Firefighters, which do you prefer and why?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Firefighters, which do you prefer and why? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/24/2013 6:08:19 AM EDT

Smoothbore or fog nozzles? I'm curious which you prefer and why.

I really only have experience with fog nozzles so I'm curious to hear what you more experienced guys like/use.

Posted: 5/24/2013 7:22:58 AM EDT

[#1]

smooth bore for structure/ room and contents fires.

penetrating stream to hit the seat of the fire, 150gpm out of 1.75in line with a 15/16in tip, WITH A KINK IN THE LINE. with no kinks in the line you should get around 180gpm. and you lessen the chance of steam burns.

but thats not to say fog nozzles dont have their place.

the power fog pattern does help with putting fire out, but it does create steam which can getcha burned

fogs are good for foam obviously

and good for car fires

but my choice for car fires is a SG60 with a piercing applicator on it having problems finding a link for you guys to see but its a 60gpm nozzle, with a piercing tip that has holes at the tip to creat a 360 degree fog pattern. you can use either the fog pattern, or the straight stream from the nozzle itself. you control which pattern by where the bail is on the nozzle

well i found an ad for it, its slow to load, but you can sorta see it, go to page 24 of the pdf

http://www.newenglandfirechiefs.org/imageuploads/1958%20-%20NEAFC%2036th%20Annual%20Conference.pdf

Posted: 5/24/2013 3:13:27 PM EDT

[#2]

If I had to choose one it would be SB. However, my dept runs fire chief nozzles (made by Akron). Best of both worlds. You have a fog nozzle, 50 psi. If you need a SB spin the "bumper" off and you have a smooth bore. Nice and easy. Truly you can get most of what you need in the penetration department with a straight stream with a fog nozzle, it is what we use most of the time, and it's nice to have the ability to go to a wide fog if you need it. But it is just hard to beat a smooth bore when it comes to knocking the piss out of the seat of a fire.

Posted: 5/24/2013 7:03:03 PM EDT

[#3]

don't like a smoothbore inside of a house simply because you can't use it to ventilate, nor put up a fog for heat, it generally has to much pressure and you start knocking shit around in the house.
if im attacking from the outside or fighting a large/hot fire i like a smoothbore

Posted: 5/25/2013 3:33:08 AM EDT

[#4]

I disagree, a smooth bore can be used for hydraulic vent. Crack the bail about half way, and it will do the job, just not as good as a fog nozzle.

Our dept runs Task Force Tips on 2" primary attack lines. they are good nozzles, and have allot of uses. My personal opinion, is that we should go back to smooth bores. They are pumped at a lower pressure, and, at least in my department, can be operated by less man power (especially when using the 2.5"). Also our TFT's have a bad habit of getting switched from straight to fog as the nozzle man enters the structure. Not good for steam. You don't run into that with a SB.

Quoted:
don't like a smoothbore inside of a house simply because you can't use it to ventilate, nor put up a fog for heat, it generally has to much pressure and you start knocking shit around in the house.
if im attacking from the outside or fighting a large/hot fire i like a smoothbore

Posted: 5/25/2013 6:10:08 AM EDT

[#5]

We use fog nozzles at my dept. I've never used a smooth bore so I can't say much about it. I think it's more of a northern thing. I don't know of a dept in south alabama that uses one.

Posted: 5/25/2013 10:38:13 AM EDT

[#6]

I haven't used a solid stream for interior firefighting since fire school. I don't know of anyone around here that uses them. I'd like to try if just once in real world conditions to see how it works for myself but as usual everyone would flip out if I even mentioned it because "that's not how it's done".

Posted: 5/25/2013 10:45:04 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I haven't used a solid stream for interior firefighting since fire school. I don't know of anyone around here that uses them. I'd like to try if just once in real world conditions to see how it works for myself but as usual everyone would flip out if I even mentioned it because "that's not how it's done" "We're not the city".

FIFY

That's what we hear. Yea, we're a suburb, and no, we should not listen to the department that spends more on training and research in a year then we have ever.

