Bush is going to be forced to sign this becuase of Enron. I just hope he grows some Balls before it reaches his desk or he might become a one-term president like his father who also betrayed America.

If he signs this, we are doomed.

I don't like this bill not one bit, but let's not get on the "we are doomed" wagon.

Our system of checks and balances should save this one...

No chance of passing the review of the Supreme Court when it's challenged!  Parts of it are clearly a restriction of political speech.  Unlike the 2nd, the court stands behind the first fairly well.

I'm all for cleaning up politics, but this is foolish...  

As I watched the events of 9-11 unfold on the tube. The first thought was "How could an airplane just fly into a building????" After the second plance flew into the second tower, NO doubt this was intentional!!! The next thought was "I'M WATCHING MY RIGHTS DISAPPEAR BEFORE MY EYES!!!!!" Well, It has taken just a few weeks, and this is just the latest of an ongoing stream of things to come.

i agree, we should be getting on the "this is war" wagon...

I passed out flyers during the last election and I will continue to do so, law or no law. If they don't like it, they'll have to throw me in Prison. And, if they do so, I will appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. Since the 11th Circuit (Is that correct ?) in Atlanta is Anti-Freedom.

My guess is that SCOTUS would overturn it. But, we don't want it passing in the first place.

What is unbelievable about this issue is that joe sixpack, for the most part, is oblivious to the assault on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that this  bill represents.
People, for the most part, do not realize that the destruction of what America stands for started with the violation of the 2nd amendment and is now moving on to the 1st amendment. While there is a system of checks and balances in place, and judicail review will hopefully correct this newest violation, how did it ever get this far? How can sworn defenders of liberty, the constitution, and the Bill of Rights (Congress) standby with a straight face while this goes to the President's desk. If W does not VETO this bill and verbally assault the idiots on the hill who put this on his desk, then the we are going to be in some deep sh*t.

Can someone post a link where one can read this bill?   I usually get a headache trying to read congressional bills, maybe because I don't read/speak doublespeak.

Why do you bother to fight?  The people that you save ie "Joe Sixpack" won't appreciate it, won't deserve it and certainly wouldn't understand why you go through all the trouble to stop some "stupid bill that doesn't affect my life ie job ie hobby ie tv."

Leave.  Just leave when the time comes right.  You'll know it, and you just walk away.  Let these people reap the socialist seeds that they sow.  I suppose you think it takes a hatred for mankind to just sit back and watch these people all kill each other, but you are wrong. Let me rationalize.

I would argue if Joe Sixpack was every really alive.  To think ie conceptualize is volitional.  To not think, is to not be living in the sense of being human.  An animals eats sleeps and breathes because it can only perceptualize it's basic needs.  A human differs with his ability to not only use his ability to use perceptual thinking but to take it further and conceptualize ie form concepts.  He does this using logic, reasoning and his value system.  

Joe Sixpack and his wife Soccer Mom have failed to think.  Failing to think is failing to live, therefore his death is not a loss and no guilt can/should be felt for his passing.  Neither should you feel like a loser for leaving, in fact, leaving will make you an unsung hero.

Just shutup, leave, let them kill themselves and then come back.  It's simple and it saves your life, which is much more valuable to you than your neighbors.  

I guess I should put the nomex suit on, but please, give it some thought.  It makes alot more sense than digging yourself a fox hole and "sniping blue helmets". That will get you killed.  The object of life is to perserve it.  This is the least violent and the best thing you can do for freedom and liberty.  Leave.

i'm not gonna flame you, Jojo, you're a good guy. but let me ask you some questions. why should i leave MY country to those evil-commies? what kind of country would i have to return to? and last, what would Thomas Jefferson had said if you told him that life is more dear than freedom?

besides what fatty said, where would you go?  I can't think of another country I would like to live in.

Check this out....[:(!]
[url]http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm[/url]

Thank you fatty, these are all valid questions.  What kind of person would you be if you left the country to the evil-commies?  I really don't know.  I couldn't say you were a coward, I couldn't say you were a man hater, I couldn't condemn you.

