We need to pull the plug on those ungrateful,
backstabbing, instigators.

Subsidizing them is a waste of money, and will eventually cost American lives.

Waterdog

It is not written that way, my son...

The Eagle shall be the only friend of Isreal in the end.

[b]BusMaster007[/b], that's what I believe as well.

But you knew that!

Eric The(Believeing)Hun[>]:)]

Since when is it instigation to defend ones citizens?


The only Israeli attacks have come AFTER the PLO have attacked civilians!

Ever since it was defined as "agression" to defend ones citizens on occupied territory.

Waterdog- Ya really think that if we pulled the plug on Israel and allowed them to be crushed out of existence that we wouldn't have any more problems from those Arab types?

Better educate yourself. Read a Bible. Then the koran.

Pull the financial plug on 'BOTH' Israel and the Palestinians.

While we're at it, turn out the lights on "Bulldozer" Sharon and Ara-the-Fat.

Since Massada is not occupied I see little chance of it falling - again.

This will only end when one side wipes out the other entirely.  I say we sell Israel anything they want (almost anything)and let them do our dirty work for us in this part of the world.  Do you really think that those psycho SOB's will stop if they defeat Israel.  We will be next on their shit list if Israel falls.

Besides, there hasn't been a war with good film footage in a while.  All the reporters are already in place.  The History Channel needs something new to keep us all entertained with.

We don't SELL military hardware to Israel.  Our tax dollars pay for their military.

I will clairify my point. I know we do not sell much of anything to Israel.  I am willing to overlook that if they continue to put my tax money to good use in blowing up terrorist etc.

My point is that we should let them have anything they want (within reason), make them pay for it, but let them force the endgame within their own borders.

You always seem to play with your toys a little more carefully when you must pay for them yourself.

Post from 5subslr5 -

You would rather have 'our boys' driving those bulldozers, or theirs?

And what country do we support militarily that our tax dollars don't actually pay for?

I'm certain we're going to leave a lot of equipment behind for the Afghans, as well.

And we'll be paying for those folks for a long time, as well.

And the alternative would be....

Eric The(Well?)Hun[>]:)]

Seems to me that the territories in question would not have been occupied if the Arab states had quit invading from those very same lands.  There comes a time when enough is enough and you have to close the door.
That is what Israel did....this is particularly true for the Golan.

Eric,
fortunately or unfortunately our positions are opposite and hardened on this topic.

Please note that I wish to fund 'NEITHER' group - not Israel and not the Palestinians.

U.S. policy for years has been "Israel Only" and support for virtually every corrupt regime in the middle east - especially the Saudis.  And then we wonder why Arabs and Muslims hate us.

I believe US policy is beginning to slowly move to one of more neutrality.

My answer to  who "runs the dozers" may surprise you.  Had I the power (thankfully for the world I don't) I would put about 200  Army "SF" between the factions and explain to both sides they should pray that not one of our people come to any harm as I would blow the shit out of the side causing the harm.  Eric, either side.

I've posted this before and will do so again.  Neither Israel nor the Palestinians want peace. I believe financially neither believes it can afford peace.

If we continue to fund Israel at present levels Israel can continue to afford war but not peace.

Both Arafat and Sharon should be terminated and if necessary with extreme prejudice.  Better yet, arrest the pair and put them in the same cell for about 20 years.

Anyone want to guess who'd end up being the passer and who'd be the receiver in that matchup? [sex]  [:D]

I keep being drawn to the thought that Ariel Sharon has TWO girl's names.   Apparently he has quite the chip on his shoulder as a result of it, from what I see going on.

A lot of Americans have dual citizenship with Israel, and a lot of Israelis came from America. I don't know very many people who have dual US/Palestine citizenship!

Last I heard, if you could prove you were Jewish (I have NO clue of what constitutes 'proof' in this case) then there's money and land waiting for you if you want to settle in Israel.  Have they added an APC to the deal yet?   [;D]

How many Palestinians are there, anyway?  Anybody have ANY clue at all?

How many Israelis?

I can't honestly say that I have any evidence that there's a live Palestinian who's worth a shit.  If the Israelis exterminate them all, I honestly wouldn't give a rat's ass.  Nothing good has come of a Palestinian that I'v ever heard of.


