45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
       

       


























































































































































































































































































































































 

Would quite what?

Did you mean quit?  As in, give up?

You know, I half way want the health care abortion to pass.  I dated several female doctors in the past, I hate all of them now, and I would take great enjoyment from their suffering and the destruction of their careers.

Of course, the downside is the dying early because of crappy healthcare part.

Whoops... yeah, it's a typo... I'm tired.  



Fixed... thanks.



 

It passes, I close my clinic.  Not an MD; I just deal with hearing loss and hearing aids.  I'll go back to doing something else.

There is no such thing as a labor shortage, only a refusal to pay wages adequate to meet demand.

I've worked with and personally known plenty of Physicians over the years.



They come in all types, I've seen my fair share of idiots, and I also seen a quite a few that were simply poor at business.



But I can guarantee you that if the money dries up worse than it already has –– and it will dry up significantly under obamacare –– every single one with even half a brain will jump ship and find another line of work.  Or retire.  



One thing they all have in common... They are well educated, well connected, and often have deep ties in their communities.  It will not be hard for them to quickly find another another way to earn income.

Sounds like BS. Quit and do what instead?

Join the sex industry (for the females)? They have the outfits already.

This.  The desire to quit will end when they realize that $200k jobs don't grow on trees.

"$30,000 a year you say?? USA here I come!!"

Unless they band together, gather up their resources, and create private clinics abroad, or even aboard ships just inside National waters.  I'm betting on starting private, cash only clinics in medical friendly countries.

I've posted before on this subject and I'll post it again:

I'm a volunteer FF/EMT-P.  I'm in college working on my BS in Chemistry.  I already have one BS.  I'm a medic in the ARNG, and I'll be applying to med school within the year.  I don't know that I'll go, even if I'm accepted.  I may just go through the Army's Interservice Physician Assistant Program program and do my 20 years.  By the time I finished with IPAP, I'd only have to work for another 13 years on active duty before I would be eligible for retirement at 45.  I wouldn't have any school debt and I'd start earning as soon as I went to school.

If I have to face $200,000 in costs for four years of med school while looking forward to being worked like a dog during residency and  making peanuts, postponing any sort of real earning potential another 8 possibly 9 years, when all the while facing a decline in earning potential, I'm going to say it isn't worth it.

I hope you like learning Spanish, Chinese, or Arabic so you can understand your third-world educated doctor.

Fuck you for wanting this.  

Even under a single-payer system, they would be free to not accept the government insurance scheme and continue practicing privately.

However, most doctors would use the government "insurance" because few doctors have the kind of market power to attract people who are willing to pay a premium for healthcare (and can afford it).  This is the way it is in Canada, which allows doctors to practice privately, under the condition that they cannot accept public money at all for any services rendered.  It's not worth the hassle in most cases, as you shut out a large portion of the market.  There are also even private hospitals in Canada.

People posting these unrealistic "rebel healthcare" scenarios are really ignorant of the fact that the vast majority of healthcare tourism is to places where healthcare is dramatically cheaper.  India, Singapore, Thailand, etc.  Seniors in America even go to Canada to buy drugs (blame Congress for preventing drug re-importation on that one) at the government's negotiated prices

Does the proposed health care plan (Obamacare) force Physician to take Health insurance?? My wife's OBGYN just informed us (and all her patients) that she will no longer accept any insurance plan and run a direct payment cash for services business. The practice is called a medical boutique. Patients pay $2000.00 per year plus other fees. In return doctors will provide for the patients immediate care, house calls, ER visits etc.

If doctors opt for this practice then we will definitely have a two tier system. I believe that Congress would be hesitant to stop this type of business since many themselves are members of private Medical boutiques.

That's what I'm talking about. Sign me up.

Not too quick, are ya?

No, Obamacare in a nutshell forces citizens to have health insurance, under threat of fines.  You will have to either have private insurance that meets certain standards or they are making a public insurance option.  If you cannot afford insurance (by the .gov's calculation), you will be given subsidies and a free choice of where to get insurance from.  The public option will be revenue neutral, so it will not have any subsidies that the private companies cannot get

It's basically a handout to health insurance companies

I know more than a few docs who simply will quit if this garbage becomes law.  These are leading men and women in their respective fields, too.

72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.

Wow, 25% of doctors are dumbasses.

Can't say I blame them.