What good is freedom if your not alive to live in it?  I would most certainly, just for people especially like you and others on this site, offer myself as a trade so that you may have freedom.  But I refuse to trade myself for a lesser value, for people especially like Joe SixPack and Mrs. Soccer Mom.  That is why I won't fight, I'd leave.  Trading down is something that has only brought me ruin and misery in my life, from now on I trade up.  All I'd expect for you is to trade up also, go for the highest value possible. If it lands on freedom and life, do what you think will be best to  maintain that value.  If you don't know what you value than I beg you to choose today, right now and stand up for youself.

Beginning to disappear?  No, they've been disappearing for years.  They have disappeared.  It's time to face reality.  Unless something big happens, we're doomed.

I tend to agree with Jojo though--I look around and wonder who the hell I would even want to fight for except myself.  We can't all run to South America or the Carribean though.  Besides, I saw Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid.  They didn't fare too well heading down to Belize!

i don't think we need to wait for some elected court to interperate this:

Amendment I

Congress shall make [size=3][red]no law[/size=3][/red] respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;[red] or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a
redress of grievances. [/red]

what part of "no law" don't they understand?

this bill will effectively rob us of: freedom of speech, freedom to petition the government and the freedom of the press! anybody's name on this bill has just admitted to being an enemy of the US, and deserves whatever they get...

...just imagine, we couldn't even have this discussion if this bill was passed!

ok, that's fair enough, but let me offer another viewpoint. most joey-sixpacks will perish if TSHTF, which it will if this bill passes. but aside from that, i would stay and fight for my country, not for joe or jane, but because so many have already died to protect its freedoms. will you allow their deaths to be in vein? i'm talking about something bigger than any of us, the American [blue]idea[/blue]. it is worth fighting for, whether i feel my neighbors are worthy of it or not, they are still Americans, and hopefully, so will my children be.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.....

Apparently, the same part they misunderstand in "shall not be infringed."

....This is the Atlas Shrugged Style of resisting evil.  Just remove from the sheeple everything that is good and right, and let them reap the whirlwind.


....And it's a damn good plan, IMHO.  They want a boot on their throat?  Let them have it.  They want to trade away their freedoms so that corrupt politicians can more easily control them?  Give them what they want.  Isn't there anything kinder than giving someone their hearts desire?  Give them slavery, it's what they're asking for.  Give it to them by not stopping them from putting the leg irons on themselves.

NSFJojo, no flame, but you talk about preserving your freedom by leaving.  But this is not really possible.  The rest of the world falls into two categories: (1) lawless and poor oligarchic shitholes and (2) socialist oligarchic shitholes.  While we only maintain a semblence of freedom in the U.S., it is vastly better here than anywhere else in the world.  The rest of the world is a nice place to visit, but you would not want to live there.  Seriously.
Not mine.  At least I hope I exist for some greater purpose that merely existing, because that is ultimately futile.  I will die.  My existance is therefore only failure delayed.

Thinking is what defines our existance ("I think, therefore . . .").  If you follow what you are told without question, then you really have no independent existance.  If you have no will, you are not really human.  What defines a man is the ability to exercise will, to independently reject that which is abhorent to his thinking.  If you do everything that you are told, you are no better than a machine, without any control over your own destiny.  Of all the decisions every man must make, the most important is his, as you say, "object of life."   If the choice is mere existance and obedience to the will of others, like in Tom Daschle's America or one of the aforementioned oligarchic shitholes, you have really declined to make a choice and completely failed to exercise your will.  Your life therefore lacks an objective, and is pointless and not worth living.

In other words, some things are worth fighting for.  The United States, and the belief that people should be free, is one of them.

Politics makes strange bedfellows...

I wouldn't worry too much on this one.  There are considerable forces lining up against this.  As much as some of you loathe the ACLU, they are already locked and loaded on this one, and have it in their crosshairs for litigation.  Needless to say, they have a stellar record for shooting down this sort of legislation.  If, in the unlikely even it passes and Bush signs it into law, it will die the same quick death the Communications Decency Act (1996)did.  Before the ink was even dry on that one, they were spanking Janet Reno silly in the Eastern District of PA.  From what I've seen so far, this will never withstand Constitutional scrutiny, [i]nor was it designed to withstand Constitutional scrutiny[/i].  I think all the legislators involved know this steaming pile of legislative dung is DOA at the court's door, but its a political play by some members of Congress to look like they're "doing something" before the Congressional elections later this year.  They know it'll never work and that it'll be struck down, but they know campaign finance reform is an issue that plays well with the uninformed masses, and for the 2002 elections they want to use it as an issue against those members of Congress who are smart enough to know its not worth signing.  This is about politics, not constitutional rights.

