Yay I get to own page 5

good post protus, I got a question, when you pack the ramen noodle things do you pack just the seasoning stuff or the noodles also? thanks

Originally Posted By cr85rider09: Yay I get to own page 5 good post protus, I got a question, when you pack the ramen noodle things do you pack just the seasoning stuff or the noodles also? thanks

the lipton noodles i pack as they are in a zip lock bag..  the seasoning is not in packs its all mixed togother from the get go.

if i packed ramen, which i have,,i do keep the flavorpack seperate.

bought a snugpak elite 2 for my bag today

Originally Posted By protus: Originally Posted By cr85rider09: Yay I get to own page 5 good post protus, I got a question, when you pack the ramen noodle things do you pack just the seasoning stuff or the noodles also? thanks the lipton noodles i pack as they are in a zip lock bag..  the seasoning is not in packs its all mixed togother from the get go. if i packed ramen, which i have,,i do keep the flavorpack seperate.

when you say you keep the flavorpack seperate, do you just pack the flavorpack or do you pack the noodles also?

Thanks

bump

Originally Posted By cr85rider09: Originally Posted By protus: Originally Posted By cr85rider09: Yay I get to own page 5 good post protus, I got a question, when you pack the ramen noodle things do you pack just the seasoning stuff or the noodles also? thanks the lipton noodles i pack as they are in a zip lock bag..  the seasoning is not in packs its all mixed togother from the get go. if i packed ramen, which i have,,i do keep the flavorpack seperate. when you say you keep the flavorpack seperate, do you just pack the flavorpack or do you pack the noodles also? Thanks

sorry didnts ee this., i pack both sometimes i leave out the flavor pack,,othertimesi just pack it seperate with my other spices.

I didn't read all 5 pages, so pardon me if it has been said already.

I include several(actually many) packets of oatmeal in my BOB.   They are good/filling to eat, and easy to heat water and add to.   They are also light and easy to pack.

I saw that protus didn't include a hatchet in his BOB.  I repect his reasons, but I think the benefits are often over looked.   I actually cary one in my hunting pack, too, very  similar to my BOB.   The hatchet is an all encompasing tool, that is really, really handy if you have to quarter a large animal, pound tents stakes, make tent stakes, or cut firewood.   Nothing splits a spine of a large animal like a hatchet will.  Yes, a saw will do it, but it takes forever.    They are heavy compared to a saw, and they take up more space, but I wouldn't leave with out one.

I consider the hatchet one of my most important items in my BOB.   Just my thoughts.

guns,, i only listed a saw do to its stealth, light wieght and size. IMHO a good hacket /axe you can do way more. But for a BOB a saw wins hands down. Leave the axe at the BOL or a cache point.

i carry the instant grits, like em' better than oatmeal!

For general cleaning, (more for the 5-10 day range) I have been thinking about "Drying out" Dawn dish soap, I believe I could get alot of cleaning power in a 35mm film canister that way.  Im not sure if it will go all the way to crystals, or just a really thick Gel (Ill be posting on it later)

I use dawn to clean my hands/face/hair daily anyway.

any thoughts?

Morcoth

Originally Posted By Morcoth: For general cleaning, (more for the 5-10 day range) I have been thinking about "Drying out" Dawn dish soap, I believe I could get alot of cleaning power in a 35mm film canister that way.  Im not sure if it will go all the way to crystals, or just a really thick Gel (Ill be posting on it later) I use dawn to clean my hands/face/hair daily anyway. any thoughts? Morcoth

you can buy powderd soap at most bacpacking sites ;p  or soap strips like i sued in past.  but yeah even with a shaved head after 3-4 days i need a  bath/soap down to get that itch  off ya ! LOL

Originally Posted By Morcoth: For general cleaning, (more for the 5-10 day range) I have been thinking about "Drying out" Dawn dish soap, I believe I could get alot of cleaning power in a 35mm film canister that way.  Im not sure if it will go all the way to crystals, or just a really thick Gel (Ill be posting on it later) I use dawn to clean my hands/face/hair daily anyway. any thoughts? Morcoth

Did you go ahead with the "Drying out" test? How did it turn out?
Oh, by the way, BUMP.

smitty

I am having a crisis for my BOB. Sleeping bag vs. weight of bag.
Right now in IA its around zero degrees, but in summer 80-100 degrees. Obviously 2 bags would be ideal but alas I must make due with one. I have a sleeping bag not the most compact but good to +10 F.
Could I get some recomendations on food?
Mountain house and other dehydrated food, jerky, I do not like oatmeal much but anything tastes good when your hungry.
Shoot some recomendations if you dare. Thanks.

