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Posted: 5/7/2019 3:36:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I've done some thinking about this, as we're planning a trip to along the border. I have a 4 month old and 3.5 year old, and A wife that doesn't love to shoot. We are not going until the oldest is able to hold up a rifle and understand the safety of it. There will also be a refresher for the wife.
ARs are easy to operate. they have few controls, loading is easy, etc. So I would pick that platform. If I was making one for my son (and I will) it will be light weight and have a really solid comp on it. That will keep recoil low and make it easier to hold and move with. It will be the same caliber and the same mags as mine, so logistics are easy. I would get a dot or easy scope and spend a lot of time with it with a 22 conversion kit. That way they will know how it works, what to do, etc, it will just be louder and pack more punch in an emergency. Lever guns need to be topped off as used, like a shotgun, and reloading is tricky. Need to remember to cycle it, need to figure out how to carry rounds, etc. ARs are designed for minimal training. Put the mag in, pull this back once. Otherwise point at bad guys and pull till it clicks. repeat. I would want kids to be able to do volume, as well, if they are not great with accuracy. Pistols are the same, so there is just one manual of arms, one pile of mags, one kind of ammo, etc. 9mm full size whatever you prefer. I would stay away from pistol caliber rifles as they tend to recoil more than a well dialed in rifle caliber rifle. And if SHTF for real I want all the ballistics I can get. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 3:53:30 PM EDT
[#2]
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group.
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Posted: 5/7/2019 4:25:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 4:31:29 PM EDT
[#4]
I'd second Steve's comments on an AR and .22lr adapter...I would suggest a dedicated .22lr upper to increase accuracy and decrease fouling in the receiver.... I shoot an AR9 for PCC competition, but for serious work, the 5.56 platform has been doing a pretty good job
G19, 19x or 17 would be my choice also, but with steel sights |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 4:39:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Maybe Ruger PC Carbine 9mm using Glock mags? AR Eventually.
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Posted: 5/7/2019 4:46:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I have more ARs than any other type and would grab one for zombies or red dawn type scenarios.
But a .357 carbine would be a good choice as well. Great hunting gun and would probably get more time in the woods or the range. Unless I was fighting off hoards I'm perfectly comfortable with a light, handy, carbine. I have a 16" m92 in .45 Colt and it is the handiest gun. Accurate for running deer out to a hundred yards or so. Hammers them hard too. 335s at 1800fps don't kick that hard either. 357s from carbines gain a lot of velocity and iirc I've seen 158gr bullets over 2kfps. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 5:14:03 PM EDT
[#8]
22 magnum bolt action rifle tube fed, or ruger single action revolver. Or 12 ga single shot with adapters Shotgun to pistol caliber adapters
low noise (critical to survival) low recoil good for obtaining small game light weight ammunition so you can carry more ammo. With kids if you start them on semi auto guns they want to hear it go bang rather than aiming and being precise in hitting the target. You need to find a farm field or some woods and get them behind a firearm or at least a pellet gun. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 5:30:04 PM EDT
[#9]
SHTF? Everyone gets a 5.56 rifle. Manageable recoil, more energy at 500 yards than a .45 at the muzzle, ubiquitous, easy to carry lots of mags/rounds.
In fact, my daughter's sweet 16 present was a Stag lefty AR, with a custom engraving on the magwell - "sweet 16" and her initials. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 7:42:41 PM EDT
[#10]
5.56 or 9 m.m. AR would be my choice.
Glock system 9 of course.. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 7:48:08 PM EDT
[#11]
If it's worth shooting, it's worth shooting with a rifle round.
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Posted: 5/7/2019 7:57:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 8:07:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Have to agree with AR in 5.56 and G19. They are old enough to shoot them and in SHTF they will need to stand turns on watch. When I was a teen the family defense gun was a Winchester 94 in .30-30 and any of us over 12 yo could easily handle it. The AR15 is the new family SD firearm.
Put a red dot or low power scope on it and maybe a WML. Keep it as lightweight as possible though. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 8:10:54 PM EDT
[#14]
I'll +1 the ar in 556 and Glock for shtf.
Get .22 clones or kits for each, plenty of trigger time. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 8:15:07 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm sure a 5.56 AR would be fine. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 8:31:03 PM EDT
[#16]
I find the 5.56mm to recoil LESS than a 9mm or .357 carbine.
I'm with the 5.56mm AR15 and Glock 9mm crowd.(unless your primary handgun is a .357) |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 8:48:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. |
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Posted: 5/7/2019 8:48:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Kids used to hunt with real rifles all the time. Not pistol caliber, not intermediate rifle. Full caliber rifle. A .223/5.56 has negligible recoil. It’s fine.
