I have often thought that no USGI had more responsibility, and was more successful at the terrible moment of truth during the Battle of Gettysburg, than Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. If his people had blown it at Little Round Top, it is entirely possible that this country would have been permanently rendered asunder, as Confederate Troops would have had easy access to the Union flank, and the Union was pretty played out at that point. All we know of American history would be changed.

His one action in that several hour stretch staved off the greatest threat this republic has ever faced in any war - I defy you to name one other pivotal event that could have changed the outcome of any American war as quickly and completely as Chamberlain's victory over the Rebs on that fateful July day...

It was truly a Spartanesque moment, except God chose to keep Chamberlain alive for His other works.

Maybe… maybe not.

If Chamberlain had folded the battle MIGHT have been lost, and even if the battle had been lost the South was still likely not going to win the war with the fall of Vicksburg.

IMO there were plenty of moments just as pivotal or more so during the Revolution in which the wrong choice could have ended the Union before it started.

Chamberlain was a great and important solider either way.

Well he did seem to have a natural brilliance and  talent for military leadership(for a civilian college professor)!! But the best soldier ever, ehh! I don't know?!?!?

It doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out if your flank collpases your line will be rolled up in a ball and decimated or captured, and Chamberlains superior officers  made it clear to him it would happen!!!

That said, for him to come up with what he did out of desperation and make it work, he had some well trained troops(testimony to his leadrship and other officers of the 20th Maine!) and Knck for thinking spur of the moment and not getting locked into "Book Knowledge" as opposed to "Tactically Adaptable Thinking" neccesary on a fast movign battlefield where everything changes by the moment!!!

How many officers were defeated in History because they wanted to do it only "by the book" and couldn't adapt even when they saw "the Book" was getting their men slaughtered !!!  

Robert E Lee is the greatest soldier(and man) that ever lived.

If the rebs pushed up one more time. They would have wiped Chamberlain off the map and swung behind the union forces.

Chaimberlain rose to the occasion and knew exactly how precarious his position was. Chaimberlain won Gettysburg for the Union.

He was awarded the MOH, and died of his wounds nearly 50 years later(1916?).

Not sure he was the greatest ever, but certainly great.

+1

Maybe Washington's suprise on the Hessian garrison at Trenton in 1776.  If he had blundered it is quite possible there would not have even been a United States of America.

A Spartanesque moment (I guess you mean "spartanesque" to mean a group facing certain death sacrifices themselves to inspire their nation) in American history would have been the Alamo.

I still admire Chamberlain.

The scene in Gettysburg where he's informed that his men are practically out of ammo and he responds with, "They have to be as tired as we are- fix bayonets!" always gets to me.

A great man, indeed.

read his bio...
he was a very ambitious person.

Quoted: ....... it is entirely possible that this country would have been permanently rendered asunder......

As opposed to it's current condition?.............

He was great at Gettysburg.  I also think he shined at Petersburg and the formal surrender of the Confederate Army

Quoted: The battle of Gettysberg wasn't even Chamberlain's crowning moment as a soldier, in my opinion. Read about his horrible wounds that followed in later battles and his incredible determination to return to command. Joshua Chamberlain was harder than woodpecker lips! Perhaps not the country's best 'professional soldier' but perhaps the country's best 'citizen soldier'.

"Assigned to brigade command in June of 1864 he was wounded 12 days later in the assault on Petersburg. He was promoted to Brigadier General on the spot by General Grant, then carried to the rear, where a surgeon declared that he would certainly die from the wound. He recovered to rejoin the army in November but was forced by his wound to return to Maine to recuperate. He came back again during the Petersburg siege during which he was wounded for a fourth time. Chamberlain took part in the Appomattox Campaign and was given the honor of commanding the troops that formally accepted the surrender of the Confederate Army. "

He is popular because the libs like him.  College professor at war etc.

I don't think it would have mattered if Little Round Top had fallen.  The union would have recaptured it--they had one and a half un-committed corps uncommitted.  Or the union could have fallen back and there were plans for the--the Pipe Creek plan written by Meade before the battle.

GunLvr

No. That distinction goes to Audrey Murphy.

He's got the medals to prove it, too.

I have visited JLC's home in Brunswick Maine several times.

Some things about him you didn't know.....

