thanks for the help you've provided along the way, but I think it may be time to move on.

you've provided suggestions on books to read and things to try/do to help my gf overcome her self esteem issues.

I keep hearing her saying the same things over and over.  Always bitching about not being able to get ahead or people have done or said something to her.

I tried helping her ID some issues and some processes that may help her help herself.  While the "boarders' book Queenie recommended was well received and she could identify with
many of the things in that book, she basically said she could never do some of the things recommended. she doesn't want to be perceived as "bitchy".

there's plenty more but I won't drag this out here.  I honestly can't see going on too much more.  
It's a shame too, she is a nice person who's had some shitty people treat her like crap   I tried to help, but how much  can a person be expected to "wait" for things to get better?
I alway hear that if you should never want to change someone, it's a sign that they're not the one for you.(~).


anyway, thanks for your help.  I think it's helped me to be a better friend.

Sorry hon, better luck next time.

I know you're signing off, but I have to say that attempting to change someone is a reflection of the person trying to do the changing.  If you found the perfect woman that you never wanted to change, I would be very surprised if she were human or weren't putting on a front.  All the best.

There are lots of people out there who love nothing better than to piss in other people's cornflakes.
Life is too short to allow people like that affect you or your life.

Case in point:
The company that employs me went through several rounds of lay-offs since November.
For months, a number of people have been telling me that I was "on the list".
I simply kept working on the project that I was assigned.
After all was said and done, I had a chat with the corporate VP, who told me that I was never on any sort of list.
This kind of thing has happened to me more than once...and yet I'm still employed here.

Sounds like your ex-GF has some chronic self-esteem issues that sound pretty serious.
You're not going to be able to fix her, she must want to do that for herself.
One thing I have learned is that a woman can really make or break a man.
Miss "right" can potentially help to propel a man to greatness...the wrong one can virtually destroy him.

Best advice I can give is to keep working towards creating your own little fiefdom and living as best you can (which is pretty much what I am doing).
Sooner or later the right person is going to come along...but I wouldn't make that a high priority.
Worry more about yourself first.

Sounds like you're about due for some recoil therapy...

I don't know if I got this point across or not, but she recognizes her problems and would like to overcome them.  
I have tried to help her in a positive way at her own pace.
she stuck in a rut that only she can climb out of.   she's down on herself and basically takes things as it's her own fault.

Nobody in this world can stake a claim to being perfect...we all have our hang-ups, issues, and baggage.
Seems to me like it is going to depend upon how much you love and value the woman.
If she is really willing to commit herself to you and honestly "has your back"...then she is worth her weight in gold and I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.
Looks like you have already made the decision to end it though...hope it is for the best.

she is a really nice person, but do you really know what it's like to be around someone who lacks confidence and really low self esteem?

I'm not talking about someone who puts the TP on backwards or leaves dirty dishes in the sink overnight.. I'm talking about someone who can't stand up for themselves, speak out, speak up or (and the biggest issue) can't have an opinion about something because she doesn't want to be 'wrong'.  She doesn't know what to do or how to act in a relationship (her words) (and these are just some of the bigger issues)


I'm the best thing to happen to her and the nicest guy (her words) and I'm just being who I am.  She still feels that she is not worthy of my attention.
she didn't have any BF's growning up..got married to someone she shouldn't have (alcohol and drug problems) had a kid, got divorced and has basically raised her on her own w/o any help from anyone (16years now, and she's a good kid).  Our relationship is the longest one she's ever had.  Everyone else treated her like crap.

there is a LOT of work required here.  I haven't given up (until now (and I haven't 'officially" done that with her)) but how long should I go on hearing the same things and yet she doesn't do anything about them?  I do not want to be added to the list of guys who were assholes here, but how do I draw the line or get her to see that she may be destroying one of the better things in her life (not to make it sound like I'm all that, but based on the things she's told me).?

Out of curiosity...
Are you sure she's not just being nice and trying to politely end the relationship with one of those, "it's not you, it's me" clichés?
Just askin'...because that's kinda what it sounds like to me.

If so, I'd would respectfully give her what she wants, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on.

no, it's not the brushoff.

Sorry things are rough right now.  Unfortunately you can only help someone that wants to be helped.  They have to be willing to make necessary changes.  Some of the things she is dealing with are difficult to change, but it can happen.  Has she talked to a professional that can maybe help her with some of  challenges that she's facing?  Sometimes it's hard to help someone we care for because we are too close to the situation.  Only you can decide what's enough.  Best of luck and I hope you both find some happiness and peace one way or the other.

Well then it simply going to be a matter of how much you two value each other and how much you both are willing to overlook.
In my book...self-esteem issues and problems being assertive (shyness?) seem rather insignificant...but that's just me.

It's those big problems...like clinical depression, an addictive personality (or outright chemical dependency), or a type 1or 2 control-freak mentality are the things that freak me out.

I'm kinda that way too though...I have my own self-esteem issues.
Take apart a computer, troubleshoot it and put it back together or put one together from scratch...no problem, actually fun.
Take an odd-shaped 55,000-pound part and chain it up with two 25-ton capacity gantry cranes, pick it up and flip it over...no problem.
Work in close proximity to a 3-axis cnc-mill with razor-sharp titanium-nitride coated tungsten-carbide cutters spinning at 1000's of rpms...no problem, do it all the time.
A woman?...I fall to pieces and crap myself...usually wind up looking like either a stalker,a total idiot, or completely oblivious oaf.

We all have our problems.  

Edit: I like tall_saangel's post...

Arctangent one day I'm buying you a beer.

Ha!  You know...
I have been so darned busy with 70-80 hour weeks at work (F-18 wing tooling/robotics for Boeing Advanced R&D at their Wichita, KS shop)  that I have literally forgotten when I have sat down long enough to have a beer!
Damn I need to fix that!