Talk about a bad scene to respond to

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Talk about a bad scene to respond to

Posted: 2/23/2006 3:30:50 AM EDT

November 2004 some of our students who are Officers from a Police Department in Tennessee received a 911 call from a small child on a cell phone. They said their estranged father had broken in to home and was yelling at their mother.

The father was a former Navy Seal turned logger, with a drug problem. He was also taking steroids and had smoked over $700.00 in crack cocaine that day and consumed a large amount of other prescription pain pills. To wash all that down he was consuming a lot of beer...

Read the full details here: Tactical Response

Posted: 2/23/2006 7:37:42 AM EDT

[#1]

Registration required.

How bout a cut-and-paste?

Posted: 2/23/2006 8:36:18 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Registration required.

How bout a cut-and-paste?

Will do. You should register there though, it's free w/ no personal info required and there is some damn good info floating around that site. Mainly BTDT members.

Initial post by James Yeager:

November 2004 some of our students who are Officers from a Police Department in Tennessee received a 911 call from a small child on a cell phone. They said their estranged father had broken in to home and was yelling at their mother.

The father was a former Navy Seal turned logger, with a drug problem. He was also taking steroids and had smoked over $700.00 in crack cocaine that day and consumed a large amount of other prescription pain pills. To wash all that down he was consuming a lot of beer.

Before going in the house he cut the phone lines, and during the investigation afterward it was found he was going to “work the problems out” with his wife or he was going to kill her. Fortunately the mother had a cell phone and warned the oldest child to call 911 if he showed up.

When the Officers arrived the mother ran out of the house and told them she wanted he husband to leave. The Officers saw the father sitting on the couch in the living room, which was near the front door, and asked him to step outside. After several attempts it was obvious he was not going to comply and he appeared to be under the influence, and emotionally disturbed. While the talked to him a small child appeared from the hallway and came to the front door. Fearing the child's safety, they entered the house and another officer took the small child to the rear bedroom out of harm’s way.

Since her refused to leave the suspect was told he was under arrest. He became combative and started fighting with Officer. A TASER was used with negative results because the shot inadvertently struck one of the officers in the hand. Another Officer approached the suspect and attempted to gain control and take him into custody. The subject struck him several times in the face, one of which was palm strike to the nose. He then kicked the Officer across the room and he landed on a love seat. The suspect pulled a box cutter and cut the officer across the face. Another officer managed to pull the suspect off and I the wounded officer delivered a kick to his chest. This knocked the suspect in the direction of another officer.

The suspect then began assaulting that and he appeared to be cutting him across his back. The wounded officer, along with a County Deputy who was now on scene, tried to gain control of the suspect again. The suspect threw the deputy across the living room on to an entertainment center. Then the suspect threw the wounded officer out the front door at the same time the deputy was deploying his chemical weapon which struck the third Officer. From the front porch the wounded officer observed the suspect inside the home going towards his partner with the box cutter in his hand.

From the porch the wounded officer drew his duty weapon, activated the weapon light, and fired six shots at the suspect hitting him 5 times. The suspect was fatally wounded. The Officers also found another large knife in his pants.

Comments from the wounded Officer:

“I have told several people that the school which you taught was by far the best one I have attended in 10 years of Law Enforcement. The class was great and I know it played a very important roll in the survival of all the officers on scene. The other two officers and I are grateful for what you do, and for the quality of training you provide. It is absolutely awesome, and a must for every officer!”

Comments from Tactical Response:

We would like to take the opportunity to thank all of the involved officers for their heroic actions. From the outside it may seem almost like a comedy of errors but anyone who has ever been in a battle can tell you that the “fog of war” as it is called by some can test your training, or lack of it, to the fullest. The officer involved attended a SWAT School in which Tactical Response taught the firearms portion as a favor to its lead Instructor who is a Warrior and personal friend.

The officer fired 6 rounds with 5 hits, in low-light, from outside (through a doorway), at a moving target, with Officers and a child in the background. I would like to thank him for his dedication to police work and his desire to be a better shooter and tactician.

Follow-up post by SRT210:

James,

I just got around to seeing this post and thought I would respond. As you know this incident involved my agency and two of my team members. I was assigned as the lead local investigator along with a TBI Agent. We reconstructed the scene and ran both internal and criminal investigations into this shooting. I was on the scene that night within three minutes of the shooting and took command.

I wanted to provide you and other officers some more insight into this case. I can talk more freely about it now than when I first briefed you about it as the case is now closed.