And as pointed out a couple posts above, third world kids play with AKs and ARs all the time. Some FALs too I’m sure. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 3:50:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
just been a few years since I have had the chance to he them to the range and the only range near me is one of them have to know someone to get in the club ranges! Well, then what exactly would you expect them to do? You don't become an effective shooter by having a gun. You need training. If they barely know how it works, they won't be very helpful, unless all you want is intimidating extras for your movie. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 4:34:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 11:48:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, then what exactly would you expect them to do? You don't become an effective shooter by having a gun. You need training. If they barely know how it works, they won't be very helpful, unless all you want is intimidating extras for your movie. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
just been a few years since I have had the chance to he them to the range and the only range near me is one of them have to know someone to get in the club ranges! Well, then what exactly would you expect them to do? You don't become an effective shooter by having a gun. You need training. If they barely know how it works, they won't be very helpful, unless all you want is intimidating extras for your movie.  
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Posted: 5/8/2019 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#22]
I would think your children would have no issue using a standard ar in 5.56 /223 with a varying length stock. My 10 year old can. At that age the issue is more in their mental decision making abilities and any resulting consequences, than in their physical abilities.
Edited to add, I have 8 children. While the older ones all have their own personal firearms, 22lr, shotgun, deer rifle, etc.. they have also all been given an AR in 5.56. My eldest daughter is getting married in a few months. Her husband to be will be given an AR in 5.56. She has had hers since she was 10. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 1:46:33 PM EDT
[#23]
my almost 8yr old has an 10.5" 5.56 pistol and I started him off on a 22lr savage rascal at age 5. The ar is on the verge of to heavy for him so his shooting time is typically limited to 20-40 rounds an outing before it becomes to much for him.
I like the idea of a 22mag tube fed auto mentioned earlier. a 5.7 based lightweight auto would be an interesting animal as well. like a micro m1 carbine hmm...... but given what available a kel-tec cmr-30 sbr'd with a suppressor would be pretty hard to beat for a little tike in my opinion. (assuming reliable...I have no experience with them) |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 2:01:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Thanks OP I just realized my new granddaughter doesn't have a Glock and AR in the safe yet.
She's only 4 months old so I have some time for the build but they will be in the safe soon. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 3:13:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my almost 8yr old has an 10.5" 5.56 pistol and I started him off on a 22lr savage rascal at age 5. The ar is on the verge of too heavy for him so his shooting time is typically limited to 20-40 rounds an outing before it becomes too much for him. I like the idea of a 22mag tube fed auto mentioned earlier. a 5.7 based lightweight auto would be an interesting animal as well. like a micro m1 carbine hmm...... but given what available a kel-tec cmr-30 sbr'd with a suppressor would be pretty hard to beat for a little tike in my opinion. (assuming reliable...I have no experience with them) Use to make my kids hold a bolt action single shot rifle out in front of them and hold it! They got both smart and strong! I hear you about the 5.7 be nice if the ammo was cheaper along with the weapons to use it in! Don't want me to start my rant on 9mm vs 5.7! It do only to cost! |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 3:16:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find the 5.56mm to recoil LESS than a 9mm or .357 carbine. I'm with the 5.56mm AR15 and Glock 9mm crowd.(unless your primary handgun is a .357) |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 4:28:59 PM EDT
[#27]
The problem with this topic is its hard to say without defining the scenario, which means you have to plan on all scenarios. Just know taking your children to war is going to be very low on your want to do list. That means a defensive posture is a more likely scenario.
My boy was shooting an AR when he was about six or so and 9mm's around 10. He's still not hot on the larger calibers even at 28. Another not to forget in your planning is shot guns. Lot's of advantages to shot guns from ammo selection to game gathering to their more PC nature. When my boy was small, his favorite gun was a Springfield M6, .22lr/.410, over and under. Tj |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 4:41:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://i.postimg.cc/vmP7NbZs/C8-A9-A791-B08-A-4-CD0-B3-C8-88-DC8-D8-E0-AD4.jpg I'm sure a 5.56 AR would be fine. |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 8:00:00 PM EDT
[#29]
both my sons have pistols. 1911s. in 45. neither the 3 year old or the 4 month old can hold them, but that's why I bought em ;)
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Posted: 5/8/2019 8:04:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. He took his first deer at 5 with a 300 Blackout shooting supers and hunts with a 6.8 now. AR's are great for kids because of the low recoil |
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Posted: 5/8/2019 10:49:58 PM EDT
[#31]
For training, a 22 LR upper.