CJ

Isn't that statement contradictory?  If we are supporting the Arab regimes as well as Israel, then why should we be wondering about why they hate us?  

5Subslr5, are you that blind to see that they would hate us regardless of our support for Israel?  The hatred for the USA is institutionalized and our interests are best served by aligning ourselves towards Israel.  

When was the last time we were attacked by Israel (no arguable ship attacks included) and when was the last time that they helped us?  Their intelligence gathering is among the best in the world and we need them a hell of a lot more than any middle east nation.

Personally, I hope Israel goes to complete war with the rag heads and wipe their disease off the planet.  I then hope other surrounding nations intervene and it gets big enough that the US and Israel can take the gloves off and really own the middle east.  

Yeah, I know people would die if there were war, but if we had a free hand in that region, we wouldn't be wondering about nukes on our doorstep and planes flying into our buildings.  

[size=6]Please do not feed the trolls[/size=6]

[orange]I thought that this one was pretty over the top but a dozen of you hit on the bait. What next people? When are you going to learn?[/orange]

How long do you think the Israeli’s are going to put up with this? Turn them loose and let them resolve the problem once and for all.

Peace can only come from a position of strength. Haven't we learned that lesson yet?

Very good point.  

I'm not a big Israel fan, but they are a neccessary TOOL in destroying the terrorist front as well as the perfect strategic ally.  

At first, when the violence broke out a couple months ago, I was thinking that Israel was an opportunist nation, riding the heals of the American war, but considering everything that has happened in that region and the level of hatred for us there, I fully support their efforts.

I cannot fathom how ANYONE would not support the Israeli cause right now, it would almost be unpatriotic and unAmerican.  Especially after Saudi Arabia endorsed Palistinian suicide bombers.  

The 9/11 terrorists weren't Afghans, they were the embodiment of the middle east Muslim nations.

Rather than replying point-by-point let me try and make ONE point.

I really do not care what the Israeli's and Palestinians do to each other so long as the United States funds NEITHER side and aids NEITHER side.
Without continuing threats Israel becomes the small and insignificant country that it really is.  Neither Israel nor the "Territories" occupied by the Palestinians are vital to any United States interest.

The United States is exactly what I care about.

There is nothing arguable about the Israeli murder of the sailors on the USS Liberty.  Nothing.

(As to contradictory, we don't fund the Arabians.)

When the United States stops supporting Gods Chosen (Isreal). The United States will fall from it's favor and status.

Who is Israel, a people or a worthless piece of desert?

Depending on your personal belief, Israel is all Christians (a Christian is someone who believes with their heart, mind and soul Jesus is the messiah), or the seed of Abraham, take your pick.

And then explain. Because maybe I am wrong, and don't understand.

And answer me this, if  the state of Israel is Gods people, then why has the United States of America been so blessed?

And I am willing to bet my life, that the majority of the 12 tribes, live in the US.

The United States is the greatest nation that has ever existed.

Anyone disagree?

Waterdog

I believe there should be a new organization created called Americans For Israel First (AFIF). The purpose of the organization would be to expose as anti-semetic any person or group that does not support, AT ANY COST to the United States, the continuing existence of Israel. Another goal would be to lobby for congress to allow the Mossad to operate freely within this country with diplomatic immunity to neutralize any and all opposition.

Imbroglio, you first need to DEFINE semetic.

Then DEFINE anti-semetic

Go ahead, let the mOOsaad come to the US,and even try F**CKING with American citizens, who wish to express an opinion about their backstabbing, instigating, socialist bureacracy.

They will get their P*SSY A**ES booted back to the desert, quicker than you can say kosher