I'd love to see how that 25% breaks down in terms of specialty and function.  Back when my dad was a chief resident, he had a resident under him who was insanely book smart, but inept with actual patients and lacking in common sense.  So the guy became a research physician of some kind.  So since 1982 the guy hasn't seen a single patient, but he's a "practicing doctor."  He has no first hand experience with insurance reimbursement, malpractice insurance, etc.  I can see how a man so divorced from the reality of medicine may be idealistically stupid.

Simple math kids.

Make a job worth less than the hassle and people will walk away in droves.

Malpractice insurance rates going through the roof are already doing that in many states.  A lot of Florida residents don't realize how close we were a few years ago to seeing a gigantic percentage of OB/GYNs pack up and leave the state.  The state's largest group of OBs "took a coordinated time off" for about a month at one point just to offset the cost of insurance.  One month taken off their insurance coverage cost the group less than one month of no income.

What the fuck...

I remember that.

It had to do with how the rates were actually lower for non-full time than full time practicioners.

Fucking nuts.





 

The thing is, how many of your physicians are near/at/past retirement age? How many would just say "Screw this - it's not worth the effort. I can retire." The only physicians that will stay in are those that are fresh out, those that want to recoup (some of) their investment, those that can charge what the market will bear (e.g. fee for service), and those that simply love to teach. Note this last group is generally your older physicians, and if they aren't allowed to actually practice medicine due to rationing, they might just say "fuck it" as well, as their conscience won't let them continue on under that philosophy.

FYI - here is the census data from 2000

Age
        25-34      35-44       45-54      55-64   (no data was given for those over 65, but they are likely dead or retired now)
        19.0%     35.4%      31.2%    14.3%

So today, 9 years later, how many are nearing retirement? Notice the drop off in the number of people entering the field? How much worse will this shortage be when applicants see they can't possibly justify the cost and time of schooling? The only choice our government will have is to ease restrictions on FMG's, and even then state licensing has to follow suit. Good luck seeing a doctor in the future, esp, if this crap passes.

For what it's worth, I'm 38, and finished my fellowship 5 years ago. I plan on continuing to work. However, if they cut my salary, they will get a decrease in productiviity. If they want to fire me because I'm not meeting "quota" - fine, try to find a replacement, and see what kind of quality you get. The old adage still applies "cheap, good, or fast - pick two." When I first started on this path 20 years ago (yes, I knew I wanted to be a physician since my last year in high school), I could not even conceive of how much our gov't could fuck up my career. I busted my ass to get to where I am, and I believe I should enjoy the fruits of my labor. For those who think that doctors are overpaid/too concerned about money - think about what it takes to become one and what the job actually entails. During the course of your work day, how many times do you have a chance to kill someone because of a mistake?

They are talking "unionizing" the health care workers..

I am considering going into anything besides what I do now..if this health care bill passes..
it is bad enough now with the way it is..Care is lacking under the private sector and will
be none-existant with gov in charge..

The VA is not the epitome of perfect health care, there are good people who work there, some of the finest, Vanderbilt Hospital is close to perfect health care.

If this health care bill passes everything is going to be the same..The Suck!

I have done quite a bit and have a DoD security clearance but I would have to think
long and hard before I went back into any kind of work that required me to have it..

Unless the money was right and I mean it would have to be Right..

I am thinking more along the lines of Pig and potato farmer but I'd be afraid they would
cut our water off..But I doubt that would happen in TN...

Indeed.

I recently had surgery for cancer and thankfully the surgeon was experienced and dedicated. At 61 years old, he is at the peak of his career.

When asked about ObamaCare, he said he would retire before he let the .gov interfere with his medical practice.

What a loss that would be.

It's always easy for the government to open the immigration window for doctors if we face a shortcoming.  Tons of Indian, Chinese, and Latin American doctors would love to come up here and bring their families.

I'm fucking amazed that we haven't done this already.  If doctors are really going to complain about government control, government can ease the artificial barriers it has set up for entering the medical field.

This will end real well...








"The red thing's connected to the...uh...I should know this..."



 

Quit...and do what? Early retirement only works for older guys.

Not a problem.  SEIU would take over healthcare and assign you an ACORN worker as your new "physician."  Bend over please ...

Who is Dr. John Galt?

Why not? This administration seems bent on removing from the economy as a whole about 50% of the jobs based on their present priorities, actions, and initiatives.

I think this is my favorite quote:  



"It's like giving everyone free bus passes, but there are only two
buses."



