Patrolling around bars during bar closing time?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Patrolling around bars during bar closing time? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/26/2011 11:43:45 PM EDT

Is patrolling around bars around closing time considered good policing? Some officers and I are having this discussion. Some say that it is good policing because that is where the most crime happens around that time. Others say that it is bad policing and makes cops look lazy.

What do you guys think?

Posted: 1/26/2011 11:45:51 PM EDT

[#1]

On second thought, maybe i'll stay up.

Posted: 1/27/2011 1:25:44 AM EDT

[#2]

Please explain the reasoning behind the "lazy" argument.

Posted: 1/27/2011 1:53:02 AM EDT

[#3]

If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:21:09 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

Hey, if you want to bust drunks, you gotta go where the drunks are, right?

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:31:37 AM EDT

[#5]

Is that just like watching cars drive in and out of the ghetto so you can make drug arrests?

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:36:29 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

Hey, if you want to bust drunks, you gotta go where the drunks are, right?

I want to bust drunks.

I don't intentionally sit on the bars to do so.

Granted, I've stopped cars coming out of the bar before, but when I parked two blocks down the street minding my own business, and you leave the bar and throw a beer can out the window of your car as you drive passed me...well, we're going to have a talk.

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:42:52 AM EDT

[#7]

lazy would be parking somewhere and hiding at 0200. or taking your code7 at 0200. being visible at high crime time in an area that is subject to crime is good police work. as long as your not sandbagging. get some honest PC and driving ops before you make that stop.

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:59:36 AM EDT

[#8]

You gotta fish where the fish are if you expect to catch any

Posted: 1/27/2011 3:35:04 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Is patrolling around bars around closing time considered good policing? What do you guys think?

my girlfriend said, "no its good for picking up chicks"

Posted: 1/27/2011 3:40:56 AM EDT

[#10]

I'm not a LEO, but my opinion of it is that it's a good place to sit to keep trouble to a minimum and stop it if it does happen. Catching obviously impaired drunks before they kill someone helps too... though it might be better to radio down the road a little ways. I think there's a balance where you don't want to hurt the bar owner's business by making them the place where cops hang around and check everyone leaving the bar... like setting up a sobriety check on the only road leaving the bar.

Posted: 1/27/2011 4:11:39 AM EDT

[#11]

In regards to DWI, it doesn't matter what I think, our DA's office won't even touch a DWI arrest that was made like that.

We used to have a unit that handled all the bars and clubs in our precinct but they weren't doing DWI enforcement.

Posted: 1/27/2011 4:18:30 AM EDT

[#12]

Hunting over bait.

Illegal in my jurisdiction.

Posted: 1/27/2011 4:19:54 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
In regards to DWI, it doesn't matter what I think, our DA's office won't even touch a DWI arrest that was made like that.

We used to have a unit that handled all the bars and clubs in our precinct but they weren't doing DWI enforcement.

As a non Leo, here is my opinion.

While the DA may not touch it, it will get the drunk off the road for the night and may "scare them straight". Im perfectly okay with Leo scoping out bars, Id rather them nab a drunk early on before they get momentum in their 4000lb car down the road and risk killing innocent people. I dont give a fuck about the drunk themselves, but the people that are minding their own business are the ones to worry about.

Yea I detest Drunk Drivers

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:41:54 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Is patrolling around bars around closing time considered good policing? Some officers and I are having this discussion. Some say that it is good policing because that is where the most crime happens around that time. Others say that it is bad policing and makes cops look lazy.

What do you guys think?

ahh around here ( i work in a college town) it is very good policing. Cuts down on the number of fights, drunk domestics, property destruction call and assault reports we end up taking.

With that said, I have little respect for those who cherry pick bars for DUI's.

J-

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:44:44 AM EDT

[#15]

Non LEO here.

Many many years ago when I was learning to drive my Dad, myself and one of his friends drove to the local diner for the requiste chicken fried steak. While we were inside someone placed an empty beer can on the bumper of our truck. After MUCH pleading Dad agreed to let me drive home. Much to my suprise I got pulled over and was royally reamed for "throwing a beer can out of the window". After the adults explained that we had only been eating dinner and no one had thrown anything out of the truck I was allowed to go on my way. Scared me eternally.

Granted this is incredibly boring but a memory of my Dad none the less.

Posted: 1/27/2011 6:44:23 AM EDT

[#16]

Our city is "dry" so there are really no bars to patrol (unless you count Applebee's, Chili's, and such). We just have to worry about the drunks leaving surrounding "wet" cities and driving back (or through) to our city.