Let it happen.
These f*ckers are getting impatient. They are abondoning incrimentalism and going for the all out ban. So let them do it.
People will see how crazy this law is. Then they will see that the NRA opposed it. More people will join our side.

So just sit tight, shut up, bury one or two of your guns in the yard, and wait.

Lot of good opinions here, the Constitution has been under attack almost since ratification, particularly the tenth amendment. Those of you in the anti-SHTF crowd, I say to you IT ALREADY HAS! I define SHTF as the day our Constitution was over thrown. I was born in '48, and the over throw happened long before that. Ask the jews when it happened to them, they'll tell you it was long before they were herded (like sheep) onto the cattle cars.... Could there be  "Unintended Consequences" just around the corner??

Bee losing OUR rights for quite a while now. The only people who have rights these days are criminals.

As much as it saddens me to say the following, this isn't the "begining" of the end for our once great Republic, It is more like the [b]middle of the end.[/b]

There is still time to turn the tide IMHO, but not much!  [V]




-Wayne Dennis Holt

I'm not sure who he is, but Mr. Holt's quote applies to this nation with alarming regularity!

I really find myself wondering how in the hell anyone thinks that this law could be enforced, and who would enforce it?  Will the editors and authors of magazines be jailed for articles written about a candidate?  Will a LEO arrest some one on the street corner passing out leaflets?  The scope of this law is so vast that no one in their right mind could possibly hope the enforece this law.  Oh, sorry we are talking about congress here, they are never in their right minds.  This will surely be struck down by SCOTUS.

The same mindset that enforces our idiotic gun and drug laws will gleefully do it for a govt (union) paycheck.........

Amen

|

Shaggy, you would clearly be a formidable opponent in court, as you clearly hit the nail on the head with the first shot, if you will pardon a badly mixed metaphor.  This is obviously a 'do something, even if it's wrong' piece of legislation that will not last long in the light of day.
 The initial statement still stands.  NSF Jojo, you are indeed a deep thinker and innovative.  I have no love lost for Joe or Mrs. either, but as already stated, where do you suggest we go?  Note the first Revolution was won with less than 3% of the population actively involved.  And if that fails, Lil' Ops has to have a country also.

The SCOTUS stood up, wiped its ass with the Florida State Supreme Court, and knocked some common sense into the "Gore/Daley Chicago-style election-theft" fiasco.  That averted an all-out Constitutional overthrow back then.

The SCOTUS struck down the "Line-item Veto" which Congress passed several years ago and several other highly publicized laws as well.

SCOTUS has no qualms about calling a spade a spade and giving the USCongress a good bitch-slapping when it deserves it.

The SCOTUS, like it or not, is the last bastion of Constitutional protection we have - short of armed revolt.

Given SCOTUS' history - I have no doubt it will uphold the Constitution and flush this blatantly Socialist power-grab down the same toilet as Al Gore and his hanging-dimpled-pregnant-fraudulent chads.

[b]NSFJojo[/b], you're quite misguided.  Where the hell are going to go?  Nowhere in this country once the Socialists take over that's for sure.  And once your gone, who's going to want to let a lilly-white educated man with a conservative paper trail back into this country?

If you want to start making a difference this is the only way...

Find out how all Congressmen voted on [url=http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2002&rollnumber=34]Campaign Finance Reform[/url] bill.

Don't know who your Representative is?  [url=http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.html]Find out here[/url] by zipcode.
This will also link you to their homepage so you can email them - "[b]Thanks, I support you and am sending you a check for this election![/b]" or "[b]I'm writing a check to your opponent. You just voted yourself out of office![/b]"

Stay up on all activities of the [url=http://www.house.gov/]US House of Representatives[/url].  Be a thorn in their side and $upport the opponents if they get out of line.  AND LET THEM KNOW YOU'RE SENDING MONEY TO THEIR OPPONENTS.  Money talks, bullshlit walks.

Freedom ain't free - it co$t$ more money than  just what you spend in gas money getting you to the polls.