For use, 5.56 mm. |
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Posted: 5/9/2019 4:56:05 AM EDT
[#32]
As with most the logical answer is an AR in 5.56; however, much depends on the maturity, strength, and skill of your children...only you can answer that.
I went through the same process when my kids were younger. My daughter didn't start shooting until 7 or 8, but my son was on the range at three and half with a single shot .22 rifle...and he was good. I'll focus on my son since he started earlier. From a single shot .22 to a Ruger 10/22. His first centerfire rifle was my 30 Carbine, which he is what he learned to use for more "dynamic" drills. That was his "go to rifle" from about 5 to 7. At about 7-8, he started shooting ARs and hasn't looked back. Given the evolution of "pistols" with arm braces, that would be a consideration for me. I have a relatively inexpensive ATI AR15 9mm that uses Glock magazines, it's been 100% reliable, lightweight and compact. A perfect PDW for a younger child who just isn't strong enough to actually carry an AR15 carbine for long distances (assuming worse-case is carrying them while on foot). Add suppressors into the mix and I like the AR15 pistols even more in 5.56...they're just so much easier to handle, lighter, and more compact. Kids at that age aren't going to be snipers, but you want something they can use effectively at "combat ranges" to defend themselves. It's fine to debate and discuss the tools of choice; however, don't neglect the training aspects. Marksmanship provides the fundamentals, but you should also consider basic tactics, movement drills, using cover, magazine changes, FTF/FTE drills, etc. I won't lie, I joined my son's little "airsoft" buddies during their mock battles, had a blast, but more importantly we did a lot of tactics training. It's never complete either. The boy (now 20) and I are taking a class at the end of the month together; both of us are going to use AR "pistols" for this one 
ROCK6 |
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Posted: 5/9/2019 5:10:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done some thinking about this, as we're planning a trip to along the border. I have a 4 month old and 3.5 year old, and A wife that doesn't love to shoot. We are not going until the oldest is able to hold up a rifle and understand the safety of it. There will also be a refresher for the wife. ARs are easy to operate. they have few controls, loading is easy, etc. So I would pick that platform. If I was making one for my son (and I will) it will be light weight and have a really solid comp on it. I would dump the comp idea and go with the best flash hider you can find. The 5.56 doesn't recoil much anyways. |
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Posted: 5/9/2019 5:28:58 PM EDT
[#34]
I would add that I do not care for tube fed 22's. I believe it is more difficult to identify if the firearm is actually empty than with a magazine fed rifle.
I know children should be taught firearms safety, and rules to follow. However, they are still children and lack experience and critical thinking skills. They will forget, disobey, and make dumb choices that will leave you scratching your head. While I have several tube fed firearms, they are not my choice to give to the child as their own 22. They are only to be used or possessed by the children if there is supervised practice going on. I am sure others have a differing opinion. |
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Posted: 5/9/2019 9:48:39 PM EDT
[#35]
My take....
Recoil generally won't be the issue. We're comparing 5.56 with pistol rounds. Recoil might be an issue if we were talking .308 or .3006, but not with 5.56mm... When it comes to performance, the 5.56 wins... in addition to greater performance at greater ranges, I suspect 5.56mm is lighter and easier to carry than say 158 grain 357 ammo or even 147 9mm. The biggest issue (in my opinion) when it comes to small people and rifle selection is fit and weight.... Most stocks are simply too long. Then end result leverage works against the shooter, and they rifle seems muzzle heavy to them. They tend to lean back to compensate. Weight simply magnifies rifle fit issues... Unless you are ready to start cutting down stocks (which is going to be difficult to do with many pistol carbines, like the Ruger, because of synthetic stocks). Most pistol caliber carbines are blow back operated, with heavy bolts, making these fairly heavy weapons (for their caliber). The winner here is a lightweight AR15 with a 6 position stock. These are generally a solid pound or two lighter than most pistol caliber carbines. In addition, the collapsible stock means rifle fit takes about 15 seconds to figure out, with no real additional cost. I'd opt for a pencil barrel, something super light on the upper. Easy of mounting a small optic matters. Don't stick a 22ounce optic on it. Many of the current AR-specific optics are heavy. A decent small red dot would keep weight down and simplify sighting. |
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Posted: 5/9/2019 10:04:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For SHTF? All the same so ammo and mags are compatible with everyone in my group. |
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Posted: 5/10/2019 7:56:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should rethink this. If there is anything my kids hate about shooting its the loudness and concussion on certain guns (like my comped SBR or the jackass shooting a Draco pistol next to us). They all shoot and are proficient with firearms. However they do not like anything loud with concussion. None of them do. I cant teach them to like it. I would dump the comp idea and go with the best flash hider you can find. The 5.56 doesn't recoil much anyways. To the OP- I started my son on a .22lr version of the AK around 9 or so years old. He shot that for a few years and then at 12 started with a full size AK. Ditto with pistols- he used a Ruger MKII till around 12-13 and then went to a G26. Just use what you have standardized for your family, no need to get crazy out of the box with odd ball calibers and the like. Often times people use their kids to "justify" additional gun purchases. I remember I trained with asking me about AK74's cause he was going to "buy one for his 7 year old daughter, until she grows up and can use a 47" Well his 7 year old daughter could neither hold one up, nor was mature enough for it. When I asked "can she even hold that rifle up?" He responded that really it was just his excuse to buy another gun. He previously had nothing in 5.45 so he was adding another caliber for no apparent reason. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 5/23/2019 9:36:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/11318/colt_6720_jpg-955655.JPG Colt 6720 with Aimpoint. lightweight and compact. under 7lbs loaded. |
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Posted: 5/23/2019 10:22:34 PM EDT
[#40]
For SHTF I would outfit everyone in the group with AR's, for the younger ones have a 22lr conversion in it, they could always switch back to 5.56 if needed.