Waterdog

[url]http://www.rense.com/general20/ch.htm[/url]
Preparing suicide bombers..children used by their parents schoolteachers and religious leaders to kill
The Holy Men of Islam are the most violent
The modern nation of Israel was a swamp before the hands of Jews built it into a thriving modern infrastructure...the lazy arabs now want to steal it from those who built it...imo
The Jews have allowed arabs/muslims to live and work among them..to even build mosques in their land (big no no in the bible and an offense to the one true God..the God of Moses Isaac and Jacob) They made a big mistake in arming them..obviously
The Arabs are the ingrates not the other way arround
The Jews dont fly planes into our buildings...but Taliban Haamas Islamic Jihad etc etc etc do and will contiunue to do so
The same terrorists that are killing Jewish kids have killed American Kids already and will kill more
The ulitimate aim of Islam is to kill or convert every human on the planet..they will use the riches of oil bearing middle eastern states and the wests appetite for oil to do so..
The have built their mosques on our soil...we tolerate them..they run terror camps out of these mosques US relegious leader are helping and abedding them by declaring Islam a peaceful religion..it is...if you are a fellow muslim
H Rap brown Muslim minister was convicted of killing a police officer yesterday ..He openly prayed to Allah during his trial....Isam is peace...
We are in a war with these bastards and you better get your head out of your ass most rickey tick...they aim to kill or convert..and we need to root every islamic terrorist out of every rat nest they are in...asap..including inside CONUS...
get ready because the worst is yet to come..it isnt going to get better till it gets worse...read the FBI reports..
Or believe the commie propaganda machine from the ilk of Alec Baldwin and his type..who declare the Bushes are using this as a cover for a coup a right wing takeover...what garbage Baldwin is a globalist who would like nothing better than the takeover of the US by globalists..
Israel is our only allie in the middle east ..period...and you better get that straight as well ..we need to back them 100% and turn them loose...give them full permission to do what ever it takes to wipe out every terrorist they find anyway they choose while we tell the rest of the world to piss up a rope and do the same..imo of course

U.S. policy for years has been "Israel Only" and support for virtually every corrupt regime in the middle east - especially the Saudis.  And then we wonder why Arabs and Muslims hate us.

The reason muslim hate us is because its their nature to do so..the nature of their religion ..Israelis do not hate muslims...you dont know what you are talking about..go to Israel and you will see...the hatred from the children and from the adults is from the muslim side to Israel ..the Israelis prefer peace why do you think they haven given in and given in and given in until there is little to give in to..
The Golan Heights hold one third of the drinking and irrigation water and are the main access route for Syrian tanks which are already poised on the border waiting...Muslims are obliged by the Koran to make war on all infidels until they confess Isalm as the way and renounce their own beliefs...a Christian by the way is allowed to convert to Islam a Jew must be killed...sound like peace to you or tolerance yet both Judaism and Christianity welcome the muslim to convert..but never at the point of a gun

Whatever the reason, whatever the cost, the sides have already been chosen.  If you haven't been keeping up with the news, we were attacked 9/11 by Islamic terrorists.  This attack was just one incident in a war between civilizations.  Please don't be fooled by the official government propaganda.  We are not at war with "hate" or "terrorism" We are at war with people who hate our way of life, and use terrorism to kill or convert us.

Israel may not be perfect, but like Russia in W.W.II, she is our Ally.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

As in any war, the victors will write history, and decide who was right and who was wrong.

Here's a thought, of course I may be wrong. When Isreal gave the land to the Palestinians, didn't Palestine have to promise peace?  So, the land for peace deal that they keep talking about now was already done in order for Palestine to get the land in the first place.  From what I have seen, Palestine has not lived up to its end of the agreement and simply wants more.  Now, I feel for the people of Palestine just as I do for the people in all countries that have known nothing but war.  I do however have a very hard time with killing civilians, leadership that says they do not condone the violence and yet somehow finance and support it, and the thought that the way to God is through blowing myself up in a nightclub packed with teenagers having a good time!  So, I recommend the following:

1.  F**k Arafat, Mossad needs to take him out NOW!

2.  No peace, no land! Take it all back and leave Palestine with nothing because they have not lived up to their end.

3.  Occupation, smoccupation.  A tank on every street corner a sniper on every building, its not an occupation if its your land!

4.  Take care of the Palestinian people because we are all Gods people.  Not everyone in Palestine is a terrorist.  I do not mean socialism, I mean give them the option of joining society and working for a common good.  If they don't like the idea, they can pack up and walk to the next country.  Perhaps Saddamm would like to add some hate mongers to his countries landscape.  Then he could test out some of his non-existant chemical weapons on them because he is a psycho (sorry I got off track).

5.  I don't really have a number 5 but I am sick and tired of all the bu*lsh*t over there.

Like I said in the first place, I probably have no idea what I am talking about but this tit for tat has got to stop.  Isreal needs to either sh*t or get of the pot.  In the words of Dennis Miller, "Of course this is my opinion, I may be wrong."