Originally Posted By john575: I am having a crisis for my BOB. Sleeping bag vs. weight of bag. Right now in IA its around zero degrees, but in summer 80-100 degrees. Obviously 2 bags would be ideal but alas I must make due with one. I have a sleeping bag not the most compact but good to +10 F. Could I get some recomendations on food? Mountain house and other dehydrated food, jerky, I do not like oatmeal much but anything tastes good when your hungry. Shoot some recomendations if you dare. Thanks.

well in Fl. i have 2 bags
a zero f rated and 50f rated.
Ive found that the zero f is to big at times, but can be used up to 45f without to much discomfort. The 50 f does well to about 40-45f befor ei get cold or need my bivy bag.


if i co uld do it over id still keep my 50f,, and get a good 20-25f bag. ifits gets that cold the two combined wouldnt be over 4lbs total weight.

food wise,ivelisted mostof what i carry, mre, lipton rice/pasta sides. mnt house is to pricey imho. but good to have on hand for fast hot food, trail mix etc is godo to have and jerky if you rotate it. i also use grits instead of oatmeal at times.

Why not use some of these Mainstay Food bars?

Seems like they would be a way to get the cals to keep going for 72 hours without the need to worry about the weight of water or heating to cook the stuff.

Also in an area like mine (AZ) you are not wasting your water on re hydrating food.

I'm guessing they don't taste great but in a 72 hour emergency your not going to expect luxury. In the longer term you obviously would want more treats to keep you sane but most folks will probably have more on their mind the first 72 hours.

++ on the 3600 calorie bars.
5 year shelf life in the Sun supposedly (Coast Guard approved for life rafts)
Taste is not all that bad, low sodium (salt) so you don't get thirsty.
I bought 40+ for my SHTF and plan on doing 20 / yr ($100) every year so I am at 100 (which is 200 man days of calories at 1800/day) IMHO beats the crap out of having a separate building stocked with 5 gallon buckets of rice and wheat.

Don't particularly like the taste of either, but don't have the room for the 5 gallon buckets.

And they can't be as bad as those power bars that are rocks under 50 degrees and gooey mush over 65 degrees.

DMOS

PS - Point is that they are excellent weight to payoff for a BOB/BHB 3-7 day calorie provider.

Originally Posted By dmos: ++ on the 3600 calorie bars. 5 year shelf life in the Sun supposedly (Coast Guard approved for life rafts) Taste is not all that bad, low sodium (salt) so you don't get thirsty. I bought 40+ for my SHTF and plan on doing 20 / yr ($100) every year so I am at 100 (which is 200 man days of calories at 1800/day) IMHO beats the crap out of having a separate building stocked with 5 gallon buckets of rice and wheat. Don't particularly like the taste of either, but don't have the room for the 5 gallon buckets. And they can't be as bad as those power bars that are rocks under 50 degrees and gooey mush over 65 degrees. DMOS PS - Point is that they are excellent weight to payoff for a BOB/BHB 3-7 day calorie provider.

I haven't tried a powerbar in years but I was amazed they actually came in ass flavor. At least I'm pretty sure thats the one I had.

Powerbars are outright disgusting regardless of flavor.  If you want to go the bar route, go with Clif Bars.

Originally Posted By dmos: ++ on the 3600 calorie bars. 5 year shelf life in the Sun supposedly (Coast Guard approved for life rafts) Taste is not all that bad, low sodium (salt) so you don't get thirsty. I bought 40+ for my SHTF and plan on doing 20 / yr ($100) every year so I am at 100 (which is 200 man days of calories at 1800/day) IMHO beats the crap out of having a separate building stocked with 5 gallon buckets of rice and wheat. Don't particularly like the taste of either, but don't have the room for the 5 gallon buckets. And they can't be as bad as those power bars that are rocks under 50 degrees and gooey mush over 65 degrees. DMOS PS - Point is that they are excellent weight to payoff for a BOB/BHB 3-7 day calorie provider.

not to de-rail,, but this really isnt smart.
try eating those bars for meals for 3 days then get back with me!
While for a BOB/GHB line 2 set up the bars may provide BASIC needs to stay alive, im more that 100% they wont go over well past meal #2.

My reason for staying away from such "bars" as main food sources for the ghb/BOB's is Moral. Sorry but to sit down to ahot meal or a symbelance of real food can pick you up.  The bars IMHO should be used for the run/EE or while staying low key.

