Ladies of Arfcom,

I have a question for you all that has just arisen in my life.  I think I already know the answer, but I would much appreciate the opinion of this quadrant of the hivemind.  So, here it goes,......

So, this young lady and I have been "relating" to each other for a little over a year now.  Things have gotten zesty and there are things that we both love about each other.  Now, she is 22, from Pennsylvania, a recent college graduate, loves the idea of kids, and wants to settle down soon; I am 32, a confirmed bachelor, from Kentucky, looking forward to a deployment to Dirka-dirkastan and am up for selection to Major in the Marine Corps.  These are background details, I will do my best to keep my retelling of the story within the Code of Conduct, but if the language slips a little, then I apologize....

The folowing is a conversation (and fight) we had the other night.  Did I go over the line? Explain.

Girlie: So, what baby name do you like for a little boy?
Payback:  William Robert.
Girlie: "William RObert?"  Why THAT?  It's so,.... AMERICAN.
Payback: What's wrong with American?  We are both Americans.
Girlie:  No, it just seems, so STANDARD.
Payback: Well, I don't think so, what name do you like?
Girlie: My son is going to be named Degan Jeffrey.
Payback:
Girlie: You don't like it.
Payback: No, I don't.
Girlie: Well, why not?  I think it's special!
Payback: Well, to begin with, it's a Pole Smoker name that girls who read COsmo come up with because the sound cool.  But they don't mean anything.
Girlie: Well, what the hell does William Robert mean?
Payback:  It's the combination of my Grandfathers names.  It's Family and tradition.  It means something.
Girlie: Well, I love Deagan Jeffrey.
Payback: Well, I'll suck a dick on the Golden Gate Bridge before I ever name my firstborn Son, Degan Jeffrey!  I'd wind up calling him DJ his whole life.  What's the point of naming a kid something you'll never call him in the first place?

Now, at this point she pulled her favorite card; listing the sacrifice of her youth, her body, her vagina, and how she should be the only person who gets to pick the name of any and all children we would ever creatre together.  I respond with the "Shot heard round the world." Basically saying, if that was how she felt, she could keep living in her parents house down the hall from her little brother and that the only thing getting in her womb would be cobwebs.  

I feel like it's doomed.

Tag for hilarity.


ETA - in my opinion, she can find someone else to father Degan.
I would have also..... "calibrated" my words a bit differently.

I think it's best to find these points where you can't compromise early in the relationship, like you have; it allows you to move on without the encumbrance of children.

Just don't ever as why you're a confirmed bachelor, cause the answer is obvious.

You didnt just PCS from New York did you sir? haha anyway... bad way of approaching your answer but good stand on not naming your son after some cosmo top 10 list. Stay with American tried and true and if she cannot respect you wanting to name your son... the male child who carries on your name... how you would like... then look elsewhere. Especially if she cannot respect a family name over some european bs excuse for a name. Deagan... is that even a name?!?

I KNOW RIGHT!?!

First off, she is too young and is still immature. She needs to grow up a bit.



Secondly, you DO NOT look 32 in your photos.




Now, Degan Jeffrey? Seriously?
I am cool with the Jeffrey thing, but I like your name better. William Robert. Those are both strong names and they have a meaning for you. That cancels out her Cosmo name.

She won't communicate, (And FWIW Deagan is a fing stupid name - just my opinion) and her saying that giving birth means it is her choice shows that she is selfish.  


Drop her and hope she grows up.  Maybe in 4 or 5 years you guys can make something work, but not with her mentality right now.  (Again just my opinion.)





Is she an anti american, because that whole "it sounds American" in a bad way seems like she is.





 

No, she isn't "anti-American" she's just enamored with the whole "culture of cool".  Too much Cosmo, Sex in the CIty, and MTV.

My son's name is Charlie.  Can't go wrong with the classics.  Everyone loves the name Charlie.

-p.

Oh, one of those...  




 

This.



Honestly this is going to sound harsh, but it's the bottom line:



IF you'll act like a total dickhead over the hypothetical names of hypothetical children in a hypothetical relationship which you've already admitted you don't want or ever plan to actually HAVE, what the bloody blazes will happen when there's a REAL issue to deal with?




Sorry, but that's just beyond the pale.



What you would or would not name your kid is completely irrelevant here. Nothing wrong with either name.



Apologies for bluntness.




ETA: I agree she's immature as hell. But sounds like you've a bit of a way to go in relationships too.