Posted: 5/25/2013 11:00:55 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
If I had to choose one it would be SB. However, my dept runs fire chief nozzles (made by Akron). Best of both worlds. You have a fog nozzle, 50 psi. If you need a SB spin the "bumper" off and you have a smooth bore. Nice and easy. Truly you can get most of what you need in the penetration department with a straight stream with a fog nozzle, it is what we use most of the time, and it's nice to have the ability to go to a wide fog if you need it. But it is just hard to beat a smooth bore when it comes to knocking the piss out of the seat of a fire.

We have the Fire Chief nozzles as well and I love them. 99.8% of the time we use the fog tip, just keep it on a straight stream and it's almost as good as a smooth bore just with additional options. Reach isn't as good but that's easily obtained by spinning off the tip.

The 0.2% of the Tims we use a smooth bore is with our high rise packs and it is to alleviate as much risk of getting an obstruction as possible. They are the same Fire Chief nozzle but the tip is spun off and carried in a bag in case we need to use it for mop up or something along those lines.

Posted: 5/27/2013 9:51:52 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
smooth bore for structure/ room and contents fires.

penetrating stream to hit the seat of the fire, 150gpm out of 1.75in line with a 15/16in tip, WITH A KINK IN THE LINE. with no kinks in the line you should get around 180gpm. and you lessen the chance of steam burns.

but thats not to say fog nozzles dont have their place.

the power fog pattern does help with putting fire out, but it does create steam which can getcha burned

fogs are good for foam obviously

and good for car fires

but my choice for car fires is a SG60 with a piercing applicator on it having problems finding a link for you guys to see but its a 60gpm nozzle, with a piercing tip that has holes at the tip to creat a 360 degree fog pattern. you can use either the fog pattern, or the straight stream from the nozzle itself. you control which pattern by where the bail is on the nozzle

well i found an ad for it, its slow to load, but you can sorta see it, go to page 24 of the pdf

http://www.newenglandfirechiefs.org/imageuploads/1958%20-%20NEAFC%2036th%20Annual%20Conference.pdf

every bit is true, I will take a fog with me for this reason. I have both options in our dept we teach a silly saying that's saved 2 of our firefighters, left for life right to fight. we have a flash sim in our training facility, we teach how to control fire and what to do if it begins and that's what we train with. is it right maybe not but we have 2 firefighters with us today out of a nasty accident that if we didn't train like this they wouldn't be here today.

don't get me wrong I do like smooth bore, but it does have its limitations but this also is the same with the fog so to properly do our job we should have both tools.

firepolock you forgot fogs only work on natural gas fires to help contain fire so you can get close enough to turn off the valves. if you have to or hope they can turn it off elsewhere.

Posted: 5/27/2013 10:14:53 AM EDT

[#10]

SOS for interior SB for exterior.

Posted: 5/27/2013 4:12:45 PM EDT

[#11]

We have fog nozzles on our crosslays and bumper lines, though some of the engines have a rear preconnect with a smoothbore.

I don't have enough actual live fire time to have a preference, though. Three training burns and two structure fires in four years...

Posted: 5/28/2013 1:57:57 AM EDT

[#12]

Used both... Prefer fog. Straight stream on the Fog does fine and can always open it up a little bit more if needed.

Smoothbore just seemed to knock shit around.. each does the job if applied properly.

Posted: 5/28/2013 3:30:12 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
smooth bore for structure/ room and contents fires.

penetrating stream to hit the seat of the fire, 150gpm out of 1.75in line with a 15/16in tip, WITH A KINK IN THE LINE. with no kinks in the line you should get around 180gpm. and you lessen the chance of steam burns.

but thats not to say fog nozzles dont have their place.