1. During the war, he had 4 horses shot out from underneath him.
2. On display at his museum is his sword scabbard that clearly shows where a musket ball was deflected.
3. He had a speech impediment (despite the speech impediment, he taught oratory and debate classes at Bowdoin Collage - he could mask the impediment very well).
4. He taught every class at Bowdoin collage at one time or another, except mathematics.
5. He was a horrible carpenter. He could not fix anything well at his home - examples of the bad carpentry exist today.  
6. He was madly in love with his wife, despite the fact that she was a inept wife and mother.
7. He was shot several times during the war.
8. His home is right next to Bowdoin collage. During the 1970's his home was rented out to collage kids as apartments. They trashed a good part of the home. It is now being restored.


Most importantly about JLC, there was another skermish that he was involved in during the war that is just as impressive as his stance at Gettysburg. At his home/museum the tour guide relayed a story of how during one skermish, his men were fighting close combat with a Rebel force. It had been raining for weeks and most  the men in the skermish  were covered in mud from head to toe. Chaberlin recognized this and pretended to be a Rebel officer (he too was covered in mud) and ordered a Rebel retreat. The Rebs thought they saw a Rebel officer on their side of the battle screaming "RETREAT" and retreated to poor ground. Chamberlain was almost shot by his own men before being recognized and led the attack on the disorganized Rebel soldiers who were then being told by officers to "ADVANCE.".

BTW....he also became the governor of Maine.

Great, humble man. I would put him the top 5 of all time.

Quoted: The scene in Gettysburg where he's informed that his men are practically out of ammo and he responds with, "They have to be as tired as we are- fix bayonets!" always gets to me.

"BAYONEEEEEEEEEEETS!"

"Left flank, Right Wheel....."

"RIGHT WHEEEEEL!"

"Charge...."

<Bugle Call>

"CHAAAARGE!"

...and away they went....




Damn. Just TYPING that scene brings a tear to my eye. Watching it makes me cry like a baby.

The pic is "Chamnerlain's Charge" by Mort Kunstler. I have a beautifully-framed limited edition print of it; one of my prize posetions (currently being held hostage by the BSTBEW.

Quoted: Maybe Washington's suprise on the Hessian garrison at Trenton in 1776.  If he had blundered it is quite possible there would not have even been a United States of America. A Spartanesque moment (I guess you mean "spartanesque" to mean a group facing certain death sacrifices themselves to inspire their nation) in American history would have been the Alamo. I still admire Chamberlain.

Correct time period, but I'd argue that the Battle of Sararoga was the most critical of the war.  Victory there assured that the internal civil war between England and some colonies turned into a World War.  Regardless of what we think about contemporary France - the Saratoga victory brought their full weight to bear and tipped the balance of power on this continent in the favor of the colonists.

2 incredible and successful soldiers played pivotal roles there; Dan Morgan (of "Cowpens" fame later in the war) and Benedict Arnold.  Arnold may have been the best pure soldier of the entire war.  Consider his actions at Freeman's Farm during Saratoga:

Before the enemy's flanks could be rallied, Gen. Benedict Arnold -who had been relieved of command after a quarrel with Gates- rode onto the field and led Learned's brigade against the German troops holding the British center. Under tremendous pressure from all sides, the Germans joined a general withdrawal into the fortifications on the Freeman Farm. Within an hour after the opening clash, Burgoyne lost eight cannon and more than 400 officers and men. Flushed with success, the Americans believed that victory was near. Arnold led one column in a series of savage attacks on the Balcarres Redoubt, a powerful British fieldwork on the Freeman Farm. After failing repeatedly to carry this position, Arnold wheeled his horse and, dashing through the crossfire of both armIes, spurred northwest to the Breymann Redoubt. Arriving just as American troops began to assault the fortification, he joined in the final surge that overwhelmed the German soldiers defending the work. Upon entering the redoubt, he was wounded in the leg. Had he died there, posterity would have known few names brighter than that of Benedict Arnold.

Chamberlain has become my new "hero" somewhere during the last 4 months as I discovered the Civil War and the men that fought it. Everyday I hear a new story about this genuine man I get chills. I think that is what does it for most people when it comes to Chamberlain, he was a genuine man who loved his men and knew that a great leader takes care of his men first and foremost.