For those that say "quit and do what?"...  when the income stops being attractive, they will look for another job that will.  My father has been practicing Anesthesia for 40+ years and continues to do so.  He truly loves his profession.  He said if Obama passes the Health Care reform, he will retire.  Last I had checked, there were also a big shortage of anesthetists.  





Which makes me wonder... will doctors have their unions IF this Health Care Overhaul passes?  



 

Get ready for 3rd world hack MD's.

I told you guys before that my Eye, Ear Nose & throat doc said he will give up his practice and do only nose jobs
when commycare shows up. He would not be able to profit under that plan.

Exactly


They will bring over any MD from any country that wants to come here.

i will still practice...once I become a doc that is.   They had better not get the equivalent of illegal immigrants to do the work

ROFL...

I bet no more than 10% quit...if that many.

These are idle threats.

Atlas will Shrug.

Imagine the Government provided translators so you can communicate with your new,  free of charge healthcare professional.

Good idea

They won't be illegal.

There are 10's of thousands of doctors in other 3 rd world countries where their degree is not valid here.

Obama will fix that  

Quitting <> Consider quitting.  Misleading thread title.

Physicians wont quit.  But they sure wont work as hard either.  And what service is left will be gone.  And anything that is difficulty, risky or time consuming will be shipped off at best or postponed as long as possible.

You are running late?  No problem.  Take your time. We have a spot waiting for you at the end of the line.

Appointment time?  Hah!  First come, first served.  Need to be in line 30 minutes before we open the doors so we can see you today.

You need a CT scan?  Take this paper to this office, have a seat, they will get to you in an hour or so to tell you when to come back to sit in line again to get your scan.

You need a revision surgery?  Oh that is too hard for us to do here ( ie, not worth the hassle).  You will need to drive to ______, 140 miles away, and have it done at the medical center.  Better hurry, to beat the 6 month wait.





ETA
Also, when salaries are cut, many 'older' docs, about 55 or so  and older, will suddenly have disabling back pain and cash in on their disability policy, and take home more than they would under Obamacare's payment scheme.  

Plus, there are a hell of a lot of MDs that could retire tomorrow.  The only reason they dont is most MDs actually enjoy practicing medicine.  Obamacare gives them a reason to retire tomorrow.

Now you stop with all that Capitalist propaganda (reported to [email protected])




 

Don't forget the soon to be booming prescription drug smuggling business. Smuggle pot? Fuck that, Americans will be stocking up on Cipro and Amoxicillin.





 

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/is-your-doctor-getting-ready-to-shrug/



Is Your Doctor Getting Ready to Quit?
Posted By Paul Hsieh On September 18, 2009 @ 12:00 am In . Feature 01, Health, Legal, Money, Science & Technology, US News | 19 Comments

In a recent editorial [1] published by Investor’s Business Daily, associate editor (and PJTV.com [2] regular) Terry Jones revealed stunning poll data showing that 45 percent of American physicians “would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement” if Congress passed the proposed ObamaCare health legislation.

As a practicing physician, I’m not surprised. These numbers mirror the sentiments I’ve heard expressed by my professional colleagues. I’ve been in practice for over 15 years and I’ve never seen physician morale as low as it is today.

Older physicians have told me that they’re glad to be “getting out” and retiring soon. Medical students have asked me whether they should switch to engineering or pharmacology before it’s too late. Physicians in the middle of their careers are just hoping to survive any “reform.”

The same IBD poll also showed that an overwhelming majority (65 percent) of physicians were opposed to the proposed expansion of government in medicine. And they have every reason to be concerned, based on past experience.

One reason that many physicians are skeptical of the proposed “reform” is because they already know what government-run health care is like, in the form of Medicare. Medicare is “single-payer health care” for the elderly. Many proponents of universal health care want to create “Medicare for all,” claiming that it’s a model of efficient, compassionate care. But as the New York Times recently reported, more doctors are opting out of Medicare [3] (or limiting the number of Medicare patients they are willing to accept) for two simple reasons: “reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.”

Medicare reimbursements are so low that many physicians could not survive [4] if they relied solely on Medicare patients. Their patients with private insurance essentially subsidize their Medicare patients. Every time Congress passes another round of Medicare cuts, it merely worsens the problem as more doctors stop accepting new Medicare patients.