the power fog pattern does help with putting fire out, but it does create steam which can getcha burned

fogs are good for foam obviously

and good for car fires

but my choice for car fires is a SG60 with a piercing applicator on it having problems finding a link for you guys to see but its a 60gpm nozzle, with a piercing tip that has holes at the tip to creat a 360 degree fog pattern. you can use either the fog pattern, or the straight stream from the nozzle itself. you control which pattern by where the bail is on the nozzle

well i found an ad for it, its slow to load, but you can sorta see it, go to page 24 of the pdf

http://www.newenglandfirechiefs.org/imageuploads/1958%20-%20NEAFC%2036th%20Annual%20Conference.pdf

every bit is true, I will take a fog with me for this reason. I have both options in our dept we teach a silly saying that's saved 2 of our firefighters, left for life right to fight. we have a flash sim in our training facility, we teach how to control fire and what to do if it begins and that's what we train with. is it right maybe not but we have 2 firefighters with us today out of a nasty accident that if we didn't train like this they wouldn't be here today.

don't get me wrong I do like smooth bore, but it does have its limitations but this also is the same with the fog so to properly do our job we should have both tools.

firepolock you forgot fogs only work on natural gas fires to help contain fire so you can get close enough to turn off the valves. if you have to or hope they can turn it off elsewhere.

ahh yes, i forgot about LPG and natural gas fires.

forgot to add what i like to use,

9 times out of 10, ill pull a smoothbore for structure fires

in both of my depts, we have an "alley line" of sorts. was thought up of 20 some odd years ago to address a specific problem in the city of new britain. then i was able to get my volunteer chief to try it on his rigs as well. long hose, but reduces pump pressure

its 200 feet of 2.5 inch dead hose, with a reducer, and then 150 feet of 1.75 inch hose, with a smoothbore 15/16 inch tip

its a great line, you guys should try it out

btw, you could always use a gated wye as a reducer, but run the risk of gates closing or opening at will, well unless you tie um off, but thats a pain in the ass

heres a reducer similar to the one we use, ours is a little different, as ours is completely smooth, so it doesnt get caught up as easy going around corners and such

http://www.akronbrass.com/more-products/fittings-adaptors/rigid-direct-connect-base

and if need be, for testing purposes, or in a pinch, you could always use one of the reducers off the pump panel, hell im on a truck and i keep a spare reducer in my goody bag

Posted: 5/28/2013 8:17:20 AM EDT

[#14]

Thanks for all the great responses. We use fog nozzles at my department but it looks like I'll get a chance here in a few days to use the smoothbore nozzle in a few live burns.

Posted: 5/28/2013 6:48:12 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Thanks for all the great responses. We use fog nozzles at my department but it looks like I'll get a chance here in a few days to use the smoothbore nozzle in a few live burns.

make sure your AO/engineer remembers that its a SB and not a fog, or he'll be tossing your ass around the room

Posted: 5/28/2013 7:07:48 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for all the great responses. We use fog nozzles at my department but it looks like I'll get a chance here in a few days to use the smoothbore nozzle in a few live burns.

make sure your AO/engineer remembers that its a SB and not a fog, or he'll be tossing your ass around the room

why?

youve got low pressure and high pressure fog nozzles.

if your on that engine, and you touch that pump panel, you better fucking know your friction loss, lengths of hose, and what pressure the tip should be pumped at

Posted: 5/29/2013 2:05:36 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for all the great responses. We use fog nozzles at my department but it looks like I'll get a chance here in a few days to use the smoothbore nozzle in a few live burns.

make sure your AO/engineer remembers that its a SB and not a fog, or he'll be tossing your ass around the room

why?

youve got low pressure and high pressure fog nozzles.

if your on that engine, and you touch that pump panel, you better fucking know your friction loss, lengths of hose, and what pressure the tip should be pumped at

Are you career or volly? That makes a difference in that reply! haha

Posted: 5/29/2013 5:02:04 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for all the great responses. We use fog nozzles at my department but it looks like I'll get a chance here in a few days to use the smoothbore nozzle in a few live burns.

make sure your AO/engineer remembers that its a SB and not a fog, or he'll be tossing your ass around the room

why?

youve got low pressure and high pressure fog nozzles.

if your on that engine, and you touch that pump panel, you better fucking know your friction loss, lengths of hose, and what pressure the tip should be pumped at

Are you career or volly? That makes a difference in that reply! haha

both

started as a volunteer 12 years ago, and paid 5 years ago

IMHO, it doesnt matter whether you are paid or not. once you step on that engine or truck, you better know how to operate it, and know what your doing.