Best soldier ? He'd get my vote right now.

I'm heading to Maine to see my best man in the fall and he is taking me on a JLC tour. I can't wait! He says this guy is like a God up in Maine.

Bayoooooonetttttees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being in the right place at the right time says nothing of a man. It is the man who recognizes where and when the right time and place ought to be, then manipulates events to create his desired reality, that is worthy of the highest praise.

I have that same pic Zaphod. It's a nice one. If you ever make it to Gettysburg bring lotsa money. They have one that is incredible. The detail on Chamberlain is fantastic. Looks just like him. It was a little out of my range though

Quoted: I have that same pic Zaphod. It's a nice one. If you ever make it to Gettysburg bring lotsa money. They have one that is incredible. The detail on Chamberlain is fantastic. Looks just like him. It was a little out of my range though

Measures about two feet by three feet?

Measures about two feet by three feet?

Yep that's the one. Also the one I have that is the same as yours is not a limited edition. I cheaped out and brought a copy. Yours is probably much clearer than mine. I noticed that with some of the others there too.

Quoted: Measures about two feet by three feet? Yep that's the one. Also the one I have that is the same as yours is not a limited edition. I cheaped out and brought a copy. Yours is probably much clearer than mine. I noticed that with some of the others there too.

Yep. It makes a world of difference.

I have about a dozen of his limited edition prints (the one above being one of my favorites), as well as one or two by other artists. I bloody well went broke back in the mid-90's buying his artwork and having it framed.

Which is why my STBEW will get my prints over my dead, cold, decomposing body!

Actually if Longstreet had obeyed Lee's orders, The Southern Army would have flanked Chamberlin and the rest would be history. The plan was an attack on LRT to draw the Union Army in and then a flank movement behind by Longstreet. Longstreet did not follow through and the plan fell apart.

Quoted: Robert E Lee is the greatest soldier(and man) that ever lived.

+1.............along with George Washington.   (Lee also admired him greatly in his life)

Too bad the Confederacy didn't win the war

Quoted: Robert E Lee is the greatest soldier(and man) that ever lived.

Easy there
You should research ole GW a bit more.
Lee, great guy that he was, still lost a winnable war.
The loss at Gettysburg is largely atributable to Lee.
Great soldiers don't fight at the time and place of their enemy's choosing.

Quoted: I defy you to name one other pivotal event that could have changed the outcome of any American war as quickly and completely as Chamberlain's victory over the Rebs on that fateful July day...

What if Fat Man and Little Boy were duds?

Quoted: Actually if Longstreet had obeyed Lee's orders, The Southern Army would have flanked Chamberlin and the rest would be history. The plan was an attack on LRT to draw the Union Army in and then a flank movement behind by Longstreet. Longstreet did not follow through and the plan fell apart.

It wasn't the Southern Army that would have made the flanking move, it was Longstreet's Corps.  And they would have run right into the Union V Corps that was arriving on the battlefield.  Not to mention the Union Army's VI Corps that was right behind it

The Army thinks highly of him. The leadership manual has a chapter devoted to him.

Quoted: Quoted: I defy you to name one other pivotal event that could have changed the outcome of any American war as quickly and completely as Chamberlain's victory over the Rebs on that fateful July day... What if Fat Man and Little Boy were duds?

What if we'd not broken the JN-25 code before Midway?

Quoted: Quoted: I defy you to name one other pivotal event that could have changed the outcome of any American war as quickly and completely as Chamberlain's victory over the Rebs on that fateful July day... What if Fat Man and Little Boy were duds?

They'd have still crushed the unfortunate japs they landed on

He was a Yankee....so NO

Essayons

Quoted: Quoted: ....... it is entirely possible that this country would have been permanently rendered asunder...... As opposed to it's current condition?.............

If the South had won, I'm pretty sure none of us would have ever heard of the
"Assault Weapon Ban"........

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ....... it is entirely possible that this country would have been permanently rendered asunder...... As opposed to it's current condition?............. If the South had won, I'm pretty sure none of us would have ever heard of the "Assault Weapon Ban"........

sig line material there....

