User Panel
Posted: 7/24/2013 11:55:16 PM EDT
Rifle pistol combos have been used as a survival tools for a long time and most major calibers in wheel guns can also be bought for a rifle. I'm not knocking out 9mm, 40S&W of any other handgun caliber I'm looking to talk about is a caliber that can do double duty one that can take down a deer size game and anything two legged!
I'd like to see is someone make a rifle that can shoot 10mm or like rounds does not have to be semi auto. Anyway I'm just sticking with common wheel gun calibers 38spl/357mag, 44spl/44mag and 460/454/45LC families. Now we all are into having what we need when we need it so for the sake of this post and because in some areas some calibers are more common then others we are going to say you have 5K loaded ammo 10K of brass, primers, lead and powder to add up to 15K worth of loaded ammo. That's it no more no find any you just get a 15K ammo this is so it takes out the problem of areas that you can find some ammo but not others. Before I forget that is 15K for all ammo be it 44spl/44mag you can split the ammo 50/50 but you only get 15K. Now I'd like to know what caliber would you pick and why? I ask because I'm not looking or wanting to spend my money and time on a tool that might be more common but can't get the job done as well as another tool that is less common! As for hunting game your deer/boar is going to be out from 100 to 200 yards no scope all iron sights both handgun and wheel gun. We all know we want to take down our game with one shot and we all know that deer have been shot with large caliber rifles and still needed another shot to put them down. So take from that what you will. So please play this game the rules have been set now tell everyone here what you feel the BEST CALIBER would be. No use of one is more common then the other will be used! Hand loads or factory is what you have to deal with! Have fun and lets keep it fun! Have the right to add rules to any other major issues that others might bring up. |
|
I'll play.
44 Mag. Mainly because anything else in a hand gun is too much.
|
|
Quoted:
I'll play. 44 Mag. Mainly because anything else in a hand gun is too much. View Quote Ok see what your saying here so I ask even if you can load lighter loads for the pistol would you still pick this round? Up to you for what you carry you don't have ot carry the same round for your pistol that you do for your rifle! |
|
I'm not so certain I totally understand what you're asking. If it's just the caliber, I'd pick the .44 mag.
If it's my selection of firearms for this caliber, I'd have my S&W 29-2 with a 4" barrel and either a Marlin or Winchester lever gun. The lever is accurate enough to do the job out to a considerable distance in .44 mag, light and handy enough to not be a bother to tote around and fast enough to make quick work in a SD situation. 10k rounds for reloading is almost laughable. That's 2 bricks of primers and maybe 7-10# of powder. It's not hard to squirrel that much away. (Provided you have the brass) As for the projectiles, I'd use my 240gr Keith mold and roll my own out of scavenged wheel weights. Should be plenty of them parked idle somewhere... If it weren't for casting my own bullets- I don't think I'd have retained any of my wheelguns to date. Sly |
|
Quoted: Ok see what your saying here so I ask even if you can load lighter loads for the pistol would you still pick this round? Up to you for what you carry you don't have ot carry the same round for your pistol that you do for your rifle! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'll play. 44 Mag. Mainly because anything else in a hand gun is too much. Ok see what your saying here so I ask even if you can load lighter loads for the pistol would you still pick this round? Up to you for what you carry you don't have ot carry the same round for your pistol that you do for your rifle! Unified round is best round.
|
|
Quoted:
I'm not so certain I totally understand what you're asking. If it's just the caliber, I'd pick the .44 mag. If it's my selection of firearms for this caliber, I'd have my S&W 29-2 with a 4" barrel and either a Marlin or Winchester lever gun. The lever is accurate enough to do the job out to a considerable distance in .44 mag, light and handy enough to not be a bother to tote around and fast enough to make quick work in a SD situation. 10k rounds for reloading is almost laughable. That's 2 bricks of primers and maybe 7-10# of powder. It's not hard to squirrel that much away. (Provided you have the brass) As for the projectiles, I'd use my 240gr Keith mold and roll my own out of scavenged wheel weights. Should be plenty of them parked idle somewhere... If it weren't for casting my own bullets- I don't think I'd have retained any of my wheelguns to date. Sly View Quote OK why pick 44 mag ? Can not say because I have it we are looking at what caliber would be best! 10K is nothing I know but in SHTF or survival are you really going to need! Like I said we are looking at CALIBER and what it can do! |
|
Hands down the .44 mag. best factory available loadings for anything from mouse to moose and anything in between.
|
|
|
OBTW - Olympic Arms makes pistol caliber carbines based on an AR15 platform in 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm, 45ACP, etc...