The relationship is not hypothetical.  Nor is the possibility of settling down and having a family, actually.  I think I could actually settle down IF I met the right girl.  

But, otherwise on the money.  I don;t mind bluntness, I've got pretty thick skin.  

And, yes, I CAN at times be a dickhead.  Not gonna lie.  But it is not my preferred technique

Sounds to me like it is. (not your technique...what I mean is, sounds to me like the "relationship" is hypothetical.) Sorry, but what are you doing making this chick believe you're planning (or even considering planning) to have kids with her? You stated clearly that that's not in the cards at present. Newsflash....She doesn't get that. Even if you've said it, she doesn't believe it.



There is nothing wrong with wanting to name your kids something out of the ordinary, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to name your kids after a family name. Sounds to me like there wasn't even a real conversation there...it was a shallow little flirtation in which she was testing out your reaction to the idea of having kids, and it pushed some major dynamite buttons for both of you. Pushed yours because you're not there. Pushed HERS because she didn't get the reaction she wanted, which was you reacting positively to the idea of having kids, with her.



It's classic. She wants to build a nest and lay eggs. You want to go play in the sand with guns and shit that goes boom. (That is NOT meant to be derogatory, btw..if you've seen any of my posts, you'll know I'm enamored of things that go boom).



That's what this was about. It was not about what you might possibly name your non-existant kids. That's a silly conversation to be having.



Mature women don't do this. Mature men don't let their women think there's more there than there really is.



Time to grow up a bit. And when you do, she may not seem as appealing.



ETA:  You changed some things in that post.  And it's not what it sounded like in your OP.  So which is it? "Confirmed bachelor" is incongruent with "might want to settle down and have kids."

Okay, "confirmed bachelor" is a little strong.  I got burned REALLY bad in my mid-20s by somebody I had every intention to marry.  For the last 7.5 years I have been a "proud bachelor", all about the good times, great oldies, and things that go BOOM.

On occasion, I do think about getting married and having kids. (But, I also think about killing people on the Highway, too.)

Anyway, I have it in the back of my mind, but,... I guess it will just take a very special girl to get me thinking in the matrimony way again.

Then time to let this girl know that she is not it.



And NOT because you don't want to name your imaginary kid something unusual.



ETA:  And good sex with her is not a good enough reason to keep her hanging on.  Then you will be a  confirmed dickhead.

Dang!  You ARE a tough cookie, aren't you?

Valid points.  Very true.  And I'm not simply using her for the sex.

^ this.

If you think you want to get married, she is not the right kind of person to be spending your time with.  There is plenty of people out there, do what you enjoy and don't look for something special right off the bat.  

~Most people in good relationships that I know of had a very rough first meeting with their SO, up to one who cursed him out at a restaurant on their first date.



 

Sorry.  Went to get a steak and the service sucked.  I'm not far enough into the malbec to have mellowed out yet.

Haha. She'll fall in line.

Oooohh, I HATE bad service when steak is involved!!!  

Every time you eat a steak a Hippie's hacky-sack goes down the sewer.

Remember this truth my son...

Every woman gets married hoping she'll change him
Every guy gets married hoping she'll never change

Think on that for a while.....

<married 29 years this Nov.>

You know, it's really shallow of me in some ways. There are far greater troubles in the world, any of which would be more deserving of anger or energy.




But yes, bad service for a burger and fries is not nearly as aggravating as bad service for a steak.



ETA:  I am a hippie.  And I loves me some steak.

Not every woman.  But usually this is true, and especially on the first marriage.  In my observation, getting a little older and figuring out for herself who SHE is, is what enables a woman to find a man she can live with and accept him for who and what he is.



That ain't happenin' when you're 22.  

i don't think you stepped over the line-after relating it to bulletsponge 6 (the wifey)- she disagrees. lol oh well, i agree that name is super kamahamaha ghey.

Meh - I will disagree on this.



In youth people look to find the secret perfect in people.  They see the possibility of what they want in most everyone and try hard to get the part they think/hope is there to come out - likely why young girls like the bad boys.. And why so many young guys go for the obnoxious cheerleader type.

In age you learn that what you see is more often what you get and you don't waste your time on lost causes.

