire is becoming less popular, I don't think it's going to disappear. You can still get a serial card if you want to use a serial mouse with a modern computer.

Sorry, I forgot... a big Congratulations on the General!

This fellow has a very popular ham radio blog, and in fact, is a member here and posts on occasion.

http://k9zw.wordpress.com/

He has had running reviews with the Flex radios since they came out, and is at the head of the line for new products from them.  I'm sure a search on his site will turn up all you need to know and more about the Flex systems.

Since you are a new ham, I would still suggest an Icom IC-718, IC-7200, or other similar rig for a first radio.  The 7200s seem to be falling in price, and certainly the better features make it a better choice over the 718 for very little more money.  

I have set up two IC-7200s in our club radio room, replacing an IC-718 (formerly mine) and two older rigs.  After operating the first 7200 (my personal rig) on Field Day the club jumped on the chance to buy a second 7200.  The learning curve is very low, and the radio performs well.  

I would suggest getting that, with an eye toward getting one of the Flex radios later, if you still want to, as a main rig, and then use your IC-7200 for a portable rig.  Its weather resistance (not waterproof, but there are O-rings sealing the case) and rugged construction certainly makes it ideal for that.

I set up both radios with LDG IT-100 tuners, and set the menus in the radios to "tune on PTT", that is, the tuner senses SWR and only if that is over a certain threshold (1.7:1?) it will tune automatically in literally just a few seconds.  If below that threshold, no tuning and you may just operate.  While this sounds like it may cause problems, actually you will be surprised at how little it needs to tune, and once it "learns" the tunings for various frequencies on a given antenna, it tunes very quickly when you change bands or from one extreme edge of a band to another.

Others may recommend other tuners, I have no argument there.  But I will say my experience with the LDG automatic tuners is that if they won't tune an antenna on a particular frequency, then neither will a manual tuner.  I have some manual tuners and have tried this.

Power supply, one 7200, the club owned one, is powered by an Astron RS-50A, which also powers some other gear.  My personal 7200 in that station is powered by the Samlex SEC-1223 (23 amps continuous, 25 amps surge), a very popular power supply for 100 w SSB rigs.  At home I have the Samlex SEC-1235M, which is rated 30 amps continous, 35 amps surge, and has volt and amp meters.  It is more expensive, but I have it powering all of the 12 volt gear in my home station, a Ten-Tec Jupiter, LDG AT-1000Pro, backlight for SWR meter, and a VHF rig.  

The LDG tuners work by using a series of relays to switch capacitors and inductors in and out of the circuit to find a good match.  The relays latch in position and the tuner "goes to sleep" and draws almost no current.  The low current draw, small size, and light weight, no need for an SWR meter to tune make it ideal for a portable kit.  If an antenna is anywhere near reasonable for a given frequency, the LDG tuners will generally tune the SWR down to less than 1.3:1.

So all you need now is an antenna.  There are some other threads about antennas for new hams done recently, probably on the 2nd or 3rd page here.  But staying under $1200 is entirely doable.

I really don't worry about that...

It's easy enough to just have a separate computer running the older version of windows for the radio.
I would tend to think that FlexRadio being one of the bigger names in SDR would write new drivers.

This......all I really use my computer for is running the Flex 3000 and logging.

If I end up with a 6 or 8 core processor would it be enough to surf and be on the radio at the same time?

I do it with a quad core

Run the radio, logging, JT65 (or others) +lus all the virtual com and audio programs and surf all at the same time
I even occasionally have watched a show, or listened to music all at the same time.

I've used  an AMD 6-core and now use an 8-core and it's overkill.  Nice to have the reserve if I need it though.  I can run anything I want along with PowerSDR, though I haven't tried something real extreme.

Most definately the Flex3000 if the price is resonable for a used radio.  Unlikely.



I am biased.  I will admit it.  I have a Flex 5000 and a Flex 1500.



 

You can do it with a single core. You dont need an 8 core to have a browser open.



I am running mine on an old XP  computer single core with 1gig of ram.  It'll get changed out to a 4-core though just to upgrade.



I have an 8 core AMD as my main PC, but I dont use the flex radio on it.  I only use my Flex radios on the Flex-PC.





 

The main reason I moved my flex over to my main PC is because the new PC is quieter.
I am considering building a new PC for just the radio that is small and quiet (no fans etc).

I am running the PowerSDR, VAC v4.12, VSP Manager, and DDUtil to operate my Flex 3000. I often use FLDIGI, DM780, HRD Logbook, CW Skimmer and several other programs. Many times I have all of these programs running simultaneously and that will put a noticeable strain on the CPU.

My computer is a quad core 3.3 ghz AMD CPU with 8gb or RAM and my typical CPU usage is under 25% or so. When using a dual core PC, my processor usage was spiked to over 50% and then I would experience latency issues when running CW.

Don't be cheap....spend the money and buy enough computer if you plan on using a Flex.

Your doing a lot more than I do when I use it.  I don't use any of those programs.  It's just the radio.
Though when you start to throw in all that other stuff, you can't use a single core. You need that 4-core and a good video card to take the load off the CPU.
What annoys me is Flex does not have a built-in digital mode program like FLDIGI and or a good CW decoder.  I would do CW if I didn't have to use paddles and could use the keyboard instead, inside powerSDR.
The problem I've found myself with is, I dont have enough antennas.  With the 1500 and 5000, I need three HF antennas plus UHF VHF!
 

CW Skimmer is the program you want for CW decoding. You can download this for free and try it for a month. It costs $75.00 to register it should you like to keep it.

CWX inside PowerSDR will work just fine for transmit once you create some macros.  It is a macro utility inside PowerSDR that lets you key without a key/paddle.

CWX works good for contests or just trying to bag some DX if your speed is not good with a key/paddle. Its kind of klunly for a rag chew, but its doable in a pinch.

You also need to get VAC 4.12 and VSP Manager along with DDUtil to make everything happy. These allow you to run multiple programs at the same time without any issues.

I would be more than happy to share my settings should you need help.

I do appreciate the info on it.  I've run the programs before, CW Skimmer, and purchased VAC  for the $20 I think it was.
The problem I have is, my computer is a bit slow and it really starts to bog down when I Do much other than powerSDR.  It's time to upgrade.  After I do that, I'll likely start fussing with the digital modes. I'm looking at doing a Micro-ATX or something MINIATX with a dual core or Quad Core. It just is not a high priority as I have other projects to do.
My dad is one of the tech support contacts for FLEX radio systems =D