GPS physical security versus OPSEC

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GPS physical security versus OPSEC

Posted: 9/13/2009 5:22:03 PM EDT

As always, thanks for looking

Here in the NH seacoast there has been a very sharp increase in auto break-ins over the past few months. One of the most popular targets of theft of late have been dash-mounted GPS units. Speaking with my Father today (he's a local police chief), he said there has also been a sharp increase in daytime home break-ins in the area. According to him, several of these break-ins share a common denominator: the homeowners have recently had the GPS units stolen out of their vehicles. The PD has surmised that in cases where the registration was not in the car at the time of the break-in, the thieves are simply using the "home" waypoint on a stolen GPS to figure out where the homeowner lives. It has happened far too many times, he says, for it to be a coincidence. Also being stolen are garage door openers-when the thief finds the house he can walk (or drive) right into the garage and help himself.

I suppose that if I were a crook a high-end car could suggest that it's owner lived in a high-end home. Something to think about if you keep a portable GPS in your car. My car isn't exactly high-end, but occasionally I do leave my Garmin GPS mounted to the windshield. I promptly removed my "home" waypoint after getting off the phone earlier today

Posted: 9/13/2009 5:48:30 PM EDT

[#1]

I have my home position saved as a "gregs house". It is not as convenient as the home feature but it provides a measure of safety. I also clear the breadcrumbs once a week or so.

Posted: 9/13/2009 6:13:54 PM EDT

[#2]

yep, was an article about this not to long ago. the general thought was to change your "home" to something else. i never use "home" on my GPS. i know where i live, LOL. all i need to do is get back to my general area and i can handle it from there. set your post office as "home". i would hope everyone could drive from there PO to there house.

Posted: 9/13/2009 6:19:51 PM EDT

[#3]

Since I'm obviously familiar with my own neighborhood, I have my "Home" setting to be the parking lot of a grocery store a few blocks away.

I just use the home setting to figure out how to get to a major freeway anyway, then can figure the rest out on my own.

Posted: 9/13/2009 6:30:50 PM EDT

[#4]

hmmm maybe we should set the home waypoint to the police station

Posted: 9/13/2009 6:56:02 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
hmmm maybe we should set the home waypoint to the police station

Was thinking exact same thing.....then I scrolled down

Posted: 9/13/2009 7:03:12 PM EDT

[#6]

I treat my GPS unit with the same level of care that I do firearms in the car.

Earlier this year, I posted a screen shot of a track I walked on my parent's property a year earlier and forgot about. Every 4 seconds it recorded time, date, position, speed, and heading. That along with my saved waypoints are way more than I would ever want to allow another person or organization to have. From a peacetime perspective you have to worry about your own home being broken into, and in a SHTF you compromise the locations of people important to you, the locations of your caches etc.

*some* of the important people/locations I need to go to after a SHTF are in my GPS, but they have had the lat/lon altered so that they are useless unless I apply a correction number manually and then navigate to them.

Posted: 9/13/2009 7:11:55 PM EDT

[#7]

This thread is food for thought.

I wonder if there are any GPS units out there that encrypt the database and require a password for access.

Posted: 9/13/2009 7:20:04 PM EDT

[#8]

Just set the home address to a number between 2 houses a 1/4 mile away. I like having my home address in there for figuring "return time", route, and also calculating a routing leaving town, when I'm not home at the time of calculating. (I frequently use my GPS for figuring mileage for travel estimates, and telling people when I can meet them.)

Posted: 9/13/2009 7:33:31 PM EDT

[#9]

Sounds like the perfect ingredients for a sting - park a few decoy cars with GPS units having a home address where the cops are waiting for the perp to come calling...

Posted: 9/13/2009 7:49:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Just set the security to on for the GPS. My Garmin requires me to enter a PIN Number each time I turn it on. The only other way to turn it on without the PIN Number is to turn it on at home. Then it will startup without requiring the PIN Number.

Posted: 9/13/2009 8:30:07 PM EDT

[#11]

I had my Garmin and my Glock23 stolen from my car about a year ago in Park City, UT

we had three separate occassions where we either observed someone casing the house or had neighbors say someone was in our back yard that they didn't recognize. They got away and we never got a plate or anything.

my wife basically stayed home for about 6 months straight, we put in a fort knox safe and I jerry rigged a camera system for a short time but it was a POS.

I would NOT have a "home" mark in my GPS. If you have one, clear it, or put it to a local intersection or something.

Posted: 9/13/2009 9:07:59 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
hmmm maybe we should set the home waypoint to the police station

Now THAT is a great Idea!

