I'm in Portland, Oregon. With the Cascade volcano range, we're the first ones to get hit by rainfall coming from the pacific, and we get a lot of rain this time of the year.
Now with the nuclear leak in Japan, it looks like we'll be on the receiving side:
http://www.beyondnuclear.org/storage/post-images/fukushima%20fallout.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1299943100026
Do you guys know of a decent, affordable geiger counter that can be ordered online so I can keep tabs on the ambient radiation in the coming days (regardless of what the powers at be will tell us)? This way no more speculations either.

seriously? save your money, its BS to scare the sheep.

and to generate website hits.

There are valid reasons for owning radiation measuring equipment   -  But this isn't one of them.

I think this is a serious question if you are up to date on the reactors. The human body can only take 200 rads safely so anything higher than  that is not good. Who's to say that it won't get worse, it could VERY easily get worse and if it does you won't find a gieger counter left anywhere. I give credit to the original postor for being pro-active.

How do you know?

You dont want just a geiger counter, you want a dosimeter too! It will tell you how many rads you have been exposed to over a period time


 

Yes it is a good reason.

Realistically, the tiny amount of radiation that could be released, if any is ever released at all, is so small that the natural effects of it being diluted in concentration as it goes across the ocean and dispersed across a wide area means that there will be no noticable effect.

Some people are trying to make a buck by scaring the sheep into buying all manner of dubious products that offer some claim of protection. Baaa. Baaa.

history. Chernobyl, which was a level 7 event(the top of the scale, worst it can get) only had a fallout area about 2.5k miles. it was about 1,240 miles out from Chernobyl. radiation was detected as far west as Paris. those levels were not considered high enough to be dangerous to humans but there was a spike. the even in Japan is at most a level 4 event. you do realize its over 5k miles from japan to the west coast. so if a level 7 even only effected 1,200 miles out how is a level 4 going to go 5 times that far? again, its BS to scare the sheep to get them to spend money on something they will never need. do your homework and stop being a sheep.

forgot to add, the guy that "made" that map just also happens to sell geiger counters as well as other "fallout" supplies. he is after nothing more than to make a dollar.

I seriously think that more people will die from worry than radiation so if you want one get it and share the readings with your friends.




Impeach Obama so that We Won't Glow in the Dark.

Uhm.  That picture is fake, has no basis on anything real other than the map it's built out of is more or less correct.

I personally don't see a lot of use for a geiger counter in preps.  As was posted above, a dosimeter would be far more beneficial but still way way down on the list.  Whatever a geiger counter is going to pick up will already be irradiated.  Or in other words, you'll be able to quantify the fact that you're fuc––d.

Science!  How does it work!



One thing that OP and the folks who want to buy a Geiger counter need to answer first...



On the pic designed to get you riled up, how are we measuring those Rads! Rads! Rads!



Is is 900 per second?  Per day?  Per year?  



You could draw a similar map and title it "Japanese Penis in Blonde US Women!" and be just as scientific and scary...  Any of you guys want a Japanese penis detector for your preps? I have some great models going for just under 499.99.



Lots of reasons to own one or three.  Be prepared!  



 

A Japanese Penis detector would be very expensive due to the level of precision and accuracy needed.  It's possible this poor blond is not even aware what is happening

It may be needed some day.  http://www.nukepills.com/radiation-detector.htm  This site also sells the Potassium Iodide.

First, that map has been posted several times and is making its way around the internet, and is complete, utter and 100% garbage.  Disinformation.  Propaganda.  Some idiots photoshop fantasy.  There's another version of it with 1/10 the radiation levels by the way, which is also photoshop fantasy.

No instrument you could reasonably buy to measure radiation would allow you to be able to discern "fallout" from a Japanese reactor catastrophe in the US.