IDAHOIAN DEHYDRATED POTATOES! YOU CAN GET THEM AT SAFEWAY FOR 1.30 A POUCH 3 CHEESE IS MY FAVORITE, THEY HAVE BUTTER, SOUTHWESTERN,GRLIC,LOADED,AND HERB. ALL FLAVES ARE GOOD! ONCE AGIAN LIGHT WEIGHT COOKS WITH BOILED WATER IN MINS..

Originally Posted By john575: I am having a crisis for my BOB. Sleeping bag vs. weight of bag. Right now in IA its around zero degrees, but in summer 80-100 degrees. Obviously 2 bags would be ideal but alas I must make due with one. I have a sleeping bag not the most compact but good to +10 F. Could I get some recomendations on food? Mountain house and other dehydrated food, jerky, I do not like oatmeal much but anything tastes good when your hungry. Shoot some recomendations if you dare. Thanks.

Protus;

New to the sight and I'm justing starting to put together what my family needs. Can you recomend a couple of framed packs that seem to work the best.

Mike

Originally Posted By protus: Originally Posted By dmos: ++ on the 3600 calorie bars. 5 year shelf life in the Sun supposedly (Coast Guard approved for life rafts) Taste is not all that bad, low sodium (salt) so you don't get thirsty. I bought 40+ for my SHTF and plan on doing 20 / yr ($100) every year so I am at 100 (which is 200 man days of calories at 1800/day) IMHO beats the crap out of having a separate building stocked with 5 gallon buckets of rice and wheat. Don't particularly like the taste of either, but don't have the room for the 5 gallon buckets. And they can't be as bad as those power bars that are rocks under 50 degrees and gooey mush over 65 degrees. DMOS PS - Point is that they are excellent weight to payoff for a BOB/BHB 3-7 day calorie provider. not to de-rail,, but this really isnt smart. try eating those bars for meals for 3 days then get back with me! While for a BOB/GHB line 2 set up the bars may provide BASIC needs to stay alive, im more that 100% they wont go over well past meal #2. My reason for staying away from such "bars" as main food sources for the ghb/BOB's is Moral. Sorry but to sit down to ahot meal or a symbelance of real food can pick you up.  The bars IMHO should be used for the run/EE or while staying low key.

I was kind of thinking the first 72 hours after a real SHTF event you would either be to busy or in shock to really care.

But your right after that good meal would be a must.

Maybe I missed it but how do you get hot water for you rice mixes?

Originally Posted By beardman2: Originally Posted By protus: Originally Posted By dmos: ++ on the 3600 calorie bars. 5 year shelf life in the Sun supposedly (Coast Guard approved for life rafts) Taste is not all that bad, low sodium (salt) so you don't get thirsty. I bought 40+ for my SHTF and plan on doing 20 / yr ($100) every year so I am at 100 (which is 200 man days of calories at 1800/day) IMHO beats the crap out of having a separate building stocked with 5 gallon buckets of rice and wheat. Don't particularly like the taste of either, but don't have the room for the 5 gallon buckets. And they can't be as bad as those power bars that are rocks under 50 degrees and gooey mush over 65 degrees. DMOS PS - Point is that they are excellent weight to payoff for a BOB/BHB 3-7 day calorie provider. not to de-rail,, but this really isnt smart. try eating those bars for meals for 3 days then get back with me! While for a BOB/GHB line 2 set up the bars may provide BASIC needs to stay alive, im more that 100% they wont go over well past meal #2. My reason for staying away from such "bars" as main food sources for the ghb/BOB's is Moral. Sorry but to sit down to ahot meal or a symbelance of real food can pick you up.  The bars IMHO should be used for the run/EE or while staying low key. I was kind of thinking the first 72 hours after a real SHTF event you would either be to busy or in shock to really care. But your right after that good meal would be a must. Maybe I missed it but how do you get hot water for you rice mixes?

s oda can stove with triox back up

Originally Posted By protus: Originally Posted By dmos: ++ on the 3600 calorie bars. 5 year shelf life in the Sun supposedly (Coast Guard approved for life rafts) Taste is not all that bad, low sodium (salt) so you don't get thirsty. I bought 40+ for my SHTF and plan on doing 20 / yr ($100) every year so I am at 100 (which is 200 man days of calories at 1800/day) IMHO beats the crap out of having a separate building stocked with 5 gallon buckets of rice and wheat. Don't particularly like the taste of either, but don't have the room for the 5 gallon buckets. And they can't be as bad as those power bars that are rocks under 50 degrees and gooey mush over 65 degrees. DMOS PS - Point is that they are excellent weight to payoff for a BOB/BHB 3-7 day calorie provider. not to de-rail,, but this really isnt smart. try eating those bars for meals for 3 days then get back with me! While for a BOB/GHB line 2 set up the bars may provide BASIC needs to stay alive, im more that 100% they wont go over well past meal #2. My reason for staying away from such "bars" as main food sources for the ghb/BOB's is Moral. Sorry but to sit down to ahot meal or a symbelance of real food can pick you up.  The bars IMHO should be used for the run/EE or while staying low key.

