I was just wondering how short can an Ar-15 be. I know the barrel has to be at least 16 inches, but what what about a total over all length.


Six

Barrel has to be 16", and overall length has to be 26".

18 USC 921(A)(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

That's the deal....That's also what led to the invention of the bullpup stock....

FYI....going further you can have an AR-15 shorter than 26" but it must be classified as a "Pistol"

John[heavy]
Phoenix,AZ[heavy]

Actually, its 16" Barrel, 26" OAL with any collapsable or telescoping stocks EXTENDED, so you could theroetically could have made a gun only 16" long, as long as the stock extended 10", it would have to be a '94 preban of course.

Kharn

I don't think the National Firearms Act (NFA) or US law had anything to do with the invention of the bullpup.  Bullpups were designed to get the longest possible barrel length (for greater accuracy, velocity) in the smallest possibly package (for quicker, easier handling in situations where the extra length can create a serious liability - CQB/CQC).  Don't know about you, but I'd rather have an AUG to clear a house with rather than a full size M16A2.  Besides, most bullpups were originally designed to be full auto which puts you back in the realm of the NFA.

Bullpuped rifles are not so hot for indoor social activities.  What if you have a right side ejection port and you have to clear around a right corner.  You can shift an AR Carbine to shoot from your left shoulder without significant problems and clear around the corner without exposing too much of your body.  Try that with an AUG set up to eject to the right.  

Dave -

The problem you describe -the location of the ejection port- is a problem, but it doesn't necessarily have to be inherent to the bullpup design;  look at the FN P90 for example.  Its just a problem that needed to be addressed in subsequent redisigns of the firearm.  Heck, even a small brass catcher will solve the problem of the right ejection port pretty neatly.  The problem the bullpup was designed to solve was that of getting a full size 18-20" barrel in a package where the full length of the barrel wasn't hanging out in front of the shooter.  The point I was trying to make was that in comparison to something like an M16A2 or HK33 where all the barrel is hanging out in front, the AUG, or any bullpup design with the same barrel length in a shorter OAL package, is going to be easier to manuver and handle in tight quarters.  Additionally, with something like the M16 or HK, the barrel is going to break the corner, whether its a left or right corner, long before you do and tip off any hostiles as to your position.  Certainly you can back off your(safe) side of the corner a bit (cutting the corner much wider than you'd have to do with a bullpup), but you'd quite possibly be exposing yourself to a shooter with a little bit of an angle on you as you backed off the corner and cut it wide.

Sixgun, being from michigan you should hear me out. 30" oal in MI. you can have it  26" if you register it as a handgun.I have a pre-ban bushy w/11.5/5.5f/h and it's oal is over 30"

Sixgun - Listen to 7point62.  I gave you the federal law, but the states can be more restrictive - this looks like one of those cases.  And now that 7point62 mentions it, I think Ido remember something from an old Bushie catalog where they made an 18" Uzi barrel specifically to meet the state regs for residents of one state...and I think it very well may have been MI.

Sooo... even if one has a form 4 registered SBR, it cannot be shorter than 26" OAL?

Never mind. I read Shaggy's 1st post.

Does anybody know what the over all legnth of a shot gun has to be. I know it has to have a 18 in barrel. I am thinking for a shotgun is 26 inches. I have seen people with shotgun and pistol grips measureing them at the gun shop and I think 26 inches is the key length. I am just looking for info for future referance.

Six

Sixgun -

Your thinking is correct.  Its 26"...at least federally. Of course, as with rifles, your state maybe more restrictive.

18 USC 921(a)(6) The term ''short-barreled shotgun'' means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Just thought I'd throw this in....

As long as it has a stock that allows shouldering of the weapon it is a rifle and must follow the OAL rule of 26" and 16" barrel length.

If it does not have a stock (an AR for instance that just has a pistol buffer attached - no stock) is classified as a pistol and can have any length barrel.

[sniper]
The Sniper

yes some states like CA mesure OAL with the stock folded so with that uzi carbine u would need a 18inch barrel

hell if u could build one u could make ar wit ha 1 inch barrel and just the lencg of the reciever and the stock but that would require NFA registartion or make it a pistol