First of all the Taser failure. Well the Taser is a great tool but it is not a wonder tool. It has limits and one of those is close quarters battle. For the Taser to work at it's best there needs to be sufficient probe spread. The Taser is similar to a shotgun with buckshot, the farther the probes travel from the muzzle the greater the spread. Close probe hits are not as effective.

When you are fighting in a 10' x 12' square box with rapidly moving suspect and officers present it is difficult if not impossible to position yourself just right for that perfect shot. Really the 10' x 12' does not give a true picture because the room of course had furniture. Take into account the sofa, chairs, coffee table, TV, etc... and it is shrinks dramatically.

The Taser hitting one of the officers instead of the suspect: Here is what happened - One of the officers (Officer A) is knocked down to the floor. The officer recovers quickly and sees that the suspect is beginning an attack/advance at his partner (Officer B). Upon seeing this Officer A rapdily rises to his knees and extends his right arm up in from of the suspect in an attempt to grab him and stop/slow the attack on Officer B.

Officer B was already preparing to deploy the Taser. Officer B is making final target acquisition and in the process of firing. The last visual input that Officer B had of his partner (Officer A) was that he was down on the floor. Once Officer B raised the Taser at the suspect's upper body he lost visual of Officer A.

Officer B fires the Taser at the suspect who is closing what little gap was present. This Taser firing takes place at the same time as Officer A reaches up to grab the suspect. This resulted in Officer A catching the Taser probes in the back of his right hand/wrist.

Officer B first notices no response on the suspect and then quickly realizes that somehow Officer A has been hit. Officer B turns off the Taser and dumps the cartridge.

The Deputy grabs the suspect and they engage each other. The Deputy deploys OC spray at the suspect. The OC spray used fires in a pinpoint stream delivery system. The stream misses the suspect but stikes Officer A squarely in the face as he is getting up from the Taser hit.

Officer A has now been hit, tazed and sprayed all in less than a minute.

When Officer B is cut across the face with the box cutter but he was unaware of exactly what had happened to him. He felt something metallic strike his face but he could not see the knife. I have investigated numerous stabbings over the years and this is common with the knife. It is often a silent and stealthy weapon.

The Officers could not see the edged weapon because the room was darkened. All lights were out. The only light was coming from a hallway and the Deputy's flashlight that got knocked out of his hands and landed against the wall behind a sofa and end table.

Near the end the suspect had been knocked down onto a sofa. The suspect raised both legs up and double kicked Officer B in the chest. This kick was forcefull enough to propel Officer B backwards across the room and through the open front door. Officer B landed on his back on the deck just outside the doorway on a lawn chair. The chair shattered/splintered into several pieces. It looked like one of those prop chairs used in a fight scene in the movies. Officer B is still to this day recovering from the injury he received to his back that night. Messed up disc / pinched nerves, etc...

Officer B realized that he had been cut and believed that some type of edged weapon was now into play. At this point in time ONLY Officer B was armed with this knowledge of a weapon.

And before anyone says it he DID NOT have time to verbalize this to anyone else. It's kinda hard to talk flying across a room and damn near breaking your back.

Officer B is lying on his back with his legs inside the room and his upper torso outside. Officer B draws his gun (Glock model 22, 40 cal.) which is equipped with a rail mounted white light. Officer B raises up his torso bringing the gun to bear on the threat area and activates the light.

This is what he sees: Five feet in front of him and just to the left is Officer A. Officer A is on his knees with his hands at his face trying to get his eyes open from the OC spray. The suspect is immediately to the right of Officer A. The suspect is approximately two feet from Officer A. The suspect has the knife in hand, raised and is about to slash Officer A from behind.

The Deputy is approximately three feet to the right of the suspect. The Deputy has been knocked into an entertainment center and is regaining his bearing.

Officer B has only a split second to react or Officer A is going to be cut from behind. Officer B fires two rounds at the suspect. One round hits in upper torso and the other misses by inches and goes into a wall. The suspect stops briefly and then turns his upper torso towards Officer B still with the knife raised for striking in his hand.

Officer B fires two more rounds. Both rounds strike the suspect in upper torso. The Deputy has now gotten back on his feet and is closing on the suspect from the right. The suspect sees the Deputy and turns to face him once again assuming a raised stabbing position with the knife.

Officer B fires two more rounds. Both strike the suspect in upper torso. The suspect pauses briefly and drops to his knees and then falls to the floor.