First, WAY YOUNG= immature!!!! She's ganna have a baby then complain cause she doesn't have a life....and she gave up her youth yadda yadda.....
Second.....Degan is a stupid name...WIlliam Robert is strong! Everyone has gotten sooo creative that we have lost the good ole josephs (my sons name) christophers, Jeffreys(stepson)...ect. Third SHE wants to have a baby so she should EVEN pull the my vagina my sacrifice...balh blah blah.........and a year is way too early for that kind of talk in my opinion!!!!  (And YES I am a chick)!!!  ––Good Luck!

I remember seeing a study somewhere of people who have goofy names, & how it plays into their level of success & so forth....I'll try to find it....

Just tell her this is akin to her naming the Kid DeQuon because it is different.

Different doesn't always equal good, Just like more isn't always better.

Kids can be brutal & she want's to give a kid a puss name to start off life ??

Why don't you try this one with her: If its a Boy, you get to name it, If it's a girl, she gets to name it.


P.S. Semper Fidelis Mr. Payback.


Edit: try these http://www.thedigeratilife.com/blog/index.php/2007/07/02/name-discrimination-how-it-affects-job-and-career-choices-life-status-overall-success/

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,6024,00.html

Uh, you want to name your son "Billy Bob"?  :-)

Unusual names are cool (mine is very unusual IRL).  They build character.  But they should have personal meaning.

Oh, and I got so worked up about the steak I completely forgot to say, WTF are you doing with a woman ten years younger than you when you're only 32?



That's a trophy.



Go find a woman and leave that little girl alone to find a boy to play with. She needs some time to grow up.



You need time to play in the sand.



The longer you drag it out, the more it will break her.



Be nice when you do it. And make her know it is not her fault. It's you.



Even if it's a lie, tell her this. You want to play in the sand. Go do it.

+1

22y/o girls, while lots fun to flirt and goof with, just don`t have much substance for us thirty somethings, nor should they. So, less serious contemplation, more light hearted nonsensical fun!  She will start to annoy you otherwise.

Challenge her to name some great people named Degan who have made an impact over the last millenium, while you reel off Robert the Bruce, William of Orange, etc.

You both went over board in the heat of the moment.  You should compromise, not declare what the name will be as though one or the other "owns" the child.  

She said her first born would be named Degan Jeffrey no matter what you said, basically.  Of course, you don't want to be on the peripheral of fathering (you can use this in your making up discussion), so you want a say.  However, you'll be traveling a lot and SHE'LL be the one minding the store, so a compromise is in order even if this is early for such a decision (one that makes long married couple go nuts sometimes).   Besides, she is only 22... she's got a few years of mellowing ahead of her, you have to realize that.  Some good, some not so good.

After succumbing to some underhanded manipulative practices by my husband, my first born got a very old-fashioned name (Morris, but I at least rescued him from being called Elmer, which may have been a form of manipulation in and of itself, the hubby is sneaky).

When I wised up, and number 2 came along.  I insisted on having a handful of names BEFORE I gave birth.  The compromise went like this, "I'll pick a list of names that are acceptable to me.  You pick 5 of these names; I'll choose the final name after the baby is born."  Now, I didn't pick all weird modern names that are asexual and made up.  I picked a variety (to be fair); I even consulted with him for any ideas for the list (more than fair).  When he was born, we were down to 3 names (and I STILL like his name).

If I had my druthers, I would have waited until the child was about 2 (an old traditional way) to select a real name.  Some folks consider it testing fate to name a child before then, besides it's all sweet nothings until then anyway.  My sweet little pill bug, bunny love.

Degan Jeffrey sounds like an underwear model's name.  How about this?  Since Jeff isn't so terrible... do it this way.  Your first will be Robert Degan; your next will be Jeffrey William.  Good luck with your young filly.  By the time a baby is really on the way, she may have changed her mind again.

That would qualify as a problem.

Your responses might've been a bit harsh, but I can related.  Degan Jeffrey IS a pole smoker name.

Hey wait a minute! I've seen pictures of you. You aren't old enough to be that wise!

Well stated, Madam.

SMS-ret

I know some really responsible, level headed, well rounded, down to earth  23 y/o "girls" that can totally hold their own with you thirty somethings.

Careful Snaps, or all the 30-something guys will be moving to Texas.  I'm thinkin you Texans don't want the influx.....

My availability status is currently set as "Not accepting applications" at this time.    Or any time in the near future.  

anyone who thinks a name is what makes their little snowflake "special" and "unique" is just setting up poor little degan the emo woos for failure.

you're 32? Damn.