Posted: 1/27/2011 6:51:24 AM EDT

[#17]

Had a "friend" post a brilliant comment on facebook the other day. He was off to the bar and someone warned him that officers had pulled multiple people over for DWI there that evening. His response was along the lines of "no worries, they can't do that, it's called profiling and we'll own those fucking pigs in court if they try it"

This guy is just about to get his license back after a 2 year suspension that involved drinking. Wanna bet how long it'll be until he has a chance to "own those pigs" in court?

.

Posted: 1/27/2011 7:09:24 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I'm not a LEO, but my opinion of it is that it's a good place to sit to keep trouble to a minimum and stop it if it does happen. Catching obviously impaired drunks before they kill someone helps too... though it might be better to radio down the road a little ways. I think there's a balance where you don't want to hurt the bar owner's business by making them the place where cops hang around and check everyone leaving the bar... like setting up a sobriety check on the only road leaving the bar.

We have a couple of bars that we intentionally do this to....mainly because they are notorious for over serving and basically contributing to the problem....granted the person who decides to drive is ultimately responsible, but we also need the bars help a little. We recently had a bar that had been around for years (I can remember it being around when I was a kid) get shut down by the Oregon Liquer Control Commision....reason, over serving obviosly intoxicated people and every DUII report gets sent to them, and when they start to see a pattern of drunk drivers/crashes all coming from the same place, they take notice. The bar got numerous sanctions, including not being allowed to serve hard liquor, then eventually shut down completely for still over serving beer/wine!!

We have quite a few bars that we never hear a peep outta....no fights, no real problems with over serving/DUII's etc....these are the bars we like. But if you got a bar that is a chronic problem, either because of the clientele they cater to or because they refuse to cut people off, remove disorderlys or whatever....if they are causing problems, they get our attention! That is good police work...be a lil pro-active and less reactive.

Posted: 1/27/2011 8:05:26 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

Yeah....that is like "poaching".

Posted: 1/27/2011 8:43:50 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

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Posted: 1/27/2011 8:44:50 AM EDT

[#21]

In the town I use to work in Texas we use to do bar checks around closing all the time stop in have a chat with the bartender they would sometimes point out people that they have had problems with and that we might. It also let the people know that we where around.

Now I only arrested one person from a bar and that was because he throw a brick as a squad car. Rest of the people I made them wait until someone sober came and picked them up.

Posted: 1/27/2011 8:50:17 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I like a good baton swinging contest.

TRG

Posted: 1/27/2011 8:51:50 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Just curious, if it's illegal to drink & drive, why do bars have parking lots ?

Posted: 1/27/2011 8:56:28 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Just curious, if it's illegal to drink & drive, why do bars have parking lots ?

Because it's not illegal to be a responsible adult and go drinking with your friends and a designated driver.

The DD has to park somewhere.

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Posted: 1/27/2011 9:08:34 AM EDT

[#25]

After a certain time at night, it is hard to find a completely sober driver, no matter where you look. There is nothing like having three cars swerving in front of you and having to pick which is fucking with their cell and which of the other two are drunk.

Posted: 1/27/2011 9:38:12 AM EDT

[#26]

We have an area of town with a large concentration of bars in a few block area. Over the summer we were getting aggravated assaults, criminal mischief, and all sorts of other problems. We now inundate the area with patrol cars and foot patrol at bar closing time. It has cut down on the amount of problems we have in the area. Last year I arrested 141 drunk drivers and only a small percentage came from that area at bar closing time.

Posted: 1/27/2011 9:41:14 AM EDT

[#27]

Ya gotta fish where the fish are.

If all the crime occurs in a certain part of town, then you better patrol that area.

Where should a good officer spend his/her time....patroling the area of the bar or the closed middle school? You know crime is occurring at the area of the bar so a good cop patrols that area.

Posted: 1/27/2011 9:48:32 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I greatly prefer police this practice as opposed to sobriety checkpoints where they have absolutely no reason to suspect anyone of DUI other than the mere fact that they are driving. I'm guessing it's more effective too.

Posted: 1/27/2011 9:50:32 AM EDT

[#29]

Shit I wish they did in my town.

I live a block away from about 15 bars. The street parking out front my place begins to fill up at a out 8pm, by 11 there are no spots left, but then by 8am all the cars are gone.