Officer's immediately secure the weapon and suspect. During the search they observe a second knife with the blade protruding out of the suspects pants leg. Investigation determined that the suspect had a large filet knife in his waistband (wearing nylon jogging pants). The box cutter was in his pocket as a secondary weapon.

During the early stages of the fight the filet knife slipped down the suspect's pants leg. The sharp edge of which punctured the nylon pants below the knee. This left the suspect armed only with the box cutter. It is believed that the suspect first attempted to access the filet knife but it had already dropped down his pants. The suspect then went to his secondary weapon (there's a lesson here folks).

Investigation revealed that the box cutter was a tool to cut the phone wires of the complex with. The filet knife with a 10" blade and razor edge was positioned in his waistband as his primary weapon.

The suspect was flown to a trauma center and died about two hours later during surgery. Of the five rounds that hit the suspect three were upper chest wounds that were considered lethal. The other two were lower chest and stomach wounds. The very first round that struck the suspect hit him in the upper left side chest. This round was a lethal round.

The rounds that we issue are Speer Gold Dot's in 165 grain. All five rounds stayed inside the suspect with no exit wounds. The sixth round that missed went through three layers of sheet rock, one layer of insulation and stopped in a 2x4 wall stud.

The bullets recovered from the suspect's body were at full expansion and appear to have retained almost all of their weight. I could not be happier with the performance of these rounds.

Officer B's firing position was very difficult. He was on his butt in a doorway. Less than two feet away from the suspect was an Officer. Not to mention children in the next room.

Officer B had just completed SWAT school six months before this incident. This is the school that James and Aultman gave their time to help us with. During that course we had all of the officers fire what I called a downed/disabled course in which they had to fire on their backs and in other positions.

Officer B commented that until that class he had never been exposed to such shooting positions. Officer B is not a rookie. He has several years of "working" under his belt. By working I mean he works. He does not sit around trying to avoid calls and dodge reports.

It was in the SWAT school that Officer B took on a new outlook. Things changed for him there. I see it often when I teach SWAT courses. Usually during the course something "clicks" for the student and they begin to "Think Tactically". It was after SWAT school that Officer B decided that a light mounted to his gun was a must have.

He didn't care what it costs but he knew he needed one. Before we would rib me a little about all my "SWAT toys" and refer to me as inspector gadget. But he took the training seriously enough that he borrowed the money to buy the light and new holster.

If he had not made this decision months prior I KNOW that I would have been investigating a double homicide that night.

The light is the "tool" that made the difference that night. The mindset and perseverance of the Officers saved their lives and the lives of four other including three children.

I certainly take nothing away from those Officers that night BUT it all goes back to TRAINING!!! Without the proper training the outcome would have been different.

That's where I want to take a moment to say thank you to James Yeager and Mike Aultman. Both of you gave your time and more importantly your knowledge during that SWAT school.

Instructors have to understand the importance of their jobs. A true instructor gives 100% to his students because he is always mindful that six months later this student's life and the lives of others may depend upon his training.

That goes without saying for you guys. I sincerely respect you for the dedication you have for your students. And I extend my deepest THANKS to you and Aultman for giving your time to help train these officers. I have friends that are still alive today in part because of your contributions.

Posted: 2/23/2006 9:19:44 AM EDT

[#3]

Glad another dirt bag is off the face of the earth

Be Safe

Posted: 2/23/2006 9:29:10 AM EDT

[#4]

was he really a SEAL?
lucky all the cops didn't die.
shows how screwed up the guy was to let the cops take him down that easy.
not a comedy of errors. i bet there were cops being thrown around the room like rag dolls

Posted: 2/23/2006 10:45:37 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
was he really a SEAL?
lucky all the cops didn't die.
shows how screwed up the guy was to let the cops take him down that easy.
not a comedy of errors. i bet there were cops being thrown around the room like rag dolls

That's what Yeager reports, I doubt he'd make it up. Did you see the part about the fillet knife? If it hadn't slid down the inside of the guy's pants to where he couldn't access it there might well have been some KIA cops. He still got some hits in with just that box cutter.

Posted: 2/26/2006 5:47:08 PM EDT

[#6]

And to think, I wanted to be a cop when I was a kid...........I was too young to go to MP school after boot camp when I joined the Corps.......or my whole life would've been different...........I'm glad I've been an electrician for 16 years, because with incidents like this, I may not have made it to 16 yrs as an LEO.............Keep up the good work guys!!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Talk about a bad scene to respond to

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