http://www.olyarms.com/ ...just sayin... Having said that... I have a 357 mag S&W pistol and Marlin lever action rifle that I am very fond of... 357 is lighter, faster (flatter shooting), and capable if the shooter is up to the task... |
|
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol.
|
|
My choice is easy, I already have it. Pistol would be my Smith 686+ w/ 4in barrel and a Rossi 92 w/ 16in barrel. Both are in .357 magnum. Rounds would be 158gr lswchp. I like the .357 round, it can handle deer out to 100yards and is just a great overall round. The .38spc lswchp +p round is nothing to sneeze at either. I also like the fact that I dont have to worry about magazines for either weapon.
|
|
Quoted:
OK why pick 44 mag ? Can not say because I have it we are looking at what caliber would be best! 10K is nothing I know but in SHTF or survival are you really going to need! Like I said we are looking at CALIBER and what it can do! View Quote I didn't want to say it, but with no alternative I must now say; FPNI. |
|
Quoted:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol. View Quote This. Survival isn't giving a sporting chance or a "clean kill" to the "game", and its OK for 2 legged foes. Easy for untrained people too. If I lived in a free state... |
|
I'll throw in a comment on the hand loading side of the problem...if you plan on using something like a "tong tool" to reload with, fired full house load .44mag brass will be considerably more difficult to resize than .357mag....carbide sizing dies and a compound single stage press would be my suggestion (RCBS Rock Chucker) ...don't forget that there are 200grain .357 bullets out there (35 caliber rifle)...I once reloaded a piece of Norma .357 mag brass 75 times before I retired it...
that being said, a .44 has a lot of utility....either caliber it would be a coil spring Ruger DA revolver, and a Marlin lever gun.... though I never did get to shoot an IMI Timberwolf... |
|
500SW- you know gotta be able to kills cars as well in the SHTF, You can also load with 50bmg tips for extra knock down
|
|
can I just go to my safe and pick?
it would be 7.62x25 I have the AR upper and a few Yugo Tokarevs. |
|
Quoted:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol. View Quote 5.7 is a bitch to reload. The brass has a lot of issues. My brother's got a few guns in 5.7 and they're fun to shoot, but it's the only caliber we don't reload. We did for a while, but it's just not worth it. |
|
I've got carbines and pistols in .357 and 9mm. Either would work. 9mm has the advantage of holding more in both the carbine and pistol applications.
|
|
|
I have a buddy with a 45-70 rifle and revolver as a combo. economical? no! but damn those are some fun guns. I am pretty sure you can take down most things you point them at although there might not be much left of smaller game. His magnum research revolver is one sweet rig .
|
|
I'd either go with a 9mm in an AR platform or the Sub2000 Glock platform...AR has exponentially more accessories and customization that would take place, no recoil, and a very versatile caliber for everything except large/dangerous game. 33rd mags, reliability, fast follow-ups, easy to suppress...can you tell I'm a serious fan of the 9mm??
Or... .357 mag carbine of some sort. On the weaker end but does have enough power to take out almost anything, minimal recoil in a shoulder fired weapon, can be used in a revolver for a sidearm and shot by pretty much anyone (so long as it's not a snubbie!). Try that with a .44mag! Some shooters will be scared away for good! But it is just personal preference here. -Emt1581 |
|
.45 Colt, I have lots of ammo, reloading supplies, it is an easy round to reload. With a Winchester Trapper, Rossi Ranch Hand, S&W 25-5 and Colt SAA....I am covered.
|
|
I think this post is a bit silly. No offense, but pistol calibers make poor rifle calibers. Rifle calibers make poor pistol calibers.
On this thread, my answer would be 6.8SPC. Not that I could ever CCW one, but you have to suspend disbelief a bit in this scenario anyway. |
|
I have a few setups...
22lr - various revolvers, pistols and rifles 9mm - various pistols - 9mm AR-15 carbine 45 Colt - various revolvers - Winchester 1984 Takedown and Winchester 94AE trapper Some day I would like to add a 357 rifle too but really there isn't anything I can't do with the setups I have that I could do better with a 357. The 9mm combination is really fun given how expensive 5.56 ammo is these days. |
|
Winchester 94 in 44 mag
SMith 629 5" 44 mag snake shot up to bear or moose |
|
Under your rules, I'd opt for the 45 Colt. Loaded to moderate velocities (not Ruger or TC) it is capable of taking medium sized game. I'd prefer universal loaded ammo and components rather than a 50/50 split (38/357 - 44spl/44mag).