WORD brother.

For those considering Mainstay Rations, please be aware that in the two weeks since I received my shipment from BQM, over have the packs have lost their vacuum seal.

I'll be calling BQM tomorrow to see what they'll do, but right now I wouldn't trust these rations long-term.

FYI.

Originally Posted By Zaphod: For those considering Mainstay Rations, please be aware that in the two weeks since I received my shipment from BQM, over have the packs have lost their vacuum seal. I'll be calling BQM tomorrow to see what they'll do, but right now I wouldn't trust these rations long-term. FYI.

that is crazy, considering the target market for the stuff.  this is very good info.

Originally Posted By ma707: Protus; New to the sight and I'm justing starting to put together what my family needs. Can you recomend a couple of framed packs that seem to work the best. Mike

Mike your best bet is to got to a "outdoor"store. And get sized for a pack, you,wife kids etc.

For ease of use, etc any basic framed pack will work from kelty,outdoor reash,campmor,rei, north face etc.

Get external framed packs for the kids(if they are young go with a basic 3 day style packwith frame sheet and limit weights to  20lbsor less), and wife. They make the load "feel" lighter than an internal.

Go to a store,,getsized,, tell teh salesman/women your price range what your looking at doing etc( your backpacking the AT ) etc.
The willgive you advice,some may be the latest greatest,,, just find what fits your body and your buget and go from there.

Thanks

Originally Posted By Paveway_: -Some of that medical superglue for glueing up deep cuts (works great btw)

Hmm . . . .  Could you share a brand name, source, cost info, anything?  My body doesn't like synthetic things (including Nylon sutures), so I would like to do some research.

Originally Posted By protus: hard to do with the alice and mil style packs as on avg they weigh 5-8lbs empty.lol

Is there a pack type/brand which is clearly superior in this regard?  The closest place to get fitted for a pack is not a casual drive for me, so I'd like to have my questions lined up before the trip.

Also, not that I'm seeking a flame for this question, but isn't the concept of a BOB based upon having somewhere to go?  What I'm getting at is, I'll be one of those city dwellers who'll be abandonning the urban environment looking for a better situation.  So, to start, I don't know that a three-day set-up has any merit for me.  With that in mind, what would you folks recommend and, more importantly, why?

From what I'm told from talking to the folks at Travel Country, there's some total weight you're aiming for, from which you subtract your body weight, leaving you with the maximum you should be carrying.  Granted, that was a couple years ago and I remember nothing more than this.  Is this info wrong?  I'm asthmatic, so I'm concerned about weight and stress.  50-60 pound packs for long distance travel seem excessive, if you're not young and in good shape.

I have been buying the zaterian (sp?) brand of preprepared rice at the market. They come in a small pouch, allready cooked so you can boil the pouch for a few minutes or eat cold if needed. Comes in different flavors, and so far I havent found one I didnt like. Also comes with bits of ham, sausage, etc in them, precooked.

About two dollars per pouch at the foodlion or martins supermarkets around here.

watcher

Size a backpack to your torso length, not your height. Don’t assume you need the tall (or the regular or the short) model just because of your height. To find your torso length, have someone measure from the iliac crest at the top of your hipbone to the prominent bone at the base of your neck (the seventh cervical vertebrae).

hope that helps.

as to pack weights . for 3-5 days  down here even in winter you shouldnt be over 40lbs for the BOB. Now your line 2/fighting gear etc  is a different story.

what some forget is that  if their pack is heavy, they then have to add that rifle,sidearm,ammo, mags etc ect . It all add's up. be light where you can.

Originally Posted By protus: Size a backpack to your torso length, not your height. Don’t assume you need the tall (or the regular or the short) model just because of your height. To find your torso length, have someone measure from the iliac crest at the top of your hipbone to the prominent bone at the base of your neck (the seventh cervical vertebrae). hope that helps.

Well, this information is more related to fitting.  My expectation is that fitting will be handled by the trained personnel at Travel Country.

as to pack weights : for 3-5 days down here even in winter you shouldn't be over 40lbs for the BOB. Now your line 2/fighting gear etc. is a different story.

This will obviously depend upon the individual.  An 85lb female or child would find a 40lb pack much more daunting than a 20-year old 200lb, ripped Marine.  So, there must be some relationship between the person and the weight they should expect to carry.

