I called the Cal DOJ yesterday to check on my
registration. I sent it in back in December,
they cashed my check about a month ago, but no word.

So, this lady looks up my card and ass me "Did
you make these yourself?" I said "Yes." She
then asked me if I had a class 7 license from
the ATF. I told her "No". She went on to say
that as far as she knows, I can't manufacture
my own firearms, even if it's for personal use,
especially an evil black rifle!

I politely argued that they were manufactured
by me, for me only, and never to be sold. She
saud she would have to refer me to someone else
who new more about this stuff.....

[pissed]


So come on guys, I need your expertise. Has
anyone on the board successfully registered
a home built? I know this was covered ad
nauseum on the old board, but what federal
laws apply to "rolling your own" so to speak?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

When I sent in my registration form , I put on it "frame only" , No barrle length , no caliber . I got a call from a guy named Ogie and asked whats up. I told him that I was going to build an AR but I didn't know what configeration. He asked if I was going to make a pistol and I answered no. When I got the paperwork back it has caliber 0000. Call and ask to talk to Ogie , he seems to know what up.

red man

Did you buy the lower receiver or maunfacture it yourself?  There should be no problem assemblying an AR15 from a stripped lower.

GW

Troy is correct. These are forgings I completed the machining on, not stripped lowers. Anybody else registered something like this?

I can't wait till next year when the wife and I move to Idaho!


Chris

BTT

Anyone?

Chris, what the DOJ may be talking about is the fact that you finished an 80% lower.  Even though Federal law allows homebuilts for personal use, I don't think that CA law allows for it.  I think it falls under the definition of a "zip gun".

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses.......any zip gun,...

(10) As used in this section, a "zip gun" means any weapon or device which meets all of the following criteria:
(A) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(B) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(C) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(D) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.


CA DOJ website http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/index.html

Wow!  California finds new ways to suck each and every day...

Well, thats very simple to fix: Pay the federal excise tax on the rifle and by Kali law, its no longer a 'zip gun' because it must meet ALL of those 4 criteria to be a 'zip gun'.  Its 11% of the value of the firearm, so if its a stripped lower, its $11, assuming you value the lower at $100.  Now the question is, to whom do you send the check?

Kharn

(B) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(C) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.



It was originally desiegned by a licensed manufacturer,(Stoner). You are allowed to under US law build your own rifle. Those are the laws that cali laws refer Section 4181 and subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code.
to are they not?

Doesn't a lawer moderate this room?

Does section 4181 and subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, refer to building your own?

If that is the case you are in business.

There's no reward for being completely candid with the DoJ or any other government entity.  Best policy is to give them the bare minimum information required by law and not one bit more.

On the old board there was once a flippant suggestion to register a homemade AR as a "Fudd Arms Supa-Dupa Wabbit Killa", or words to that effect, and stamping same on the rifle.  That would evidently in Sparhawk's have been better than telling them the full truth.

BTT.

Anybody else?

What is "BTT" ??????? i see that everywhere in these forums.  cant figure it out.

BTT means Back To the Top of the discussion thread.  

Sparhawk! YOU MORON! Why in gods name would you register? Don't you know what happened under the 89 roberti-roos assault weapons ban? AG Lockyer is using the registration lists to confiscate guns based on technicalities! You might as well sell it now. I never registered mine. And in CA DOJ is listening in on this, I DARE YOU to trace my IP address! [-!-!-]

That you did not register is your problem. I was and still am opposed to registering, yet I did the paperwork and sent it in. I did fingerprinting and registration on my pistols for CCW and nobody came to confiscate the guns. I think your oppostition to complying with this law is noble but I think your position is even more compromised than if you registered and then refused to allow confiscation (if that ever happens) by avoidance of the authorities and asserting search and seizure protections or hiding your rifles.

Thanks for the support a$$hole!

Yeah, this is exactly what I was looking for when I asked for help.

Chris

Glad you got what you wanted. [:D]

But it does look like you got answers that were exactly what you needed -- you can't legally manufacture your own firearms in CA, and so you've "registered" an illegally-made gun.