Posted: 5/29/2013 8:17:33 PM EDT

[#19]

Our tips have removable fog nozzles with a 1 3/8" SB tip in front of the shutoff. We've had to use them at several fires where hydrant pressure was too crappy to run the lines we needed at the book pressure.

Posted: 5/31/2013 2:24:26 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for all the great responses. We use fog nozzles at my department but it looks like I'll get a chance here in a few days to use the smoothbore nozzle in a few live burns.

make sure your AO/engineer remembers that its a SB and not a fog, or he'll be tossing your ass around the room

why?

youve got low pressure and high pressure fog nozzles.

if your on that engine, and you touch that pump panel, you better fucking know your friction loss, lengths of hose, and what pressure the tip should be pumped at

Are you career or volly? That makes a difference in that reply! haha

both

started as a volunteer 12 years ago, and paid 5 years ago

IMHO, it doesnt matter whether you are paid or not. once you step on that engine or truck, you better know how to operate it, and know what your doing.

+100

I run in a combination system. I happen to be career. I don't care whether the guy pumping the engine is career or volunteer, he is a "pump operator" and is expected to perform as such. I haven't met a structure fire yet that gives a damn whether the guy at that pump panel is getting paid or not. I certainly don't.

Posted: 6/1/2013 3:11:47 AM EDT

[#21]

[/quote]

both

started as a volunteer 12 years ago, and paid 5 years ago

IMHO, it doesnt matter whether you are paid or not. once you step on that engine or truck, you better know how to operate it, and know what your doing.[/quote]

+100

I run in a combination system. I happen to be career. I don't care whether the guy pumping the engine is career or volunteer, he is a "pump operator" and is expected to perform as such. I haven't met a structure fire yet that gives a damn whether the guy at that pump panel is getting paid or not. I certainly don't.
[/quote]

What I meant by that was some people get pretty excited and jack the pressure way up...
I just noticed it happen more with volunteers. Seen some paid guys do some stupid stuff too.

Posted: 6/1/2013 4:08:47 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

both

started as a volunteer 12 years ago, and paid 5 years ago

IMHO, it doesnt matter whether you are paid or not. once you step on that engine or truck, you better know how to operate it, and know what your doing.[/quote]

+100

I run in a combination system. I happen to be career. I don't care whether the guy pumping the engine is career or volunteer, he is a "pump operator" and is expected to perform as such. I haven't met a structure fire yet that gives a damn whether the guy at that pump panel is getting paid or not. I certainly don't.
[/quote]

What I meant by that was some people get pretty excited and jack the pressure way up...
I just noticed it happen more with volunteers. Seen some paid guys do some stupid stuff too.[/quote]

ive seen it too on both sides

but to me, its lack of training

Posted: 6/1/2013 9:32:43 AM EDT

[#23]

Fog nozzles are all we have. We have had a few guys not check their line before entry and burn the piss out of themselves. That's operator error, though. I've been happy with a combo nozzle even though I leave it on straight 95% of the time. I have fogged a fully involved compartment via exterior attack, it worked pretty well.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 6/1/2013 12:57:56 PM EDT

[#24]

Fog = right to fight, left for life

Posted: 6/2/2013 4:15:26 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Fog = right to fight, left for life

right to fight, left for im a moron and gona burn the shit shit out of myself

Posted: 6/3/2013 3:02:22 PM EDT

[#26]

I prefer fog. But of course now that I AM a FOG my dept has moved to smoothbores. It just seems like a really good way to beat yourself up. Our training chief has a hard on for FDNY methods so we take the beating. And hose management inside a structure is a bitch. Limp hose requires a man at practically every corner to advance effectively. Give me some decent pressure and allow me to control the nozzle and I guarantee that I will put the fire out and not get hurt.