Just going by "Home" would make most would be thieves decide that they might NOT want to mess with that persons house!

BIGGER_HAMMER

Posted: 9/14/2009 1:27:22 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Just set the home address to a number between 2 houses a 1/4 mile away. I like having my home address in there for figuring "return time", route, and also calculating a routing leaving town, when I'm not home at the time of calculating. (I frequently use my GPS for figuring mileage for travel estimates, and telling people when I can meet them.)

yeah, go a little farther, when they guy doesnt see your car in the driveway, hes gonna look around- remember, he already has that info

I put in the center of town, and dont turn it on anywhere close to home (cookie trail is very obvious if you know how to use it)

Posted: 9/14/2009 3:22:27 AM EDT

[#14]

Just set mine to a house down the street that has the Obama stickers on his car... figure he wants to share the wealth :)

Posted: 9/14/2009 3:57:33 AM EDT

[#15]

You guys don't know where you live ? Just curious....

Posted: 9/14/2009 4:14:03 AM EDT

[#16]

My Garmin won't display anything unless it's turned on at my home address, or I enter a 4-digit PIN.

Posted: 9/14/2009 4:50:09 AM EDT

[#17]

I use a major intersection nearby. I can figure out the rest from there.

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Posted: 9/14/2009 5:15:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
hmmm maybe we should set the home waypoint to the police station

My "home" is set for the local police station.

R.

Posted: 9/14/2009 6:21:02 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
You guys don't know where you live ? Just curious....

No, we don't know where we live without a GPS showing us the way. Before GPS was invented, I used a giant can of yellow spraypaint to put arrows on the ground. In a pinch I'd use a big ball of string that unrolled from the trunk of my car to mark my way.

Having a "home" waypoint is useful when figuring travel times and plotting routes.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 9/14/2009 8:21:34 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
hmmm maybe we should set the home waypoint to the police station

That's what I was thinking.

Posted: 9/14/2009 8:31:28 AM EDT

[#21]

what did we do before there was GPS. after 14 years in the army i still prefer a map, maybe im a dinosaur, but reading a map and paying attention to my surroundings is more reliable than a GPS.

this is the survival forum where self sufficient and independent thinkers abound. during SHTF or our EMP tin foil bomb goes off GPS is going to be worthless.

i vote paper maps

Posted: 9/14/2009 8:58:39 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
You guys don't know where you live ? Just curious....

I know where I live, but frequently I'll go somewhere to do/get something and then don't know how to get out/home from there.

so I hit the key for home and it'll usually route me to the nearest freeway or other known point so then I can orient myself. once I'm out of unfamiliar territory I obviously don't need it.

it's also useful for when we leave town and my dad takes care of the kids. He know where we live but only knows how to get there 1 way. cause he doesn't know this area at all.

so he takes the kids to baseball, drops them off and then is like "where the heck am i?"

Home button takes him back to our house and he's good.

Posted: 9/14/2009 9:45:27 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
what did we do before there was GPS. after 14 years in the army i still prefer a map, maybe im a dinosaur, but reading a map and paying attention to my surroundings is more reliable than a GPS.

this is the survival forum where self sufficient and independent thinkers abound. during SHTF or our EMP tin foil bomb goes off GPS is going to be worthless.

i vote paper maps

For me, GPS isn't something I depend on. It's a convenience, akin to heating up a cup of soup in the microwave. Sure, I could go outside, dig a fire pit, gather up some tinder, and use my Swedish Firesteel to start a fire to heat up the same cup of soup...but why bother unless I'm camping?

I spent many years navigating the US and Canada for work armed with a dogeared atlas, an address on a Post-It note, and nothing more. GPS is a quantum step forward, in particular because you don't have to figure out where you are. Do I depend on it? No, I could manage just fine without it. I have the riding skills and ability to commute to work every day on horseback too, but I don't do that either

Posted: 9/14/2009 10:06:43 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
what did we do before there was GPS. after 14 years in the army i still prefer a map, maybe im a dinosaur, but reading a map and paying attention to my surroundings is more reliable than a GPS.

this is the survival forum where self sufficient and independent thinkers abound. during SHTF or our EMP tin foil bomb goes off GPS is going to be worthless.

i vote paper maps

For me, GPS isn't something I depend on. It's a convenience, akin to heating up a cup of soup in the microwave. Sure, I could go outside, dig a fire pit, gather up some tinder, and use my Swedish Firesteel to start a fire to heat up the same cup of soup...but why bother unless I'm camping?