You can't legally sell one you've made yourself.  Hey, you can't even give it to someone else to keep for you, since that would amount to a "transfer", which is also prohibited under federal law.

Since the crime has already been committed AND admitted by you to the State, you're hosed even if you chop it up into little pieces. [grenade]

You'd better move out of state fast, before they catch up to you.

Remember, just because federal law says you can make something doesn't mean that state/local laws don't prohibit you from making it.

It IS legal to manufacture your own personal rifle in California.  Several ar15.com contributors have posted that they successfully registered homemade AR15 lowers.  The dingbat that told Sparhawk he couldn't do it was full of sh1t.

Will someone who has successfully registered a home built either post or e-mail me?

Chris

Apologies;  my mistake.  I'm too trusting sometimes. [whacko] [spank]

But it does look like you got answers that were exactly what you needed -- you can't legally manufacture your own firearms in CA, and so you've "registered" an illegally-made gun.


Gosh Sparhawk, didn't know you had the special reg card that stated WHERE you built it.
Got a letter from DOJ today.  Here is a partial quote.
"  Based on the make and model information you provided on th Assault Weapon REgistration Application, the specified firearm does not automatically qualify for assault weapon registration.  YOu will be contected by a DOJ firearms expert to evaluate your particular firearm, including a possible physical inspection...."

Kinda sounds like the same thing several old board members had to go through with some specialty rifles.
Blood pressure down yet?

To the arm-chair lawyers on this board.  Get an education.  You look real dumb talking out of your collective asses.

david_r:

What information did you give them?  I registered some foreign-made target rifles that they had never heard of, and they called me on the phone for more information back in December.  It scared the bejeezus out of me.  The guy who called didn't ask anything about what why I wanted to register them, and I didn't volunteer any information.  He just wanted me to verbally confirm what I had written on the application.

With no real fuss they accepted the information I provided.  My registration letter doesn't even list the manufacturers' names that I provided.  It just says "MADE IN " and the serial number.  And that agrees with the markings on the rifles.

I wish we could search the "old" board.  I'm sure that people posted that they had successfully registered homemade ARs, declared as such, both in 1989 and in 2000.

The DoJ does not behave in a consistent, predictable manner.  No lawyer, real or otherwise, could tell you in advance how the DoJ is going to handle any particular application.  It's very frustrating because the law IS NOT CLEAR.  Most of us want to obey the law even if we disagree with it.

I challenge you to find the chapter and verse of the California Penal Code that says unambiguously that you can't build a rifle or three for your own personal use.  I'll bet you can't.  I've looked for it, and to make a case that you can't make your own rifle you have to stretch the definition of "manufacture" past the breaking point.  There's also nothing in California law that says a firearm has to have a serial number.

Should have been clearer.  That last comment was not directed at you.  It was directed at these jerk telling Sparhawk that he cannot build a gun in Ca.  As if he admitted to anyone that he did that.  I doubt they have even seen the form.  If they had, they would know that it doesn't ask where it was manufactured.  My point being that regardless of Ca law (I think you are correct) they don't know what they are talking about.
I was refering to you about the specialty rifles.  Just couldn't remember your name from the old board.  I also feel like I did read on the old board that some DIY receivers were registered.

The letter lists the Ser # (that I had to stamp so I could put it on the form)  Make (my name) and model (A-15).

I think this letter may be because we sent in our registrations later than you.  I guess the "firearms expert" (Ogie?) didn't have the time to follow the same procedure with our guns.
To further quote the letter ... "Applications requiring problem resolution follow-up were suspended during the processing of the aforementioned completed applications."

That's weird the registration lists the country of origin.  That wasn't even a field on the Application.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong and I'll have to go out of state, retrieve my receiver and turn it in to the Man like a good californicator. [rolleyes]

david

I just checked my photocopy of my application.  You're right.  The country of origin is the one piece of new information I gave the DoJ over the phone.