Physicians have also seen the problems in states such as Massachusetts that have attempted to implement universal health care, and the implications for the rest of the country.

The just-announced Baucus plan [5] is based closely on the Massachusetts plan, including mandatory insurance, subsidies for low-income residents, and strict new regulations on insurance companies specifying who they must cover, what benefits they must provide, and what prices they can charge. As a result, insurance costs have skyrocketed, raising the costs of the state subsidies. In response, the state government has cut back on its payments to physicians and hospitals.

Dr. Katherine Atkinson, a primary care physician practicing in Amherst, MA, told the New York Times [6]:

Every time I have a Medicaid patient, it’s like handing them a $20 bill when they leave. I never went into medicine to get rich, but I never expected to feel as disrespected as I feel. Where is the incentive for a practice like ours?

Because of perverse government incentives punishing physicians for taking patients covered by the state’s “public plan,” many patients face long waits for care — as much as a year for a routine physical exam in parts of Western Massachusetts. And this is despite the fact that Massachusetts “has the highest physician-to-population ratio of any state, in primary care as well as overall,” according to the New England Journal of Medicine [7]. Expanding the Massachusetts plan to the national level would merely multiply this problem by fifty.

Finally, physicians are concerned that universal health care will compromise their ability to practice according to their own best judgment and conscience.

President Obama’s “stimulus package” included $1 billion for “comparative effectiveness research” in health care. Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Harvard professor Martin Feldstein noted that the government’s eventual goal is to use this research to cut costs and ration medical care by “implementing a set of performance measures that all providers would adopt” and by “directly targeting individual providers … (and other) high-end outliers.”

In other words, your doctor would be rewarded if he practiced according to federal guidelines and punished if he strayed too far from them. Such guidelines must necessarily be based on statistical averages that cannot take into account specific facts of individual patients. But good physicians must consider precisely these specifics when treating their patients.

If you have abdominal pain due to gallstones, who should decide whether medication or surgery would be “most effective” for you? The doctor who felt your abdomen, heard your heart murmur, saw your ultrasound, and knows your drug allergies? Or the bureaucrat who got his job by telling the right joke to the right person at the right Washington cocktail party?

Most physicians I know aren’t in the field primarily for the money, although they do expect to be fairly compensated for a job that requires four years of college, four years of medical school, three to seven years of internship and residency, and often one (or more) years of additional specialty fellowship training.

They do it because they love their work, including the ability to apply those years of training to benefit their patients. They passionately want to use their skills according to their best medical conscience. To practice good medicine, a doctor must therefore be left free to use his reason, his experience, and his judgment — i.e., his mind. ObamaCare would destroy your physician’s willingness and ability to use his mind for your benefit.

If ObamaCare passes, some doctors will grit their teeth and still try to do their best for their patients. But they will have to waste hours arguing with bureaucrats, while their less conscientious colleagues can just punch a clock and go home. How long will the better doctors continue working under a system that constantly punishes them for their virtues? And when the good doctors finally retire or quit in frustration, what kind of doctors will remain?

In Ayn Rand’s classic novel Atlas Shrugged, one of the minor characters was surgeon Dr. Thomas Hendricks, who explained his reasons for “shrugging” and quitting medicine as follows:

I have often wondered at the smugness at which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind — yet what is it they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? … Let them discover the kind of doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, in the operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe, if he is the sort who doesn’t.

The policies of our current president and Congress have turned too much of Atlas Shrugged from fiction into fact [9]. The government has already assumed unprecedented control over the banking and automotive sectors of our economy. Health care is next in its sights.

If ObamaCare passes, thousands of doctors will follow the fictional Dr. Hendricks and shrug.

Will your doctor be one of them?

What you guys don't realize is that there are a substantial amount of physicians that are practicing well past retirement age.  They practice because they love doing what they do , not because they have to.  Take for example, my physician.  He is 72, attended med school at Columbia, completed residencies at John Hopkins and Vanderbilt.  I would hate to lose such a talented physician due to Obamacare, but I can't blame him one bit if he were to retire.  The other side of the coin is that U.S. trained doctors are in high demand.  My brother-in-law just finished a residency in ER medicine and was offered a position in UAE for $750k/year.  I don't believe 45% will walk, but I wouldn't be surprised if 25% did.  You think we have a shortage of docs now, just wait til Obamacare passes.  Third world healthcare, coming to a city near you

Health care is an industry.

Just like the American Automotive industry used to be.