Posted: 6/3/2013 5:28:33 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fog = right to fight, left for life

right to fight, left for im a moron and gona burn the shit shit out of myself

Still applicable (and taught) for exterior industrial firefighting.
Holds true for pressure-fed fuel fires. Though you can still have a full fog pattern penetrated by fuel if the leak is at a high enough pressure. I like "power cone".

Posted: 6/4/2013 10:44:38 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I prefer fog. But of course now that I AM a FOG my dept has moved to smoothbores. It just seems like a really good way to beat yourself up. Our training chief has a hard on for FDNY methods so we take the beating. And hose management inside a structure is a bitch. Limp hose requires a man at practically every corner to advance effectively. Give me some decent pressure and allow me to control the nozzle and I guarantee that I will put the fire out and not get hurt.

control the nozzle with a fog nozzle? you may get a good pattern, but you wont get shit for GPM if you start backing down the nozzle

i dont get it by getting beat up with a smooth bore.....?

Posted: 6/4/2013 10:02:28 PM EDT

[#29]

I choose a nozzle that puts fire out the best way possible. I do not choose my nozzle based on what else it can do after the fire is out. I. E. Ventilation.. Although a SB will do that too with a half bail.

I also don't understand the issues the above poster is having advancing the SB. As a department we do not hit and move. We open the bail and advance with the line open with no issues. Its just a good habit to get in to because sooner or later you will have a fire you are not going to be able to shut down on.

Posted: 6/5/2013 4:15:04 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I choose a nozzle that puts fire out the best way possible. I do not choose my nozzle based on what else it can do after the fire is out. I. E. Ventilation.. Although a SB will do that too with a half bail.

I also don't understand the issues the above poster is having advancing the SB. As a department we do not hit and move. We open the bail and advance with the line open with no issues. Its just a good habit to get in to because sooner or later you will have a fire you are not going to be able to shut down on.

excellent point, being able to move with the nozzle open. its something you have to train to do. but it will save your ass one day

Posted: 6/5/2013 12:31:18 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
excellent point, being able to move with the nozzle open. its something you have to train to do. but it will save your ass one day

Not to sound obtuse but doesn't everyone train to advance the line while open?

Posted: 6/5/2013 12:40:49 PM EDT

[#32]

Oh and as to the poll question, smooth bore.
The only thing we use fogs for is decon tomfoolery.

Posted: 6/5/2013 6:15:20 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
excellent point, being able to move with the nozzle open. its something you have to train to do. but it will save your ass one day

Not to sound obtuse but doesn't everyone train to advance the line while open?

everyone should train that way, but it doesnt happen

with in my paid dept, you have companies that train more then others (just like any other dept), and for the ones that dont train often, well ya, you get the point

same with my volunteer dept, we have some high speed guys in there, but then you have the slugs who have problems with hydrants.

Posted: 6/9/2013 8:47:07 AM EDT

[#34]

Situationally dependent.

Smooth bore for 2.5in lines and high rise packs. Anyone who uses high rise pack with a fog stream hasn't seen what a plastic bag in a standpipe can do to a fog nozzle vs smooth bore. Also between pressure reducing/restricting valves causing unknown pressures at the standpipe, the reduced friction loss of the 2.5 smooth bore and ability to operate at lower pressure is much preferred over the 1.75 fog, but that's a discussion for another day.

Fog for 1.75 attack lines. The only real reason is the ability of hydraulically ventilate. The added nozzle reaction from the higher pump pressure with the 1.75 is negligible, and also helps reduce any possible kinks. That said I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with a 15/16 smooth bore by any stretch.

Speaking of stretches, what hose loads do you all prefer? (thread hijack!)

Posted: 6/9/2013 8:49:51 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fog = right to fight, left for life

right to fight, left for im a moron and gona burn the shit shit out of myself

lol

Posted: 6/9/2013 2:43:32 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Situationally dependent.

Smooth bore for 2.5in lines and high rise packs. Anyone who uses high rise pack with a fog stream hasn't seen what a plastic bag in a standpipe can do to a fog nozzle vs smooth bore. Also between pressure reducing/restricting valves causing unknown pressures at the standpipe, the reduced friction loss of the 2.5 smooth bore and ability to operate at lower pressure is much preferred over the 1.75 fog, but that's a discussion for another day.