Well as long as there is AIPAC (American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee), you will see continued funding for the state of Israel's military. Period.

[url]http://www.aipac.org/[/url]


Bulldog OUT

I am no student of history, but I do not believe there has ever been peace when both sides still have the ability to continue to wage war.  One side needs to be defeated and then there will be peace.

If I were a betting man, my money would be on Israel.  I vote - "Turn 'em loose" {and turn the lands occupied by the Palestinians into a Super Wal-Mart}.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Easy for you to say, subsailor! When you consider, however, that three world religions, including the top two, consider the land of Israel to be 'holy' for one reason, or the other this land is not 'small and insignificant' in any degree!

I know that might be hard for atheists, agnostics, pagans, and other nonbelievers to understand, but you'll just have to take our word on it!

Well, during the Cold War, the US considered the State of Israel to be vital to the US in its role as leader of the Free World.

When the US was given the chance to inspect a  complete MIG-23, the first one they'd ever seen, it was an opportunity given them by the Israelis!

So now, subsialor, you seem to think we don't need them. That Israel's assistance in the future will be a liability, and not a positive.

That is certainly strange, because it comes at a time when Russia's desire to reassert itself in the Middle East is clearly evident in its decision to forge ahead with massive arms shipments to Syria, despite Syria's inability to pay for them.

Why the Russian generosity? Because arms equal influence.

Which is exactly what the United States will [u]lack[/u] in the Middle East of the future, if it continues on its path of encouraging and pressuring Israel to commit national suicide, thus eliminating its only ally and source of pro-Western regional influence.

The Russians understand this, the Syrians understand this, even the Israelis understand this, but you don't.

Me, too! I care a great deal about the welfare of Israel, not only from a [u]geopolitical[/u] standpoint but for religious reasons as well.
I do not expect you to sign on for the religious reasons, but I would think that an old salt such as yourself might think twice before leaving the area wide open for Russkies!

Please, the last time we has this 'nothing arguable' thread, it ran ten pages! So much for it not being arguable!

Eric The(Exasperated!)Hun[>]:)]

No nation ever bargained their way to victory.

You may attribute that quote to me.


The Israelis shouldn't even be TOLERATING these palestinian muslim terrorist piss ants and should be trampling them on sight.jk

"Islam is peace".   Yeah, right.  From what I can see, it's the religion that is MOST likely to cause its members to start a war at the drop of a hat or even the shaving of a beard.

Islam is peace if Islam takes over the whole damned planet, and not before.  (I am referring exclusively to the radical factions, not the moderate ones. )  I ain't playing that game.    I absolutely refuse to point my ass in a particular direction and pray six times a day!

Sooner or later, it'll be war between the radical factions of Islam and all the rest of us, with all the rest of us including the moderate Islamic factions.  

CJ

Folks like this remind me that Satan will always have work on this planet.

Well bubba, God never told me to worship ANY man, let alone Jewish ones. In fact, I seem to remember that Satan was the "chosen" angel as well at one point. Will we "fall" from favor if we refuse to support Satan as well?

Israel is of their father Satan, and they do his work on this planet. If you assume that Satan wears a T-shirt that says "EVIL" on the front, let me remind you that life rarely works that way.

Evil likes to dress up in the robe of "victim" and in that sense, Israel fits the bill exactly.

Now...off your knees and bow before God, not Judah! Jews are "chosen" to committ evil in the name of God as they blashpeme his name and his message.

When you have a chance Waterdog....you can bone up on the history of Jewish/Gentile conflict here....
http://jewishtribalreview.org/open.htm

Westerners need to remain a distinct and separate people and stop allowing the tiny minority to tell us what the problem with us is.

Our historians left a written record of OUR side of the eternal eminty between them and us, yet we are only allowed to consider the Jewish side of the equation.

And to those corrupt men who claim Islam is hateful....let me remind you that it is Islam that follows the words of Christ as holy, while it is Judaism and Jews who despise and oppose him at every turn.

It ain't Arabs complaining about separation of church and state, it's Jews like Madelyn Murray O'Hare and Alan Dershowitz. It ain't Arabs that are working to disarm us in our own damned land, it's Jews like Feinstein, Boxer, and Schumer. Seems that they don't trust a goy populace with the ability to offer armed resitance to the traditional aims of "world brotherhood."