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Posted: 5/24/2019 5:45:43 AM EDT
[#41]
My kid is there to toss me,load mags, help her mom /load/medic and use the simplest weapons i own
Which untill becomes better and honestly wants to shoot more. Shes stuff with revolver and a single shot 22/410. I dont expect her to fire and move with me. |
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Posted: 5/24/2019 6:17:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should rethink this. If there is anything my kids hate about shooting its the loudness and concussion on certain guns (like my comped SBR or the jackass shooting a Draco pistol next to us). They all shoot and are proficient with firearms. However they do not like anything loud with concussion. None of them do. I cant teach them to like it. I would dump the comp idea and go with the best flash hider you can find. The 5.56 doesn't recoil much anyways. |
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Posted: 5/24/2019 6:58:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. AR15 in 556 and glock 19s all around. |
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Posted: 5/24/2019 7:40:12 AM EDT
[#44]
I'd say a crate of 10/22s with PA microdots, mags, and CCI ammo
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Posted: 5/24/2019 7:48:42 AM EDT
[#45]
The answer is always a rifle round. Kids grow up
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Posted: 5/24/2019 12:20:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Depends on your SHTF scenario and the strength/size of the teen.
If static defense at your base location, almost any rifle the teen can handle easily, acquire targets quickly, and tolerate recoil will work. .38/.357 or .44 lever guns, AR-15s, SKS, shotguns, FALs, M1 Garands, AKs, .30 M1 Carbine etc., will work. If need to hunt short distances is added to the above, drop the AKs, FALs, Garands, and heavier rifles, and add .22LR rifles. If you anticipate the teens humping all their gear over a few miles or longer distances, you need to go with the lighter rifles, such as the .30 M1 Carbine at 5.8 lbs loaded w/sling which beats the AR-15 loaded at a weight of 7.5 lbs. A .38/.357 carbine would beat the .44mag carbine due to ammo weight since both rifles weigh near the same 6.5 lbs. Of course as the teen's size approaches a young adult male's weight and strength, almost any rifle is good, including the M1A/M14 or M1 Garand at over 10 lbs loaded (millions of GIs did fine with them, but they grumbled anyway). |
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Posted: 5/24/2019 12:55:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
just been a few years since I have had the chance to he them to the range and the only range near me is one of them have to know someone to get in the club ranges! You dont fix shtf problems with gadgets/stuff |
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Posted: 5/24/2019 1:57:32 PM EDT
[#48]
My youngest was shooting his FAL when he was 15. I did get him an AR15 later (17??).
For what you describe as a use/need I would stick with a light carbine or even pistol with a brace in .223. If you want a light, get one that is easy to take off and store in a buttoned up pocket/pouch when you don't need it. No use adding weight to the carbine/pistol when you don't need the light. For an AR15 pistol I'd put a red dot of some kind on it (I have a DP Pro on one and a PA advanced micro dot sight on the other. The PA unit battery is supposed to last for years. The DP Pro has been lasting a year for us (have one on a CZ Compact also). For the carbine a 1X4 illuminated dot (in the center of the cross hairs) scope. Give it the capability of close up (1X), farther out (4X) or low light (turn the dot on). And most of those use the same batteries as the DP Pro and the PA red dot sights. I have a couple 9MM AR's but I can't imagine grabbing one of those for a serious problem when the .223 version is right next to them. |
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Posted: 5/24/2019 2:08:16 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 5/24/2019 3:00:12 PM EDT
[#50]
14.5 or 16” AR in 5.56mm.
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