I've yelled at people for trying to drive when they were obviously tanked ( roadie drink in hand, can't open door, hit both the car in front and the car behind trying to unfuck their FUBAR parallel parking job, etc)

There is a solid LE presence at 2am when the bars close, but it seems to be a case of # drunks >> # LEOs.

At times it's entertaining.... Like when I took my do for a walk and saw some dude taking a chick to pound town up against a random car, or drunk people passed out in the bushes, on the street, etc
car, or the passed out people looking even more stupid than they are. (PM me if you can host a funny pic or two!)

I don't drink at all anymore so maybe I have a heightened sense of awareness with this shit, but I wish the police would set up a road block or two into and out of the neighborhood!

Posted: 1/27/2011 9:54:41 AM EDT

[#30]

I only have two bars in my jurisdiction. We wouldn't hover over them unless have been recent issues.

Posted: 1/27/2011 10:28:30 AM EDT

[#31]

My guys used to have standing orders that if they were not tied up and they had a bar on their post they would make their presence known at closing time.

It keeps the drunks from hanging out in the lot and acting up. This keeps the Mal damages and fights to a minimum and makes the DUI's think twice.

Posted: 1/27/2011 10:38:05 AM EDT

[#32]

I don't have any bars in my district now, but when I did, I preferred to recognize an intoxicated individual before they got in their car and either get them a ride home (friend or cab) or take them for public intoxication if need be instead of DWI. Four out of five got rides home. Prevention always creates less paperwork

Posted: 1/27/2011 10:41:19 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I only have two bars in my jurisdiction. We wouldn't hover over them unless have been recent issues.

Part of my jurisdiction ( one of the villages)had set a record for the most bars per square mile anywhere in the US.

Seriously....imagine old neighborhoods - a lot of homes built in the late 1800- early 1900s and about every fifth or sixth house had a first floor converted to a bar......I'm not kidding! Very segregated area with a lot of Polish, German, Irish and Italian immigrants and they all "had" their own hangouts............most are closed down now and the neighborhoods that used to be nice are just run down and section 8 housing....keeps the shiftwork interesting though............our "code name" on the radio is TVA = Typical Village Activity.

Posted: 1/27/2011 10:44:47 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I only have two bars in my jurisdiction. We wouldn't hover over them unless have been recent issues.

Part of my jurisdiction ( one of the villages)had set a record for the most bars per square mile anywhere in the US.

Seriously....imagine old neighborhoods - a lot of homes built in the late 1800- early 1900s and about every fifth or sixth house had a first floor converted to a bar......I'm not kidding! Very segregated area with a lot of Polish, German, Irish and Italian immigrants and they all "had" their own hangouts............most are closed down now and the neighborhoods that used to be nice are just run down and section 8 housing....keeps the shiftwork interesting though............our "code name" on the radio is TVA = Typical Village Activity.

Damn! I can only imagine how crazy that was!

Posted: 1/27/2011 10:50:03 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I only have two bars in my jurisdiction. We wouldn't hover over them unless have been recent issues.

Part of my jurisdiction ( one of the villages)had set a record for the most bars per square mile anywhere in the US.

Seriously....imagine old neighborhoods - a lot of homes built in the late 1800- early 1900s and about every fifth or sixth house had a first floor converted to a bar......I'm not kidding! Very segregated area with a lot of Polish, German, Irish and Italian immigrants and they all "had" their own hangouts............most are closed down now and the neighborhoods that used to be nice are just run down and section 8 housing....keeps the shiftwork interesting though............our "code name" on the radio is TVA = Typical Village Activity.

Damn! I can only imagine how crazy that was!

most of the Bars closed before my time...maybe only 1/4 are left up and running...mostly Trash hangouts. I bet there are at least 20 Bars within 1 Square mile still up and running. It can still be crazy........i worked Overtime last Friday Night...had two Bar clearing fights within one hour. Funny thing is they all "know" each other and never want to press charges......most walk home anyway because they live in the neighborhood. These Neighborhoods used to be vibrant middle class hard working factory workers.....Now they are just mostly Section 8 housing....it is a shame to see those big Ole Victorians and Colonials chopped up into 4 and 5 apartments..........very "run-down" now.

Posted: 1/27/2011 12:45:43 PM EDT

[#36]

You can get a lot of gun arrests that way, depending on the type of bar.

Posted: 1/27/2011 12:53:34 PM EDT

[#37]

I have made plenty of GOOD DUI arrests that way. To heck drunk drivers and those who aim to protect them.

Posted: 1/27/2011 1:41:34 PM EDT

[#38]

Bars close?