Fog for 1.75 attack lines. The only real reason is the ability of hydraulically ventilate. The added nozzle reaction from the higher pump pressure with the 1.75 is negligible, and also helps reduce any possible kinks. That said I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with a 15/16 smooth bore by any stretch.

Speaking of stretches, what hose loads do you all prefer? (thread hijack!)

its always nice to hydraulically vent, but thats not the main reason for the type of nozzle. just sayin..........

and what do you mean by hose loads?

hows its laid out in the bed and crosslays?

how its packed in the bed and crosslays?

Posted: 6/9/2013 3:01:48 PM EDT

[#37]

I prefer the chainsaw with bullet blade, 6-foot D-handle pike pole, and an ax in my belt.............what?

Posted: 6/9/2013 5:10:00 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Speaking of stretches, what hose loads do you all prefer? (thread hijack!)

We've gone to 200' triple loads on all the crosslays and 200' of lightweight hose in 2 donuts for the bumper lines; I like both of these. They're harder to fuck up when deploying.

Posted: 6/10/2013 4:14:29 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I prefer the chainsaw with bullet blade, 6-foot D-handle pike pole, and an ax in my belt.............what?

no halligan? tsk tsk tsk

Posted: 6/10/2013 4:17:00 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Speaking of stretches, what hose loads do you all prefer? (thread hijack!)

We've gone to 200' triple loads on all the crosslays and 200' of lightweight hose in 2 donuts for the bumper lines; I like both of these. They're harder to fuck up when deploying.

good to hear guys are doing what works for them

but remember, it should make your job easier, not eliminate training, which sometimes happens

Posted: 6/10/2013 4:22:31 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
I prefer the chainsaw with bullet blade, 6-foot D-handle pike pole, and an ax in my belt.............what?

Hoses are for the young pups to drag around, I'm too old for that shit.

Posted: 6/10/2013 4:44:09 AM EDT

[#42]

Depends on the circumstances. My department has combo nozzles that we generally run in smooth-bore mode. But try using that to put out a propane tank fire.

I'm in a rural fire district with no municipal water supply.

David

Posted: 6/10/2013 5:58:59 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Depends on the circumstances. My department has combo nozzles that we generally run in smooth-bore mode. But try using that to put out a propane tank fire.

I'm in a rural fire district with no municipal water supply.

David

have you heard of guy with the last name Becker from up there?

Posted: 6/10/2013 7:13:43 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Speaking of stretches, what hose loads do you all prefer? (thread hijack!)

My department uses a flat lay on the crosslays but I have had the opportunity to use the triple layer with other departments and I prefer it.

Posted: 6/10/2013 8:39:08 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I prefer the chainsaw with bullet blade, 6-foot D-handle pike pole, and an ax in my belt.............what?

no halligan? tsk tsk tsk

Our officers carry those-' The Scepter of Command'

Posted: 6/10/2013 10:14:29 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I prefer the chainsaw with bullet blade, 6-foot D-handle pike pole, and an ax in my belt.............what?

no halligan? tsk tsk tsk

Our officers carry those-' The Scepter of Command'

fdny?

Posted: 6/11/2013 7:57:40 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I prefer the chainsaw with bullet blade, 6-foot D-handle pike pole, and an ax in my belt.............what?

no halligan? tsk tsk tsk

Our officers carry those-' The Scepter of Command'

fdny?

Buffalo.

Posted: 6/11/2013 4:41:47 PM EDT

[#48]

We run TFT's . All the surrounding vfd's run adjustables also . We carry smooth bores on the engines and can swap out if needed . But 99.9% TFT .

Posted: 6/11/2013 5:33:13 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Depends on the circumstances. My department has combo nozzles that we generally run in smooth-bore mode. But try using that to put out a propane tank fire.

I'm in a rural fire district with no municipal water supply.

David

have you heard of guy with the last name Becker from up there?

The name sounds familiar. Which department is he with?

David