E.T. Hun, when you interject religion into the equation this problem becomes unsolvable between those who are true believers (You) and agnostics (me).  'IF' I've properly learned from your posts, you believe it the duty of Christians to support the position of Israel ??  I further believe you base this belief on Biblical information ??

I'm not so insensitive as to not recognize there is religious significance for both Christian and Muslim in Israel.

Within the United States there's separation between church and state.  You're speaking from the "church" position and point of view and I'm speaking for what I believe should be the "state's" position.  Just different points of view - different places from which we base our arguments.

For me it's best to leave the USS Liberty subject unanswered.  As so many were Navy CT's and I probably worked with some of those guys this subject I should not touch.  (Why don't I know that answer now would be a fair question to be thinking.  Because CT's often worked under assumed names depending on their mission.)

All you have to do to see who's "right" and who's "wrong" in the middle east, IMHO, is get out a friggin' map and look at it. Israel is a minute little chunk of land, not hardly prime real estate. The Arab countries on the other hand comprise a massive amount of land, the wealth of the oil fields, etc.

If the Saudis and the Iranians truly cared about the "Palestinians" they would be building them cities in the territory formerly known as Iraq, not shipping them guns and rockets. In reality however, they do not give a flying hoot about their "Muslim brothers" - they just want to kill Jews and take their land.

As for the "Palestinians" - they are constantly whining for something they ALREADY HAVE - a Palestinian state. That state is called the Kingdom of Jordan, where [b]sixty-five percent[/b] of the population are so-called "Palestinians." Once again, they really are not fighting Israel because they want to end the occupation of "their" land, they're simply doing it because [b]they hate Jews[/b]. They hate anybody who isn't like them for that matter - if it were a bunch of Canadians living there, they'd be pulling the same crap. I know firsthand how incredibly deep the emnity between Jew and Arab runs thanks to having family members from Syria. [b]The problem for Israel in the end is the problem for the United States as well: Islam[/b]. Islam is incompatible with democracy and freedom because it essentially insists on the state being a theocracy.

Post from 5subslr5 -

No, it doesn't, see below.

First, let me say that I believe that it is the duty of all Americans to support Israel for many reasons, including that they are the only democracy in the region (and that we should be supporting democracies everywhere), that they have been our true friend and ally since their beginning as a sovereign nation, that they assisted us (as we assisted them) in the Cold War, in Vietnam (did your boat ever visit Haifa?) in the Gulf War (remember those 17 items I posted showing Israeli assistance in the war effort), we share the same values as they do, and 20% of them hold American citizenship.

There are many other reasons that the US should support them as a nation, as well.

And for those of us who are Christian, I believe that Jesus would desire us to support His brethren as well.

Biblical beliefs, yes.

But so what? Forget the religious aspect of my support and understand that from a rationale standpoint, to support Israel is vital to US interests.

Does it bother you that the weak, impoverished former Soviet Union has just given $2 Billion military aid to Syria, and restructured $12 Billion in debt that it already owed Russia?

If it wasn't important for Russia to be buying influence in the Middle East at a time when it is struggling financially, why shouldn't it be important for the US to continue backing its best friend and ally in the region as a counterpoint to Syria?

So you just want to strike the flag, sail on back home, and leave the Middle East to the former Soviet Union? Does that mean they get all the oil, plus what they have at home?

'It's just none of our business what they do over there!'

That sounds like a lot of folks after WWI, and you can see what that attitude got for us?

Eric The([b]WWII![/b])Hun[>]:)]

"First, let me say that I believe that it is the duty of all Americans to support Israel for many reasons, including that they are the only democracy in the region (and that we should be supporting democracies everywhere), "


What a CROCK of sheisse!!!!Israel is a democracy? Yeah...if you're Jewish....

Palestinians born into Israel have NO vote. It's Jim Crow Jewish style. If Israel truly WERE a democracy, there'd be 1 vote for each man and Jews would have to acknowledge Palestinians are human.

Using Erics "vision" of democracy, South Africa of the 1970's was the MODEL of democracy.

Israel is as democratic as Nazi Germany was....