I can't really chime in on this that much, because we don't have a last call here in Vegas, and you're just as likely to see a packed bar at 0200 as you are at 0600 or even 1300.

That being said, it has a lot to do with the demographic of your area. If there are robberies, gang bangers running around, and dope being slung in your area and you're sitting at a bar, I say shame on you. If you live in a sleepy little area, or if the sidewalks roll up at a certain time, then you're doing the right thing, because you're in the area where trouble is most likely to happen.

I enjoy doing DUIs, but I do not sit and wait for them. I find them while I'm trolling around looking for other things as well.

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:30:40 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I don't have any bars in my district now, but when I did, I preferred to recognize an intoxicated individual before they got in their car and either get them a ride home (friend or cab) or take them for public intoxication if need be instead of DWI. Four out of five got rides home. Prevention always creates less paperwork

I do this:
Several random bar checks during the shift. If someone is obviously too trashed to drive,
I'll ask their friends to make sure that person gets a ride home. Explaining that I really don't want to
take anyone to jail on a DUI and how bad it would be if I did. Works about 99.9% of the time.

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:46:35 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
You can get a lot of gun arrests that way, depending on the type of bar.

Gun grabber

The 2nd amendment applies to Pookie too!

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:48:53 PM EDT

[#41]

every bar I go to usually has a cop parked out front, and the officer is BSing with the guy at the door or people smoking out on the sidewalk. Coincidentally, those bars have almost no problems. The officers are usually pretty cool too.

On the water, I won't poach a marina or a bar on the ICW, but will run in a pattern that takes us by all of the big popular ones to show the flag. Will also tie up and eat dinner or talk to people out on the piers or on thier boats. Being where there is a higer likelyhood of criminal acts is good police work, but driving customers away from popular hangouts isn't. There is a balacing act. If there have been repeated problems at particular places, they get a little more attention and face time.

Posted: 1/27/2011 2:57:59 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

Hey, if you want to bust drunks, you gotta go where the drunks are, right?

"Hunting the bait pile"?

I'm no cop but I do have two friends get permanent, life-long injuries from drunk drivers so I guess I have a "dog in this hunt". I'm okay with cops waiting outside bars for this.

As I used to say back in my cab driver days "The taxi is cheaper than the tow truck". They can get home without driving if they need to drink so badly.

Posted: 1/27/2011 3:10:30 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

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Just curious, if it's illegal to drink & drive, why do bars have parking lots ?

Because it's not illegal to be a responsible adult and go drinking with your friends and a designated driver.

The DD has to park somewhere.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Also, because it is not against the law to drink and then drive.....it is against the law to be impaired and drive....unfortunantly too many people don't know what "Impaired" is, until I stop them, test them, and arrest them! If everybody I stopped who said they had two beers, actually had two beers, they wouldn't end up in the back seat of my patrol car!

Posted: 1/27/2011 3:30:12 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Just curious, if it's illegal to drink & drive, why do bars have parking lots ?

There's nothing illegal about having 1-2 beers with dinner or spaced out over a couple of hours (depending on your body weight), but once you go over that you're gambling with you driving privileges (not to mention people's lives). Either get a DD or a cab; way cheaper.

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:37:49 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Um, no...and I don't see the relevance of any of those things to stopping people pulling out of the bars.

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:40:26 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I greatly prefer police this practice as opposed to sobriety checkpoints where they have absolutely no reason to suspect anyone of DUI other than the mere fact that they are driving. I'm guessing it's more effective too.

No checkpoints here, either. Not legal.

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:45:39 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Um, no...and I don't see the relevance of any of those things to stopping people pulling out of the bars.

I didn't figure you would.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 1/27/2011 7:31:17 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If you're hanging around to be in the area for the fights/vandalism/etc good policing.

If you're sitting across the street waiting for someone to leave so you can pop them for a free OWI that's weak sauce (though still entirely legal)

I guess it's weak sauce to stop speeders on the interstate, dopers leaving the crack motel, and burglars leaving your closed business district?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Um, no...and I don't see the relevance of any of those things to stopping people pulling out of the bars.

I didn't figure you would.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Yea Bite, they aren't remotely related...

Posted: 1/27/2011 7:43:21 PM EDT

[#49]

Provided you don't have more pressing concerns, it both common sense AND good police work to be in the area where the problems are most likely to occur. How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me.

Posted: 1/27/2011 7:55:57 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
It's both common sense AND good police work to be in the area where the problems are most likely to occur. How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Patrolling around bars during bar closing time? (Page 1 of 2)

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