What I'm interested in is style, construction materials, shape/volume (40lbs of feathers is more volume than 40lbs of nails), feature considerations, modifications, colors, waist belt type v. none (or whatever), expandability or not, coatings (like waterproofing or IR signature reduction), and so on.  Often, posters simply make statements ("I use the Maxpedition...") without any justification or meritorious discussion.  Well, despite whatever the intent of those comments was (perhaps the reader is expected to have working knowledge of the so-named pack), the net effect is reduced to bragging, rather than being informative.

On a related front, logic suggests volume of a bag is related to application.  So, without a place to go to, the contents of a BOB become about long-term sustainment (we're going to assume a vehicle is no longer available), rather than arriving at a pre-selected point in three days.  So, this condition might not even qualify for a "BOB", in which case, an expedition pack might seem like the best approach, except once again the individual must be able to carry it.

Thus, I'm attempting to comprehend the relationship between the container, its contents, and duration without any prior first hand experience.  Cost of materiel makes trial and error impractical, so having this understanding with which to make decisions is essential to the budgeting process.  My hope is to gather this information from the collective experience of this forum, who has the exposure I lack, in order to arm myself with answers to the inevitable questions the salesperson will ask.  "What size are you looking for?"  "Um, I don't know."

Originally Posted By -Watcher-: ...

it can be a bit daunting for someone with no experience.  here are a few answers:

total load:  no more than 40% of body weight, including the empty weight of the pack, as well as water.  less is certainly better--25% would be a good target.  in the infantry, you see 150# infantrymen occasionally carrying 120# rucks, but they are operating under an entirely different set of circumstances.

pack design/construction:  there are just so many factors involved that it would take a post marathon to cover them all.  probably the best resource for this is REI--the whole company is built around introducing city-types to the outdoors.  if you have a local store, go there and talk to the salesman--they really know their stuff.  (you might not want to mention the survival aspect, though.  they run pretty hippie there)  failing that, go to their website--they have gear comparison articles for just about everything.  this will help guide you through "do i want internal or external frame?" and the like.

honestly, though, there is almost nothing that can't be handled with a $50 used medium ALICE from the surplus store.  most of us started out that way, and progressed as we gained the knowledge and experience.  you really, really don't want to be spending a chunk of cash on a pack before developing a thorough understanding of your own personal needs and situation.

as for your point about target destination, i'll just say that you'd better have a place to go.  your BOB isn't a "go on walkabout" gear store.  without experience, you aren't just going to walk out into the wilderness and be able to get by.  my BOB will carry me for 7 days, or 10 if i ration hard.  my first target is 4 days away at medium pace loaded.  (by mileage over terrain--i haven't actually walked it.)

this points out the very first step for any preparedness-minded person:  planning.  remember PPPPPP--proper planning prevents piss-poor performance.

WHAT is likely to happen?  what are the warning signs?  what are the precipitators?  what are the ripple effects?  what do you need to deal with those specific eventualities?

WHERE is it going to happen?  city core or suburbs?  single-point event like an explosion or diffuse like a blackout/water supply contamination?  where are you going to be in relationship to it?  most importantly, where do you need to go to minimize exposure to threat?  a mile?  twenty?  a thousand?

HOW are you going to get wherever it is you need to go?  my BOL is 1800mi away, so i need to be thinking primarily in terms of vehicle mobility.  my BOB is a secondary tool.  how about you?  

my point is that your survival is a constantly morphing sequence of cause-effect relationships, and you need to begin by thinking about the algorithms needed to handle this.  until you get a handle on that, overthinking a BOB is counterproductive.  

what you need:

water
food
shelter
personal security
a bag to carry this crap in

but most importantly, you need a plan.  without it, you'll die once you run out of MREs.  so plan first, then figure out what you need to carry out that plan.  then you can start thinking about what particular style of pack you want to carry that crap in.

trust me--for now, drop $50 on a used medium alice or the big molle medic pack from cheaperthandirt.  i've used both, and either will fit your needs.  then go out and use the damn things.  make a list based on what you've read in this thread, then go out to federal or state land and spend a night camping away from your car.  this will teach you more than all the internet research in the world.

you just have to have enough willpower to make yourself do it.  

Originally Posted By sirensong: pack design/construction:  there are just so many factors involved that it would take a post marathon to cover them all.

So, there's no thread on ARFCOM which has tackled this?

WHAT is likely to happen? WHERE is it going to happen?