You have to understand the concept of "background radiation".  Radiation is all around us, all the time, everywhere.  Everything (including your own body) is radioactive, to greatly varying degrees.  Some things, like granite, are noticeably more radioactive than the general level of background radiation.  Daytime is higher radiation levels than night because the sun is a giant nuclear reactor after all, and is quite radioactive.  A member on the forums here related a humorous (in retrospect) story about radiation which might give you some perspective...  he was on a Navy carrier and worked near the reactor, so had to wear a film badge to measure his radiation exposure.  One day he got called in, as his film badge read far higher than his normal exposure and was above the exposure limits... so he was grilled to find out what happened.  In checking the date in question, the person realized that he was on liberty that day and had gone to the beach, and had inadvertently taken his film badge with him.  The lesson is that exposed to sunlight all day was a lot more radiation than being in the bowels of the ship near the reactor.

The only way to detect fallout from a far away nuclear incident is to collect a bunch of airborne particles, then analyze them looking at the specific energies of the different types of radiation, and the decay rates of those isotopes.  With that kind of in-depth scientific analysis, they can pinpoint radiation that is coming from fission by product isotopes of recent origin... which will be a small percentage of the overall radiation received.  They look at a sample over time and say for example... we counted 1000 gammas.  Of those, 24 were of some specific MeV energy that indicates radioactive Cesium.  So they monitor the sample over a long period of time, count the number of Cesium gammas, and calculate the decay rate to find the origination time for that cesium.  If the origination time was 4 years ago... its not from a recent reactor accident.  If it was from 2 weeks ago, it probably is.   This kind of analysis is how we found out about Soviet nuclear tests for example.

Some of the more serious hazards for lower level radioactive substances are lower energy beta or alpha emitters which aren't even detectable to common counters/radiation meters.  Iodine is a gas which would be effectively impossible to separate from background radiation with a typical meter.

That map you posted was for a very large Nuc warhead det, not a meltdown.

ETA, people want to sell crap to the panicky people. Thats how they make a living.
Break out your CC and get yourself a dosimeter, geiger counter, don't forget the calibration gear, some potassium iodate, and get yourself a nice fallout shelter while your a it.
Have fun.

Gimme a break 750 rad in cali....c'mon we nuked Japan twice with "full" explosions....there is no issue. If 750 rads hit the shore everyone would be dead.
Remember the old nuke rule: Double the distance = quarter the intensity. You could drop megatons and not worry about it.

Didn't we nuke Nevada 30 or so times already? (test fires)

There was a dosimeter thread a couple weeks ago that addressed the important points....

-an alarming dosimeter is the way to go. They let you know of spikes and measure the cumulative dose
-a survey meter gives you an idea of the rate...you can get behind shielding and see what is creeping in

If you are in a 500 rad environment, you're toast....that being said it's the intensity+duration that kills you. You can stand a medical xray because it's brief. When you are reading 50 rem on the survey meter and hang out for days....you will be bleeding from every opening shortly.

I just talked to a co-worker who was a nuke reactor engineer on a carrier. He said that he is not worried one bit. He said the stuff that has been released in Japan has a half life measured in days. If I see him panicking I will let you guys know!

Get some Litmus Paper.

No, it's not.

Attempting to measure radiation coming from a nuclear plant on the other side of the world - based on bogus "fallout projections" - and then distinguish it from normal background radiation - is just plain silly.

Are you saying that
- if there is a fallout of radioactive material on US soil starting 10 days after the first known leak in Japan
- and the radioactive particles landing on US soil accumulate every day past that
- and the additional radiation emitted by these particles is above or a significant fraction of the background radiation
then a geiger counter would not pick this up if a measurement is taken every day for the next 2 months or so?
This doesn't make sense. A geiger counter surely would pick it up.
2 cases here:
- In the most optimistic case there is no fallout or there is a fallout so insignificant that the additional radioactivity above an beyond the ambient one is not detectable. Then it cost me $200 to know that for sure.
- In the worst case, radiation goes up. It cost me $200 to know that, regarding of what powers at be would say to avoid any panic.

-

this fallout cumulates

- and if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump themselves in the ass when they hopped...

Not sure what Wayne's World has to do with all this

This is silly guys.

If you want a geiger counter for all sorts of interesting experiments and things you can learn with it ––-good.

If you want one as a mindless excuse to get something for your preps because of the Japan issue, buy some food or something having lasting value instead.

You have utterly unrealistic perceptions of the situation.