I spent many years navigating the US and Canada for work armed with a dogeared atlas, an address on a Post-It note, and nothing more. GPS is a quantum step forward, in particular because you don't have to figure out where you are. Do I depend on it? No, I could manage just fine without it. I have the riding skills and ability to commute to work every day on horseback too, but I don't do that either

that pretty much sums it up!

I read this thread this morning, and on my drive to work reset my "home" to the golf course a mile from my house. I usually use the home button to see how far i am from home so I can give the wife a time frame for dinner...

Posted: 9/14/2009 10:30:43 AM EDT

[#25]

My god, this OPSEC thing and compromised GPSs is way overblown. 99% of all cars have some identification/paperwork within them (usually in the glovebox) that states the owners address.

....and if you're gonna play the "I'm smarter than that and only carry my insurance card in my wallet and not in the car/truck" there's always good 'ol PublicData.com....for a measly $25/yr (or some other nominal fee) someone can type your PLATE NUMBERS (!!....yeah, good luck hiding/concealing that) in and discover more about you than you're comfortable with...much less your measly home address.

/still not a bad idea of marking a not-true-location as home, just don't fool yourself that someone can't figure out where the casa is

Posted: 9/14/2009 11:23:07 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
My god, this OPSEC thing and compromised GPSs is way overblown. 99% of all cars have some identification/paperwork within them (usually in the glovebox) that states the owners address.

....and if you're gonna play the "I'm smarter than that and only carry my insurance card in my wallet and not in the car/truck" there's always good 'ol PublicData.com....for a measly $25/yr (or some other nominal fee) someone can type your PLATE NUMBERS (!!....yeah, good luck hiding/concealing that) in and discover more about you than you're comfortable with...much less your measly home address.

/still not a bad idea of marking a not-true-location as home, just don't fool yourself that someone can't figure out where the casa is

They get a PO Box if they run my tags. Good luck jumping through the hoops to get the physical address linked to the PO Box from USPS. Oh yeah, and guess what, the last time the people that had pull enough to do that actually did it, they were in for a rude surprise. All they could do was hold my mail until I gave them another address.

My insurance cards don't have my address on them, in Oklahoma you don't have to carry "registration" in your vehicle, and I don't need no stinkin' GPS to find my way around. This is Indian Territory my friends and we've known the land better than most people long before GPS.

Posted: 9/14/2009 11:27:31 AM EDT

[#27]

I don't get it. Why would some guy that steals my gps also want to rob my home specifically? Stealing a $150 garmin doesn't really mean I'm mr. money bags. Besides don't most people leave their insurance card and service records and registration in the car which generally all contain your name and address?

Posted: 9/14/2009 11:30:55 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys don't know where you live ? Just curious....

No, we don't know where we live without a GPS showing us the way. Before GPS was invented, I used a giant can of yellow spraypaint to put arrows on the ground. In a pinch I'd use a big ball of string that unrolled from the trunk of my car to mark my way.

Having a "home" waypoint is useful when figuring travel times and plotting routes.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Taking some random route plotted by a machine that is indifferent to my actual surroundings and safety is foreign to me esp. where I live, and work.. But if you cannot get out and know your AO then I guess that might work.

Posted: 9/14/2009 11:53:56 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I don't get it. Why would some guy that steals my gps also want to rob my home specifically? Stealing a $150 garmin doesn't really mean I'm mr. money bags. Besides don't most people leave their insurance card and service records and registration in the car which generally all contain your name and address?

-He knows you won.t be home for a while, especially if he takes it while you are at work or church. he may have been sitting in the grocery store/mall parking lot and watched you leave and knows he will have an hour or to get what he needs.

-If you call the PD to report the break in, it is going to be a low priority call and you will probably be delayed further.

-In the crook's mind, if you were careless enough to leave a GPS sitting on your dash WITH your home waypoint, you may be just dumb enough to leave around unsecured guns, jewelry, etc.

Posted: 9/14/2009 11:56:10 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
My god, this OPSEC thing and compromised GPSs is way overblown. 99% of all cars have some identification/paperwork within them (usually in the glovebox) that states the owners address.

....and if you're gonna play the "I'm smarter than that and only carry my insurance card in my wallet and not in the car/truck" there's always good 'ol PublicData.com....for a measly $25/yr (or some other nominal fee) someone can type your PLATE NUMBERS (!!....yeah, good luck hiding/concealing that) in and discover more about you than you're comfortable with...much less your measly home address.

