SBR upper rules - AR15.COM

Posted: 9/26/2001 12:44:14 PM EDT

Can someone walk me thru the legalities in purchasing a Short Barreled Rifle upper?????

Do I need a preban lower???

DO I have to pay the $200 tax???

Class III is now legal in SC.

Posted: 9/26/2001 2:48:33 PM EDT

[#1]

upper is just that a upper you dont need to have anything to buy one

installing it is another matter

you need to file a FORM 1 appilication to make and register a firearm this is were the 200 doller tax comes in

IN order to have pre ban parts (Flash hider,collasable/folding stock, bayonetlug) the lower needs to be preban or the compleated rifle has to be no longer semi automatic or not take a detachable magazine.

if still want a SBR but without the pre ban parts you would just use a post ban complient upper or mod a preban upper to be post ban (grind off bayonet lug, permintaly affix a break, etc)

Posted: 9/26/2001 2:57:15 PM EDT

[#2]

Prehaps I'm slow....

If I buy a 14.5 inch upper from Bushmaster, I can do so WITHOUT having to pay the NFA tax? I DON'T need to fill out paper work? I just buy it like I would any other upper?

I just can't install it on a lower?

Somehow that does not make sense. I thought any upper under 16 inches was a SBR, and one needed to pay the tax fee.

Av

Posted: 9/26/2001 3:28:44 PM EDT

[#3]

Nope. You need to file the Form 1 first, pay the fees and wait for BATF approval to come in. Then you buy the upper. If your lower is a pre-ban, get a pre-ban upper. If you have a post-ban lower, your SBR lower must be post-ban configuration.

Posted: 9/26/2001 3:37:34 PM EDT

[#4]

garandman: To clarify, an upper is not a firearm, so it's not subject to regulation.

You cannot legally possess a short barrel for your AR-15, though, as ATF classifies that possession as clear evidence of an attempt to build an unregistered short barrel rifle.

If you already own an AR-15, the legal way to make an SBR is to fill out a Form 1, with $200 tax payment, CLEO signature, pics and prints, and wait for it to come back approved with your tax stamp. You can then legally take delivery of a short-barrel upper, and mount it on your lower (after marking it as required).

If your lower is pre-ban, it can be a pre-ban configuration upper, otherwise, it has to be in a post-ban legal configuration (which, for a semi-auto with a detachable magazine and pistol grip, means no bayo lug, threaded barrel or flash hider.)

Posted: 9/26/2001 4:41:56 PM EDT

[#5]

Do these rules apply to leagal 16 or 20 inch barrels as well?

Posted: 9/26/2001 4:51:49 PM EDT

[#6]

Pre-ban lower = pre-ban upper OR post-ban upper.

Post-ban lower = post ban upper,, NO pre-ban upper.

Really simple, some how some IDIOT managed to sneak these rules into the SBR game. I would like to slap that person.

7.5" DPMS KITTY KAT

[img]http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0KwAAAOsMZgJq9cpmlvXLRMdWmT*hx4m8VLJ3Q86qgBZ1t2tMaIT5Y6oZ9pDtty*MfACe1BhzLe8/MVC-009F.jpg [/img]

Posted: 9/26/2001 5:36:53 PM EDT

[#7]

GMan,

Drop me a line and I'll walk you through the entire process. I've done it twice, once on a pre-ban and once on a post-ban lower. The bitch is that 18 USC 922 still applies and so you cannot put those "evil" features on your new NFA weapon if it's a post-ban. Makes no sence but its THE LAW.

Advice above is correct. You can purchase a SB, and as long as it's kept SEPARATE AND APART (like in totally different ends of your house) from your lowers, it's not an SBR.

Email me when you get a chance.

Posted: 9/26/2001 8:04:13 PM EDT

[#8]

Hey guys,
Not that I'll be purchasing an SBR upper anytime soon, I have a question. Once you register your gun as an SBR, Can you legally swap back to the 16+ bbl's? Thanks.

-Jared

Posted: 9/27/2001 9:06:15 AM EDT

[#9]

yes you can swap uppers regardless of the lenght as long as the lower is regged as a SBR

Posted: 9/27/2001 10:27:26 AM EDT

[#10]

OK... I think I've got this....

I can buy a 14.5 inch M4 upper from Bushmaster. They DO NOT need to have any paper work filled out. It's just like buying any other upper.

HOWEVER, I CAN NOT mount the above upper on my lower unless it is a registered SBR.

If it is a post-ban SBR lower, it must be a post-ban upper.

If it is a pre-ban lower, it must be a pre-ban upper.

The only time paperwork and a tax stamp will come into play is when I want to register my lower as a SBR.

Correct?

Av

Posted: 9/27/2001 11:20:20 AM EDT

[#11]

Except that bushmaster won't sell you that 14.5" upper until you send them a photocopy of your tax stamp....

It's not illegal for them to do so, but bushmaster (and quite a few other large manufacturers) choose not to sell those items unless you've got an FFL or a tax stamp.

Posted: 9/27/2001 12:18:39 PM EDT

[#12]

Avalon --

Pay attention to Dave G's comments!

If you already own an AR15 rifle do NOT buy any barrel that's illegal to mount on it. If you own a post-ban rifle don't buy any barrels with bayonet lugs or threaded muzzles unless you own a pre-ban as well.

Don't buy any NFA-length barrels unless you already have a NFA-registered rifle.

What you can do and what's stupid to do are often the same thing [;)].

-- Chuck

Posted: 9/27/2001 12:28:43 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
OK... I think I've got this....

If it is a pre-ban lower, it must be a pre-ban upper . . .

Correct?

Av

View Quote

No, that's the only thing wrong. It can be a pre or post-ban upper on a pre-ban lower.

Dave G. and Chuck gave you sound advice, however, you may own both without the stamp, you just have to keep them separate and apart from each other. Case I always quote is the SBR that was kept in two different drawers in the same dresser; that ain't separate and apart. Keep 'em in different locations, as in houses, if you can or in different rooms locked away and make sure your post-ban lowers have post-ban uppers on them.

In the end, Chuck and Dave G. got it right. There is NO sense in having one if you can't use it. Pay the frickin 200 bucks.

Posted: 9/27/2001 2:19:43 PM EDT

[#14]

I am certanly NOT looking to break the law!

I just want to know what the law is! I will soon be moving to Wisconson, and they are a class 3 state.

I meant to say, if I had a pre-ban [i]SBR lower[/i], it can be a pre-ban upper.

What exactly makes an SBR lower? How do you register one? Or do you have to buy one that is pre-94 or pre-86?

Av

Posted: 9/27/2001 6:34:07 PM EDT

[#15]

Buy an AR, preferably pre-ban. Get an ATF Form 1, fill it out following their instructions to the "T", in duplicate, paste a passport photo to the back pages of both, take it to your CLEO, have him fill out his sections, get two FBI fingerprints done, fill them out, make a check payable to "Dept. of Treasury", send it all off and wait 90 days for approval. Get the approved Form 1 back (one of them) with the attached stamp (looks like a tobacco stamp) and put your firearm together.

That's it.