|
|
I have actually done what you are talking about sinceIi was a young "kid"
My first centerefire rifle was a Ruger 44 Mag. The year I graduated form high school I got my first 44 Mag handgun. I found them to be a perfect pair, and over the years I have always had a 44 Mag Rifle and a 44 Mag revolver. I have killed quite a few deer, some pigs, turkeys, and a lot of small game with them. I have also used the 44 CCI/Speer shotshells in the revolver to kill a lot of small game and quite a few snakes. So in my 15K of rounds I would want a 1000 rounds of the shotshells. Most of the rest of the ammo could be the standard 240gr 44 Mag load, they have killed deer and pigs perfectly. I would want a few hard cast 300 gr loads just in case I went into BIG bear country, but actually I could get by with some of my hard cast Keith 240gr SWC bullets no problem. Some lighter HP loads for intown defense would be a good idea as well, so maybe a thousand of the Speer 200gr Short Barreled load. My current 44 Mag rifle is a peep sighted Winchester Mod 94 Trapper, with a 16" barrel. It is very short handy and light weight. I use it on a lot of trips for a vehicle, utility, backup hunting rifle, paired with a 44 Mag revolver, of course. |
|
The thing about the magnum calibers is they gain the most from longer barrels, so either 357 or 44 mag, assuming you'll be casting and reloading yourself.
|
|
Quoted:
This. Survival isn't giving a sporting chance or a "clean kill" to the "game", and its OK for 2 legged foes. Easy for untrained people too. If I lived in a free state... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol. This. Survival isn't giving a sporting chance or a "clean kill" to the "game", and its OK for 2 legged foes. Easy for untrained people too. If I lived in a free state... This is my vote. Hands down. |
|
Quoted:
5.7 is a bitch to reload. The brass has a lot of issues. My brother's got a few guns in 5.7 and they're fun to shoot, but it's the only caliber we don't reload. We did for a while, but it's just not worth it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
If I had to choose only one pistol and one rifle for me to carry that both take the same ammo for my survival, I would have to choose the ps-90 and the 5.7 pistol. 5.7 is a bitch to reload. The brass has a lot of issues. My brother's got a few guns in 5.7 and they're fun to shoot, but it's the only caliber we don't reload. We did for a while, but it's just not worth it. The only reason I chose these is because its survival, I would need the ability to not only take down game but defend myself, and Ill take a 50 round semi auto rifle over a lever gun any day. Now these are not my SHTF guns, but Im not limiting myself to only one caliber. Funny thing is I sold my PS90 a few years ago. |
|
can you do a sub2000 and a Glock in the same caliber?
the only problem I have with pistol caliber carbines/ rifles is that, and this is just my opinion, if you're going to carry a rifle ; why not carry it in a rifle caliber? call me a pansy, but I don't particularly enjoy shooting magnum handguns. |
|
Sub2000 in 9mm firing +p+ 124 gr hollowpoints.
And a fishing rod, and lots of snares to actually gather food. In SHTF I'm not going to waste time hunting deer or boar. I'll be hunkering home - and if I wander it'll be to check the traps and snares, check the fishing line, and then back...or better yet, give that job to the boys. I've a buddy that's partial to the .44 though and if I had it, that'd be my druthers. |
|
I would like to cheat. I'll keep my BCM EAG and pick up a PLR-16 for my, uh, "pistol". I hate Keltecs but if it means I get to keep my favorite gun then I'll do it.
Real answer I'd probably go with 9mm. Lots of 9mm options out there for rifles and the ammo is relatively cheap and plentiful. Or at least, it was... |
|
I have a Ruger GP-100 and Ruger M77 both in .357.
.357 out of a carbine/ rifle is a nice combo to 150yds or more. Check out the Ruger Centerfire section in the Armory, there is a nice review with some incredible groups fired from the M77/357. |
|
Quoted:
---snip--- Having said that... I have a 357 mag S&W pistol and Marlin lever action rifle that I am very fond of... 357 is lighter, faster (flatter shooting), and capable if the shooter is up to the task... View Quote That would be my choice too if I'm going to have to carry and shoot said pistol and carbine. |
|
I started with a Savage 24 .357/20. I just added a Wiley Clapp GP100 and have a 77/357 on layaway at Bud's. I also have a Beretta 92fs and CX4 Storm combo. I am also contemplating adding a Blackhawk .357/9mm to round things out.
|
|
My pistol/rifle combo is a Star Super and a Destroyer cerbine in 9mm Largo. Try to beat that!