/still not a bad idea of marking a not-true-location as home, just don't fool yourself that someone can't figure out where the casa is

They get a PO Box if they run my tags. Good luck jumping through the hoops to get the physical address linked to the PO Box from USPS. Oh yeah, and guess what, the last time the people that had pull enough to do that actually did it, they were in for a rude surprise. All they could do was hold my mail until I gave them another address.

My insurance cards don't have my address on them, in Oklahoma you don't have to carry "registration" in your vehicle, and I don't need no stinkin' GPS to find my way around. This is Indian Territory my friends and we've known the land better than most people long before GPS.

Plates gives you a name...and with a name, the Phone book, Voters Registration and/or Appraisal District's websites give you either an home address or the property you own (that may or may not be the home address)

Not trying to rub it in, just stating the facts of our open-information society

Posted: 9/14/2009 12:55:45 PM EDT

[#31]

I was told GPS can work both ways as the bad guy might know where your home is but you can find out where he is! When I worked security at Target we had 5 GPS stolen told the company about it they contacted the local PD and found the stolen GPS. Not sure how they did it or what is needed to get it done but you might want to ask your the company you bought your GPS from about it.

A little off the topic but if you have "On Star" on your car/tuck/ SUV just for the security your wasting your money!! A good car thief knows that without that black box on the top your On star will not work they just snap it off and there is nothing On Star can do. I was told by the Auto theft squad in Dallas to get Lojack if your going to get anything they almost never find the transmitter or even know one is on the vehicle until its to late.

Posted: 9/15/2009 3:48:43 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Plates gives you a name...and with a name, the Phone book, Voters Registration and/or Appraisal District's websites give you either an home address or the property you own (that may or may not be the home address)

Not trying to rub it in, just stating the facts of our open-information society

Several of us have been protecting our information for decades.

I have a counter to everything you posted....just saying. It's all good here.

Posted: 9/15/2009 3:57:50 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You guys don't know where you live ? Just curious....

No, we don't know where we live without a GPS showing us the way. Before GPS was invented, I used a giant can of yellow spraypaint to put arrows on the ground. In a pinch I'd use a big ball of string that unrolled from the trunk of my car to mark my way.

Having a "home" waypoint is useful when figuring travel times and plotting routes.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Taking some random route plotted by a machine that is indifferent to my actual surroundings and safety is foreign to me esp. where I live, and work.. But if you cannot get out and know your AO then I guess that might work.

Perhaps you are missing the point of the "home" feature?

Several times per year I go on long trips. I live in NC, and occasionally travel to Florida or Wisconsin. I don't have all the routes memorized to get home, especially if I am leaving straight from a cave dive in the middle of nowhere in Florida

–– it is pretty easy to just click "home" on the GPS and start driving. Other times on shorter trips home (2-3 hours or less) the GPS might take me a different route than I would normally take, and it can always be nice to have a change of scenery or find a different (and possibly better) route than what you were originally taking before.

Posted: 9/15/2009 5:02:47 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Perhaps you are missing the point of the "home" feature?

Several times per year I go on long trips. I live in NC, and occasionally travel to Florida or Wisconsin. I don't have all the routes memorized to get home, especially if I am leaving straight from a cave dive in the middle of nowhere in Florida

–– it is pretty easy to just click "home" on the GPS and start driving. Other times on shorter trips home (2-3 hours or less) the GPS might take me a different route than I would normally take, and it can always be nice to have a change of scenery or find a different (and possibly better) route than what you were originally taking before.

Nicely said

For me, the "home" waypoint isn't set because I need help finding my way around my AO. It's for plotting routes, figuring out travel times, and measuring distance to a particular waypoint or waypoints. My daughter and I also use it frequently for geocaching-that's what I originally bought it for. If we intend to find multiple caches in a given day, we can plot their locations and distances from home on the digital map, and then plot the most efficient course to visit them. My particular GPS isn't a traditional dashboard mounted unit-it's a handheld trail GPS that has been updated with street mapping software (Garmin GPSMap 60CSx). It's really handy to switch between topo maps for geocaching and street maps for driving. We use the anchor drag alarm and barometer when we're on the boat, and the altimeter when we're hiking.

The street mapping software loaded in my GPS gives me the option to avoid highways, toll roads, u-turns...you name it. It can optimize for best route, fastest travel time, or any combination of either. It beats the hell out of being pulled over on the side of the road with my face buried in an atlas. One could also argue that the GPS user pays more attention to the road (and their surroundings) because they don't have to sweat finding the next street sign or highway exit. They can concentrate on actually driving.

Posted: 9/17/2009 7:08:44 PM EDT

[#35]

Meh- I got a walmart road atlas in my 9 year old vehicle.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GPS physical security versus OPSEC

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