Quoted: Quoted: The scene in Gettysburg where he's informed that his men are practically out of ammo and he responds with, "They have to be as tired as we are- fix bayonets!" always gets to me. "BAYONEEEEEEEEEEETS!" "Left flank, Right Wheel....." "RIGHT WHEEEEEL!" "Charge...." <Bugle Call> "CHAAAARGE!" ...and away they went.... www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/prodimg/mk-cw-016.jpg Damn. Just TYPING that scene brings a tear to my eye. Watching it makes me cry like a baby. The pic is "Chamnerlain's Charge" by Mort Kunstler. I have a beautifully-framed limited edition print of it; one of my prize posetions (currently being held hostage by the BSTBEW.

Where can I get a copy of that!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

There are so many wonderful soldiers from the Continental USA, I don't know how to say that any one is the best.

I deeply admire Chamberlain.

I deeply admire Robert E. Lee

I deeply admire Longstreet (I'm not sure the South ever understood what an asset they had in Longstreet.  Incredibly under-appreciated man.)

I deeply admire George Washington

I deeply admire York

I deeply admire the servicemen who invaded Normandy.

I deeply admire the servicemen who fought the Japs in the Pacific

Etc.

We have so many men to admire from our country.

Quoted: The Army thinks highly of him. The leadership manual has a chapter devoted to him.

I, too, think highly of him.
Our greatest soldier, we have very few generals who have lost wars.  He happens to be on that list.  Alone, that disqualifies him as "Our country's greatest soldier"
Many admirable traits, great man indeed, but not our greatest.  

Quoted: There are so many wonderful soldiers from the Continental USA, I don't know how to say that any one is the best. I deeply admire Chamberlain. I deeply admire Robert E. Lee I deeply admire Longstreet (I'm not sure the South ever understood what an asset they had in Longstreet.  Incredibly under-appreciated man.) I deeply admire George Washington I deeply admire York I deeply admire the servicemen who invaded Normandy. I deeply admire the servicemen who fought the Japs in the Pacific Etc. We have so many men to admire from our country.

There's a lot to be said here. The country is full of people that did incredible things in defense of our nation that were not recognized. For every medal awarded, I'd sure like to know how many deeds went unreported.

John Q. Anybody, ETS'd in late '45 and went home and raised a family having saved his entire platoon/squad/company/whatever. The deed went unreported and John never thought anything about it. No medal, no recognition.

He's a hero, too.

a more accurate print of the charge...


Chamberlain ordered the charge but Lt Holman Melcher led the charge

read his bio. very intresting.
Joshua Chamberlain: The Soldier and the Man
by Edward Longacre

Quoted: Quoted: The scene in Gettysburg where he's informed that his men are practically out of ammo and he responds with, "They have to be as tired as we are- fix bayonets!" always gets to me. "BAYONEEEEEEEEEEETS!" "Left flank, Right Wheel....." "RIGHT WHEEEEEL!" "Charge...." <Bugle Call> "CHAAAARGE!" ...and away they went.... www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/prodimg/mk-cw-016.jpg Damn. Just TYPING that scene brings a tear to my eye. Watching it makes me cry like a baby. The pic is "Chamnerlain's Charge" by Mort Kunstler. I have a beautifully-framed limited edition print of it; one of my prize posetions (currently being held hostage by the BSTBEW.

Looks like I have a new wallpaper for my desktop.

Not only did Jeff Daniels play the role so well. He almost looked like him

I'm not even gonna read the rep;ies to this......I got the firestorm with 54 repilies....

I will state...as a died in the wool, reb....


DAMN HIM!

Heh...All said...Proibably better he won out.

Strong will....There is somthing to be said...Right decision, right time....

Actually, that's it....Just THE right descision...THE right time.

Quoted: I'm not even gonna read the rep;ies to this......I got the firestorm with 54 repilies.... I will state...as a died in the wool, reb.... DAMN HIM! Heh...All said...Proibably better he won out. Strong will....There is somthing to be said...Right decision, right time.... Actually, that's it....Just THE right descision...THE right time.

I agree. I have to admit there were greats on both sides. Thats undeniable.

If Lee was so great, how come Grant whipped him?

Grant and Scott were the only generals on either side with a clear strategic view of the war, and Scott was deskbound. Grant was also the guy you'd want in charge on the battlefield if things went to hell. He could always distill a situation to its essence, decide what to do, issue clear and unambiguous orders, and see that the were carried out. He'd be a demigod to the people around here if he had worn gray.