There were hundreds of ground burst nuclear weapons detonations done by the US in the pacific, as well as the Soviets and Chinese.  None of these singly, or even in large combinations, would have been detectable by walking around with a geiger counter in the USA.  Even the worst conceivable reactor accident could not possibly generate as much fallout as a single weapon detonation.

Background radiation is not a constant.  It's like listening to static on the radio, it's the same principle - noise.  Detecting a minuscule change in that noise on a signal level meter is just not going to happen - and even if it did, how would you know why it happened?  If you manage to detect a minuscule change in radiation levels, how would you know if it was fallout from the Japanese reactor, or the new concrete sidewalk or asphalt on the road nearby.  Or maybe the wind shifted and bround you a little more downwind from a coal fired power plant.  More importantly, why would it matter?

Maybe you need a geiger counter to learn the lesson that it's not going to do what you think it will do.  That's up to you.  They can be interesting and you'll probably learn a lot about radiation by having one.

So does anyone know of a reasonably priced dosimiter?  Not for the Japan thing, but I think it's a good idea given where I live –– a major nuclear reservation nearby where they made the plutonium for "the bomb" and a big portion of all current bombs, a live reactor and a half-dozen-odd other decommissioned ones, plus a bunch of nuclear waste that's sitting around rather than going to Yucca Mtn like it was supposed to...

The old "fountain pen" dosimeters need to be calibrated every once in a while - which adds quite a bit to their lifetime ownership cost. Also, the battery-powered recharger tends to be trouble-prone.

Although it ain't cheap, the Ludlum Model 25 fills both the dosimeter and survey meter roles, in a tiny, credit card-sized package:



Ludlum makes good stuff.

What are you trying to detect? Alphas. betas, gammas, neutrons?  If you do not know what you are looking for, spending money on "something" that will detect "something" is, IMHO, a waste.  Studying and learning about fission products and what can be released in a fuel element failure woud be more beneficial at first.  

To comment on the panic with buying potassium iodide pills and liquid... the mainland US should not worry about taking those for the Japanese accident.  Iodine in these pills/liquid is used to saturate the thyroad so that radioiodine (which can be released during a fuel element failure) cannot be absorbed as easily.  These pills/liquid would be taken daily.  Radioiodine or I-131, has a halflife of about 8 days.  The mainland US would not really have a reason to ingest these iodine items.  

Let's discuss something else.  There seems to be ALOT of misinformation when it comes to RADIATION.  Radiation is the ENERGY given off from nuclear particles as they decay or fission takes place.  The wind CANNOT change radiation direction (there are alot if very small "ifs" that would be inserted here... such as what kind of energy it is - beta, gamma, neutron, and what kind of non radioactive particles are in the air - water, dust, etc, and their attenuation abilities).  If radiation were to reach the west coast of the US from the reactors in Japan, then all of the living things in Japan and half of China (I say half, this is not an exact calculation, just a broad statement) would be GOO.  

CONTAMINATION, however, could theoretically travel to the US.  Contamination would be an example of those particles of radioactive material that would give off RADIATION.  So, those contamination particles would be giving off radiation, but you are NOT going to get radiation directly from the nuclear power plants in Japan.  An analogy to explain the difference between contamination and radiation would be..... sorry... poop is the contamination, the smell would be the radiation.  Make sense?  Hope this helps.  Any questions?

There is no gamma that will make it here....not going to happen...ever.

A conventional "source", as used in radiography, will generate penetrating gamma that is linear...travels in straight lines. That's why we put film behind an object and get an accurate depiction of the internals (i.e. X-ray). It is the equivalent of pointing a flashlight & when electically generated in a tube, results in no "left over" radiation....off like a light bulb.

Radioactive particulate matter that becomes airborne and floats in the wind (fallout) probably doesn't have enough mass to generate significant amounts of gamma. Alpha/beta can harm you if inhaled...badly.

In a conventional weapon blast you have tremendous heat/blast and gamma rays...bad news. If you are far enough, you can hole up for at least two weeks and avoid much of the issue because of half-life, however the particulate matter can linger....wear a full suit & mask...something to filter the air of particles and brush off the dust, strip down, wash, etc....should be fine.