The only things I can think of (that I know anything about) are hurricanes or tornados.  In either case, you can't know where they're going until they go there and I'll have to report to work the next day for the recovery effort (as part of NIMS), so I'm not going anywhere until afterwards, in any case.

my BOL is 1800mi away, so i need to be thinking primarily in terms of vehicle mobility.  my BOB is a secondary tool.  how about you?

Rather than hijack this thread, I'll start another on selecting a destination.

what you need: water

I have a Katadyn Hiker, MSR MIOX water purifier, and a Hydrastorm Turbine hydration system.

food

Being diabetic, meal planning is still something I've not quite adapted to.  I need to learn basic nutrition.

shelter

Own a Bibler Ahwahnee II tent.  It's the only one I could find that was able to claim it was really waterproof.

personal security

Need training.

a bag to carry this crap in

My participation in this thread.

but most importantly, you need a plan.

Perhaps I'll see you on the other thread.

for pack issues, check the REI website as i mentioned, and also hit the arfcom tac gear forum under 'arms and tactics'.  it is impossible to make blanket recommendations because everyone's needs are different--hence the emphasis on planning first--figuring out your personal situation first, and only then worrying about gear selection.

FWIW, i'm not trying to sound pontifical here.  i learned my lessons by screwing up, which i did early and often.  i could have saved hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars by planning better, and especially by working with low-dollar gear until i got a better handle on my specific needs.  the pack issue is actually quite comical--i went through 5--count em--5 backpacks before finding the right one.  i'm just trying to pass along lessons so that you can save money.

for the rest, i'll see you in the other thread.  

picking  a pack ,depends on a lot of things.
One being your budget, two what your looking for civy or mil style.
Its really that simple.

Like shopping for cars each company offers different options.
But the majority are all the same, cordora and plastic.

Here is some advice.

Go to the store. tell the guy you want you torso measured so you get a correct fit.
There is no pack fitting  super specialist to fit it. Its basically adjusting a few straps,,,or moving a few pins!
The torso length is so you don't a get a pack that's designed for 8ft tall 36 inch torso'd folks that only have a 16 inch torso! Think  going to a shoe store and having the guys say here's a 11 fits all. meaning it will do 10-13! that's how the packs work, its not some uber custom deal unless your dropping 3500$ per pack!

there's no stupid questions, you just cant over think, the  deal or you'll  end up un happy!

read up on rei,camp mor, backpacker etc to get an idea of whats out there. like sire said we could talk forever on pack makes,modles, and make up.

Originally Posted By protus: read up on rei,camp mor, backpacker etc to get an idea of whats out there. like sire said we could talk forever on pack makes,modles, and make up.

Back in 2005, when I began accumulating gear, I did do this.  I never ended up with a pack because there are so many different packs, with varying shapes and sizes, each with justification why their's is better, and no checklist to take the novice to one of them.  I even got "The Complete Walker IV" for Christmas, which includes quite a bit of pack info.  I just don't know what I need.  My hope was to narrow the field by process of elimination based upon the collective wisdom of the forum.  A BOB thread labeled "What It Should Be" seemed like a great opportunity for that.

For example, why do people esteem Kifaru or Maxpedition over less expensive brands, if it really only comes down to price and mil/civy design?  Somewhere there's a distinguishing factor concealed.

Originally Posted By -Watcher-: Originally Posted By protus: read up on rei,camp mor, backpacker etc to get an idea of whats out there. like sire said we could talk forever on pack makes,modles, and make up. Back in 2005, when I began accumulating gear, I did do this.  I never ended up with a pack because there are so many different packs, with varying shapes and sizes, each with justification why their's is better, and no checklist to take the novice to one of them.  I even got "The Complete Walker IV" for Christmas, which includes quite a bit of pack info.  I just don't know what I need.  My hope was to narrow the field by process of elimination based upon the collective wisdom of the forum.  A BOB thread labeled "What It Should Be" seemed like a great opportunity for that. For example, why do people esteem Kifaru or Maxpedition over less expensive brands, if it really only comes down to price and mil/civy design?  Somewhere there's a distinguishing factor concealed.

why do folks buy a camero and not a mustang>?
both are fast,,both are sports cars but,,each has its own. set ups.

The kirfaru/maxpeditions etc are just brands. Just liek gergory, alpine design, north face, kelty etc.