It's time to nuke those evil pricks.

Post from Jesred -

Nope. You are wrong on this as you are on, oh, say about 99% of everything you write about!

You are so consistently wrong that I'm not even certain that 'Jesred' is the correct way to spell your Board name![:D]

[u]All[/u] Israeli citizens 18 years and older are entitled to vote. The Israeli Arabs who make up about 15% of the total population of Israel likewise vote in elections!

So see how you are so incredibly uninformed about this sort of stuff. (Go ask your Minister Michael Hoffmann why the nasty Jews let those Israeli Arabs vote.)

Well there you have it folks! It's shameful what our public schools are producing in the way of 'educated' young adults nowadays.

Jesred, you may wish to look this fact up before you open your mouth next time!

Nope, South Africa was more like your vision of the perfect democracy - Nazi Germany!

See what I mean, folks!

'Evil pricks'! Finally, a subject you may have some expertise in - evil pricks.[:D]

Eric The(Amused)Hun[>]:)]

Hey sunshine....

Tell it to the 5 million Palestinians deported from their villages and ancestral estates. They'd LOVE to be able to vote, but they were ran out at the end of one of those Israeli mausers you pseudo Jews so love to collect.

If it were one vote for one man, Palestinians, who greatly outnumber the invading Jews from Europe would be allowed access to the billions stolen from America annually. As it is, only NY Jews can step off of the plane and be granted an apartment built on Palestinian land.

You know how you can tell if Eric is lying? His lips are moving.......

the Hun wrote: "And for those of us who are Christian, I believe that Jesus would desire us to support His brethren as well."


buahahahaha LMFAO man...now that's funny.
maybe the ones who sold him for a bag of ching and had him nailed to the cross can do a charity thing.

That's "blaspheme", not "blashpeme" unless you're drunk, ocifer.

[img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/stupid.gif[/img]

If I put on my tinfoil hat, will it keep you from the fire-and-brimstone type preaching, or just keep me from noticing it?

People who believe as that are EVERY BIT as bad as the radical Muslim extremists who believe that anyone who's not a radical Muslim extremist like they are is an infidel who must be converted or die.[img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/brdflick.gif[/img]

Intolerance is the enemy that will consume us all if we allow ourselves to be trapped by it.

CJ

I support Israel in their actions.

However, I do not support sending our tax money over there.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it authorize giving money to foreign governments.

Will Israel "die" without our support. Hardly. They are a strong people who will survive.

If anybody wants to support Israel, send their own money and their own equipment over there, or go over their themselves and fight. However, don't take my money to support your interest.

My sig line says it all. We need to heed the word of the Founders.

maelcum wrote:


This really is to the point.  Some view support for Israel in a religous way, which is fine, but the REAL issue is the vermin that are attacking them!  We are strong in part because we keep our religion and our government mostly separate.  Moslems are unable to do so and amount to exactly nothing.

There will be peace in the Mideast when Israel finally does the right thing and drives all palestinians out of the "territories", hoperfully killing most of them.  Look at it this way; every one of the vermin the Jews kill saves US the trouble!

THIS IS WAR and OUR survival as a nation and a people is at stake!  It is THEM or US and I prefer we be the winners.  There is absolutely nothing we can do to make them hate us more, just as there is nothing that will make them like us.  What we CAN do is teach them FEAR!  To oppose Israel in this WAR is to be a traitor to the US.

JESRED, What version of the Holy Bible are you quoting. This will be my last post on this thread. I am a Christian I believe in the Holy Bible as being true in it's entirety. Im not as much of a scholar as Hun or some of the others, but I believe as it is written, when we  fail to defend Isreal this Nation will loose is favor, status, and power. The favor, status and power we have because we are a Nation founded on Christian belief and that we as a Nation defend (not allways agree with) His Chosen People. I am not a Jew, but I am also "chosen" as accepting Jesus as my Savior, and the way the truth and the lite, and that no man my come to the Father but through the Son. I have stated my opinion, I will push my opinions on no one. I am done. I pray for you all tonight in that you are all my brothers.

"I am not a Jew, but I am also "chosen" "

NEWSFLASH! if you ain't a jew, you're not chosen, but a mere goy. You got a lot to learn.

Ask the Hun what it's like to be one of the "chosen" ones.