The type of radiation plays a role in determing exposure...I worked with gamma and that's all I recall without digging out the books. They have been using some units that I haven't looked up, when I did it it was in roentgens with the safe "public" exposure rate being 2 mR ( two milli roentgens). Remember you high school classes two thousandths of a roentgen...not much.  When you checked your dosimeter you had a multiplier to determine your "dose" of radiation....REM.

Anyway there's some basic info...iirc.

Bottom line:
-unless you are close to a "source" the gamma isn't an issue..
-dust can be filtered with a dust mask and brushed off...not an issue in USA

So you let's say you spend $200 and you have your meter.  It starts to beep and buzz when you turn it on.  Now what??  Do you go to your basement, jump in your lead sleeping bag, and never come out?  What do you do when your meter goes off?

Good question.  

There again, it matters what your detecting device measures.  Alpha?  Clothing or paper or even skin will stop it.  Ingesting alphas would suck.  It would be like swallowing a Mac truck in the nuclear world.  
Neutrons?  Neutrons are attenuated (give up alot of energy) using water or borated poly.  The tenth (1/10) thickness of borated poly is 10 inches where water is either 24 or 25 inches (I dont remember).  A tenth thickness is the thickness of a material that is required to dissipate if you will the amount of incoming (on one side of the material) radiation down to one tenth of it's original "energy" after it exits the material.   Beta and Gamma radiation can be attenuated by using steel or lead.  The tenth thickness of lead is 2 inches where as steel is 4 inches.  So if you are going to build a protective "shield" if you will then you can use specific amounts of lead, water, and steel to lower the radiation levels on the other side of the "shield."   The energy given off during decay or fission will travel in a straight line from point of birth.  So if you know the direction that the radiation is coming from you would only need to build up a wall to protect yourself.  Fallout (airborne contamination) would have to be dealt with seperately.  

There are actually calculations you can do to determine what your "dose" is going to be.  Put that over time and you have "dose rate."    Calculating it would require several equations where it was a "point" source, "line" source, or "plane" source.  The three things that help to protect you from radiation exposure are TIME, DISTANCE, and SHIELDING.  Time?  Stay in the area that is irradiated for a shorter time, move further away from the source, or put yourself on the other side of "shielding" (ex: lead, water, poly, or steel as I mentioned earlier).

Those calculations would be useful for those closer to the Japanese reactors.  They are USELESS over her in the US for those reactors.  The distace is too great.  Fallout, as was mentioned earlier, is a different story. Still not much to worry about here on the mainland as of yet.  This is FAR from being Chernobyl (or however you spell it).

I just want to give a shout out to those nuclear reactors that are inhearantly stable by having a negative temperature coefficient of reactivity.  ;)

When I contacted them a couple of years ago it was around $600 I think, which for lab gear isnt that bad. I think they recommended recalibration every 2 years or so.

Like this?
http://store.colemans.com/cart/index.php?keyword=geiger&B1=search&main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1

Several comments:

1. The CD-715 and -717 models described on that web page aren't "Geiger Counters" - They're ionization chamber survey meters, designed to measure extremely high levels of radiation - the kind you might see after a nuclear attack. They're blind to low-level radiation - the kind you might see after a nuclear plant accident.

2. "Tested" isn't the same as "Calibrated".  When you put batteries in the unit, turn on the power, and see if the meter moves, that's "testing". When you expose the unit to precise amounts of radiation and adjust it until the meter readings show what they should show, that's "calibrating". During an actual nuclear emergency, a "calibrated" unit will tell you what's happening - A "tested" unit may get you killed.

Let's help this man out regardless. If it makes him feel like he might have more control over his and his own then that's on him. But give the man the tools.

I'm trying to find some potassium iodide pills and several dosimeters to send to some customers of mine.  They happen to be downwind of the reactors in Japan and emailed today begging for us to ship them some ASAP as the jap .gov and everyone else is fresh out.  They are extremely good customers of ours and we're going to send what I've got on hand.  I need KI tabs or liquid for about a dozen people.  I've also found some dosimeter cards for about $35 a piece at nukepill.com.  Anyone here know if those are worth a damn?

Those two Dutch meters look good if you know what you're doing...

See the topic on alternative sources of Iodine on the main survival page. The folks over there probably have some at their nearest camping store.