|
|
been thinking of going this route as well and may do it. what i'd like is a 16" carbine (like a 92 puma) in 454 casull with a ruger super redhawk also in 454 4" barrel. i'd take all 15k brass in 454 casull, 300gr wfn bullet(and mold ) then i'd want a keg of lil gun/h110/w296(any of those) then another in say unique/true blue/trail boss. then i'll load them to what I feel is appropriate. probably 2/3's being 45colt level of power then i'd use the crimp grove's to determine which load is which(the 300gr wfn I'm thinking of has 2 crimp grooves)
the "realisitc" approach and what I may end up doing. is a ruger gp100 3" in 357 (3" sp101 a close second) to compliment my 92 puma in 357. again all 357 brass with 175gr wfn bullets also with two of the above powders. the modern approach. a ddles lower with 10mm upper (probably built by ron williams) and a glock 29 maybe a 20. but being a rifle/pistol combo leaning more towards the 29. this option is far beyond my fincial reach at this time. |
|
Marlin rifle and Ruger revolver in 357. Both can also use 38 I needed.
|
|
I've played with this idea. I've found that in reality its not nearly as "handy' as one might think.
The problems are twofold. 1) Any bullet that works well at pistol speeds usually does not work well at carbine speeds. And vice versa. The typical JHP pistol bullet that opens reliably at 4" barrel velocities will dramatically overexpand at 20" carbine speeds. Any bullet hard enough to hold together well at carbine speeds does not open at pistol speeds. The only combo bullet that sort of works in both is a hardcast semiwadcutter ( that has additional problems of leading in the barrel). 2) The usual "I can use 38's and 357's" or similar 44 spec and 44 mags argument doesn't work well. Carbines sighted for mag loads at 25 yards often see DRAMATIC point of impact changes with various 'specials'. I've seen 6 to 8" poi changes at 25 yards. More at 50 and 100 I simply cannot get the pistol/carbine in same caliber thing to work well. |
|
Quoted:
I've played with this idea. I've found that in reality its not nearly as "handy' as one might think. The problems are twofold. 1) Any bullet that works well at pistol speeds usually does not work well at carbine speeds. And vice versa. The typical JHP pistol bullet that opens reliably at 4" barrel velocities will dramatically overexpand at 20" carbine speeds. Any bullet hard enough to hold together well at carbine speeds does not open at pistol speeds. The only combo bullet that sort of works in both is a hardcast semiwadcutter ( that has additional problems of leading in the barrel). 2) The usual "I can use 38's and 357's" or similar 44 spec and 44 mags argument doesn't work well. Carbines sighted for mag loads at 25 yards often see DRAMATIC point of impact changes with various 'specials'. I've seen 6 to 8" poi changes at 25 yards. More at 50 and 100 I simply cannot get the pistol/carbine in same caliber thing to work well. View Quote I agree to an extent which is why my choice would be the .45 Colt as opposed to a 38/357mag or 44/44mag combo for the reasons you outlined. However, with hard cast bullets, terminal performance would be about the same (over-penetration from a carbine length barrel notwithstanding). |
|
Lee makes a reloading tool/kit for .357, .44, and .45 LC for less than $40. The kit is about the size of a box of stick matches....might help you make a decision for a SHTF scenario.
Check it out at Lee Precision. |
|
If the rules are stating commonness of calibers are not factors, I'd take .41 mag.. .44 will barely out do it on muzzle energy only with a FULL house load. It shoots flatter and usually carries more energy terminally. The lever rifles are hard to find though.
Yes, I do shoot and load both .44 and .41 - I have nothing but love for .44 too. |
|
Quoted:
I've played with this idea. I've found that in reality its not nearly as "handy' as one might think. The problems are twofold. 1) Any bullet that works well at pistol speeds usually does not work well at carbine speeds. And vice versa. The typical JHP pistol bullet that opens reliably at 4" barrel velocities will dramatically overexpand at 20" carbine speeds. Any bullet hard enough to hold together well at carbine speeds does not open at pistol speeds. The only combo bullet that sort of works in both is a hardcast semiwadcutter ( that has additional problems of leading in the barrel). 2) The usual "I can use 38's and 357's" or similar 44 spec and 44 mags argument doesn't work well. Carbines sighted for mag loads at 25 yards often see DRAMATIC point of impact changes with various 'specials'. I've seen 6 to 8" poi changes at 25 yards. More at 50 and 100 I simply cannot get the pistol/carbine in same caliber thing to work well. View Quote Oh I agree, it is not advisable. That said, it does give you an option that you cant do with most other combos. Also, it allows you to use .357 in the rifle and .38 in the pistol (thus eliminating problem number 1) and still be able to interchange if you run out of one and cant find replacement ammo. Not ideal, but an option you don't have otherwise. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.