IMHO.
untill you chose civy or mil style  you cant compare the two. One is the hummer one is the escalade...

height=8

Originally Posted By -Watcher-: height=8 Originally Posted By protus: read up on rei,camp mor, backpacker etc to get an idea of whats out there. like sire said we could talk forever on pack makes,modles, and make up. Back in 2005, when I began accumulating gear, I did do this.  I never ended up with a pack because there are so many different packs, with varying shapes and sizes, each with justification why their's is better, and no checklist to take the novice to one of them.  I even got "The Complete Walker IV" for Christmas, which includes quite a bit of pack info.  I just don't know what I need.  My hope was to narrow the field by process of elimination based upon the collective wisdom of the forum.  A BOB thread labeled "What It Should Be" seemed like a great opportunity for that. For example, why do people esteem Kifaru or Maxpedition over less expensive brands, if it really only comes down to price and mil/civy design?  Somewhere there's a distinguishing factor concealed.

Watcher,
Keep in mind that there are packs that are over-engineered(military use) and then there are civilian style packs that are either considered "top notch" or "not top notch". The military ones are designed in such a way as to be indestructible in combat or at least try to be. Civy models tend to be designed to be more comfortable in lieu of indestructible.

Some of the better civy models are Dana Design(out of business I think), Kelty, REI, The North Face(seen on many Everest Expeditions), Lowe. These are just a few. Within these there are internal frame and external frame packs. External tend to be cooler against your back because they allow better air flow. They have also, in the past been considered to be better for extremely heavy loads. Internal frame packs seem to be more widely preferred. They are mostly top-loader designs with a zippered bottom opening that gives you access from either end. The internal frame also makes them ride closer to your back thus providing a closer center of gravity. The internal is also much easier to stuff into a truck backseat or into your tent without tearing anything for obvious reasons.

The military models can be addressed by others in this forum. I do not want to make my post too long. Let it suffice to say that I was Airborne Infantry for 8 years and carried an alice that I actually enjoyed(probably the only one to do so). That is the only military style I have experience with. If you want something larger for more than a 3 day(BOB) adventure then I would suggest a civy brand. The larger military ones seem to cost more than what you need to spend(unless you are going into combat).

I hope this helps.

Originally Posted By -Watcher-: Originally Posted By sirensong: WHAT is likely to happen? WHERE is it going to happen? The only things I can think of (that I know anything about) are hurricanes or tornados.  In either case, you can't know where they're going until they go there and I'll have to report to work the next day for the recovery effort (as part of NIMS), so I'm not going anywhere until afterwards, in any case. my BOL is 1800mi away, so i need to be thinking primarily in terms of vehicle mobility.  my BOB is a secondary tool.  how about you? Rather than hijack this thread, I'll start another on selecting a destination. what you need: water I have a Katadyn Hiker, MSR MIOX water purifier, and a Hydrastorm Turbine hydration system. food Being diabetic, meal planning is still something I've not quite adapted to.  I need to learn basic nutrition. A friend of mine is diabetic and spends alot of time in the outdoors. From talking with him about his nutritional circumstances he explained it like this: LOTS of protein- as it doesn't affect blood sugar levels. Then, as individually allowable, carbs, etc. But you really need to talk with your Doctor and Nutritionist to find out EXACTLY what YOUR requirements will be. My friend knows his, so he doesn't have any severe highs and lows with his blood sugar. Once you determine your needs, you can easily adjust the food you will take in an emergency. shelter Own a Bibler Ahwahnee II tent.  It's the only one I could find that was able to claim it was really waterproof. personal security Need training. a bag to carry this crap in My participation in this thread. but most importantly, you need a plan. Perhaps I'll see you on the other thread. Also, not that I'm seeking a flame for this question, but isn't the concept of a BOB based upon having somewhere to go? What I'm getting at is, I'll be one of those city dwellers who'll be abandonning the urban environment looking for a better situation. So, to start, I don't know that a three-day set-up has any merit for me. With that in mind, what would you folks recommend and, more importantly, why? If you are going to have to report to work the next day after either of your listed scenarios, maybe a BOB isn't really what you need, but rather a more secure home. Something on high(er) ground that can withstand hurricane force winds. Aside from that, realistically, you won't be able to "walk out" of an on-coming hurricane. Your requirements may not be as weight dependent as you think, since your most likely SHTF scenarios would allow you the time to load your vehicle and go. I'm asthmatic, so I'm concerned about weight and stress. 50-60 pound packs for long distance travel seem excessive, if you're not young and in good shape. How far can you walk/hike now without a load in your local terrain? If your asthma is too severe, any attempts to hike out may prove disastrous.

You really need to talk with your Doctor to see if you are physically capable of this level of activity. Tell him you are interested in wilderness backpacking, and ask his advice on nutrition, medications for your asthma and diabetes, etc.

Best of luck!

This is my GHB/BOB, there are many like it but this one is mine...

I finally got around to taking pictures of the contents of my new GHB, (Get Home Bag).  

I've built it around a Camelbak Motherlode in coyote.