I think both parents should have a say in the kid's name, it shouldn't be up to just one person. She sacrifices her blah blah blah, but men put a lot into it too. You could have phrased it a little nicer and spared her delicate feelings, but I don't think you were in the wrong.

ETA: If I ever have a son, his name will be Frank (NOT FRANKLIN). Always loved that solid name.

There are always those rare exceptions.

I wasn't going to say this yesterday because it's beside the point, but, since the argument coninues...



For you who really think it's a name out of cosmo or something...



Degan (or Deagan) is an old Celtic Name. It's Scot.



Come to the Highland games next spring and tell those Scots that they're pole smokers. Go ahead. Walk right up to one of those truck-sized guys from Clan Dugan when he's tossing a telephone pole end-over-end and tell him he's a weenie wuss.



Old and ignorant is not better than young and silly.



Just cuz we're not used to hearing something every day does not make it unworthy, even on Arfcom. Our American names––or their pronunciations––are actually some of the more newfangled ones.

Payback, though I really like how you talk to women, I don't think you should be talking baby names with a cosmo reader. She's not worthy of you and it's cruel to get the little girl's hopes up. Be absolutely sure you deny this one your essence, or you'll end up with a baby momma and some very good looking little bastards named Shyanne and Deegan.

You're way too hot to take any crap from her. Lay down the law or give her a purse dog she can name whatever she wants as a parting gift.

I was younger and foolish once upon a time.  I learn from my mistakes.




 

If I met a guy named Deagan who was competing in the Highland games in a kilt... I might feel differently about it.  Instead of being an underwear model, he'd be an I wonder if he wears underwear model.  

Well, as a Grade 3 Piper, I am no stranger to Highland Games.  However, most of the Scottish Heavy Athletics competitors I ever met (who aren't named Bubba) had names like Angus, Ian, or Hamish with the occasional Dougall and Shamus thrown in.  So, arcane Scottish names aside, Deegan still = Pillow bitting cock chugger. In the opinion of THIS Marine!!!

Now, to calm some fears, I am not "leading on" the girlie in question, I just think she likes me a little too much and I like her a little not enough.  I have been VERY careful to ensure strict accountability of my essence, strapped and wrapped at all times.  So there has been no,..., uh,... lubrication of her gearbox. IF, ya know what I mean....

Most of what I have gotten out of this has been very helpful, and stuff that has occurred to me in my saner moments already.  I was just wondering if, with a more mature mate, had I let fly with some of that verbage if I could have expected a frying pan to the grape?

General Ripper is that you?????




 

Possibly.  A more mature person would probably be more open to discussion and wouldn't have prodded the argument to where it got to - the dismissals by way of "my son will be named" nothing more nothing less, and the it is my body that will carry it crappola.



Those are all things that provoke a fight, as much as your language would.  Neither of you made it better, and
standing your ground is not going to work all the time, there are
somethings that people won't compromise on - and some rightfully so, it sounds like you and
her have found a topic that you are both being stubborn about.



It isn't about you or your partner, and maybe you need some time to learn to be able to compromise as well.





 

If you had thrown that crap at me you would have seen my butt for the last time as it was walking away. I would have written you off as unable to participate in a normal, civil relationship.



Of course, I wouldn't have been trolling for a proposal either, but I'm not 22 any more and would have said no if you'd offered one. I'm jaded that way. A guy needs to have his shit together or I walk away. She hasn't learned that yet, so you're lucky. But you do not need to abuse that knowledge. You need to get your shit together, decide what place she fills in your life, and be honest with her about it. If you are honest, and she's smart, I expect you'll see her butt for the last time as it's walking away.



There are not many smart 22-year old women, though. We buy your guys's bullshit when we're that age. Maybe that's why you're with her instead of a woman closer to your own age?



Sorry if I'm back to blunt, bu it's something to think about. Snow likes guys who kick her around verbally, and I'm betting she can kick right back. She'll tell you she likes to play rough. I've seen her say it on the forum, right here. That's not so of most of us. It doesn't bode well for a being able to live togeher in any kind of enjoyable relationship. Fighting all the time is only fun in the movies. In real life, living with an ass gets old––no matter the gender of the ass.



Oh, and btw, you keep that attitude about anything you don't much like, Mr. Marine...you'll go a long way in the Corps.  In relationships that work?  Not so much.

After reading this thread I don't feel so bad. I thought that I was the only one that had the "proud bachelor" point of view, or at least everyone at work makes me think that way.