Chamberlain was not all that ambitious compared to a lot of others...Even if LRT had "fallen" on that last advance, the southerners were just about spent (just as tired, and probably almost if not out of ammo) and the North had a fresh corps almost on top of the action and the South had minimal reinforcements, LRT would have been back in Union hands without a significant change o=int the total picture except for more casualties, and the the Southerners may have been even more demoralized then they were.

I'ld be hard picked to pick the greatest "soldier" in the Civil War.  For the purposes of discussion let's limit to senior officers, I've seen some discussions of a few Sergeants that were impressive, but none might be thought of as turning or saving the war.  Nobody was consistently successful on either side.  Although Grant was probably moreso than anybody else.  Belmont, Forts Henry and Donelson, Shiloh, Vicksburg Campaign, overall relief of Chattanooga Campaign, General in Chief.  He might not have been the greatest tactician, and his tactics weren't all that out of the ordinary.  His final strategy was basically Winfield Scott's Anaconda Plan.  But he was persistent, and good at picking, developing and using his subordinates, and handling the politician officers.  Lee was almost as good if not better than Grant, in picking, developing and using subordinates, but Heth more or less was disobeying his orders when he moved into Gettysburg and brought on the general engagement.  Ewell stopped before Cemetary Ridge, Stuart was off in never never land and Lee didn't get the intel he needed in time.  But fate dealt Lee a few more prima donas than Grant.  Lee was unable to get the political machine in Richmond and by extension in all the South to adequately supply his army, and the South could have done much better, but Lee couldn't get what he needed from Davis, who was unable to convince the Southern Governors that Lee needed what they had but wouldn't give on.  Not totally Lee's fault.  What Lee was able to do with inferior forces against superior forces with inferior Generals was magnificent.  

Several Generals had one or two major successes.  TJ Jackson became Stonewall at 1st Bull Run and the myth helped because he was at least eccentric if not  worse.  He could not have maf=de it if it wasn't for ending up working for Lee.  He could never have led an Army .  His raid on Harper's Ferry and the hauling away of the RR engines may have helped the South  more than anything else he did.  (The South could not produce it's own engines)

Sherman's March to the Sea, although impressive,was nothing compared to what he had his Army do marching North, especially across the flooded swamps and rivers of South Carolina.  And the Treaty he and Johnston reached at the end of the war would have eliminated Reconstruction and was later repudiated by the politcal Leadership, mostly because of it's extreme leniency and expansion to cover ALL  Southern forces , because neither General had the authority to cover what it did.  The terms of the surrenders to Sherman and Grant would have great facilitated reconciliation, but the assassination of Lincoln moved Johnson into a position he was unfit to hold.

Bragg did wonders, but --- Beauregard never quite seems to have been in the right place at the right time, Hood, The Southern political leadership and system never quite developed in time to get the right general in place except for Lee and his immediate lieutenants.

Thomas, the Rock of Chickamauga, had flashes of greatnes.

Maybe Haupt is the real number one.  His ability to establish the railroad system that supplied the northern forces  was time and again a major deciding factor.  One might argue that without him the North would have been nowhere near as successful and would that have led to McClellan beating Lincoln in '64???

Quoted: Where can I get a copy of that!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

What, the print or the movie?

Prints can be found online. Google "Civil War Art" and STAND BACK!

Quoted: a more accurate print of the charge... www.historicalartprints.com/images/product_large/lions_of_the_round_top_lg.jpg

Ah, yes! Don Troiani!

Truly THE master of accuracy in Civil War paintings. If you think Kunstler is expensive, try snagging a Troiani!


That said, I prefer Kunstler's style better, although I have to admit that Troiani has a few that are simply stunning.

I have lots of THOSE in larger resolutions, too!

I'd post them, but I'd likely get spanked by someone, so if there are any requests for Kunstler, Troiani, Whelan, Giger, etc., let me know via IM and I'll be happy to send them to you.

(I'm going to regret this, aren't I? )


ETA: Ah, SCREW IT!

Here's a link to my album. It contains the highest-res pics I have of Gettysburg artwork by both Kunstler and Troiani.

Enjoy!