I've tried to lay out the pictures in reasonable order and layout.  I've also tried to label items in the pictures that may be a little hard to see what they actually are.

Of course I am by no way finished with what I want to add in to this.  These things tend to be continually evolving as situations and environments change.

I also still need to add some type of tarp/shelter in there rather than just the rain poncho that I currently have.

There are also a couple of odds and ends that are not pictured, spare clothes, (socks, underwear, and t-shirt), my 3 liter Camelbak bladder, amateur radio, and a few other items.

This is the stuff I have in the front slash pocket in my bag.



This is what is in the middle pocket of the bag.



And the main pocket in the bag.



This is the PSK kit that I've put together.  It's kind of outgrown my original idea of just using the Pelican 1020.  The pouch is from Cheaper Than Dirt and was/is a loan from a good friend



The current load out with 3 liters/100 oz of water is right around 30 pounds.  I've found that this carries fairly well for me.  The longest I've been out for with it is 12 miles.    The current goal is to walk home from work by the first of next month.  The total distance should run about 18 miles.  My goal is to knock this out in around six to seven hours.

Comments and suggestions are more than welcome.

Semper Fi

Originally Posted By dave5339: This is my GHB/BOB, there are many like it but this one is mine... I finally got around to taking pictures of the contents of my new GHB, (Get Home Bag).   I've built it around a Camelbak Motherlode in coyote. I've tried to lay out the pictures in reasonable order and layout.  I've also tried to label items in the pictures that may be a little hard to see what they actually are. Of course I am by no way finished with what I want to add in to this.  These things tend to be continually evolving as situations and environments change. I also still need to add some type of tarp/shelter in there rather than just the rain poncho that I currently have. There are also a couple of odds and ends that are not pictured, spare clothes, (socks, underwear, and t-shirt), my 3 liter Camelbak bladder, amateur radio, and a few other items. This is the stuff I have in the front slash pocket in my bag. i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/dave5339/BOB%20GHB%20PSK/IMG_1592_withdescriptions.jpg This is what is in the middle pocket of the bag. i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/dave5339/BOB%20GHB%20PSK/IMG_1594withdescriptions.jpg And the main pocket in the bag. i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/dave5339/BOB%20GHB%20PSK/IMG_1596withdescriptions.jpg This is the PSK kit that I've put together.  It's kind of outgrown my original idea of just using the Pelican 1020.  The pouch is from Cheaper Than Dirt and was/is a loan from a good friend i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/dave5339/BOB%20GHB%20PSK/IMG_1600withdescriptions.jpg The current load out with 3 liters/100 oz of water is right around 30 pounds.  I've found that this carries fairly well for me.  The longest I've been out for with it is 12 miles.    The current goal is to walk home from work by the first of next month.  The total distance should run about 18 miles.  My goal is to knock this out in around six to seven hours. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome. Semper Fi

shelter?
least get a usgi poncho or a silnylon  solo tarp... the tarp would be better IMHO due to its size weight..etc.  good well rounded kit though.

Bump to keep this one alive.

Another bump.

IMHO, this should be tacked.

This is a great thread and I have used it as a reference several times...  I really need to get my BOB and see how I compare but not tonight...

So I notice it doesn't seem like there are any signaling devices in the BOB's you folks have been assembling. Am I thinking wrong or what? I have a marine flare gun and 6 12Ga flares plus 3 marine handheld locator flares in my BOB. Who says that if you are bugging, that you may not at some point, need to be noticed

Originally Posted By 321Bang: So I notice it doesn't seem like there are any signaling devices in the BOB's you folks have been assembling. Am I thinking wrong or what? I have a marine flare gun and 6 12Ga flares plus 3 marine handheld locator flares in my BOB. Who says that if you are bugging, that you may not at some point, need to be noticed

If you try and pack/prepare for every senerio you will end up with a pack that you'll never be able to carry!
I carry basic stuff,radio's,mirrors,whistles. The flares etc are in a seperate kit, as are my 2 meter HT's etc.

Dave5339.....

Nice kit! How do you like the Katadyne Pocket filter?
Oh, and can we get this tacked? PLEASE!

smitty

Originally Posted By protus: Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: I SMELL A RAT! That's not protus, that's the man baby.   They've hacked Protus' computer but they forgot to alter the typing style.  Clearly they have clear minds and the the thought process was not transferred into illegible gibberish. god bless protus wherever he is. Those bastards! (southpark kids voice) SoS its , me i just dont drink anymore like i used to. im dried up!! lol plus i used spell check sorta lol

Good to see you posting over at Lightfighter. I saw this same post up this week over there.